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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Treefan on Tuesday 20 March 18 18:44 GMT (UK)
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Hi all, I have ancestors who lived in the St David parish of Devon in the 1800s.
There is a marriage that has eluded me between Susan Bradford & Patrick Francis Redmond which took place between 1871 & 1876. Susan & Patrick Redmond moved to live in Birmingham & upon his death I have just discovered that Patrick was buried within a Roman Catholic grave.
This being the case I wondered if he & Susan might have married in a Catholic church.
Could anyone help me please by advising me which Catholic churches are near to the parish of St David & where I might be able to apply for a search of the marriage records.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
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Can’t see the marriage on freebmd.
Have you found anything to confirm the marriage. Do you have any birth / death dates for them, or census entries?
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There is a death
Patrick Francis Redmond 40yrs
1881 March quarter, Aston vol 06d pg 165
1881 3013/90/16
Susan Redmond 27 yrs b Zeal Monachorum, Devon
Francis M. Redmond 6yrs b Exeter
William H. Redmond 4yrs b Birmingham
Fanny E. Redmond 2 yrs b Birmingham
What was Patrick’s occupation on the children’s birth certificates and his death certificate?
Francis was born Exeter so you would imagine that the marriage would be in Devon.
Patrick was a few years older than Susan, perhaps a previous marriage?
Heywood
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That info is correct. Patrick worked for the railways.
My ancestors births, deaths & marriages have all been within the registers of the Church of England so I was surprised to find that Patrick had been buried within the Catholic section of Witton cemetery in Birmingham. It was this new discovery that made me wonder if a marriage might have taken place within a Catholic church near to St David.
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There should still be a civil registration though. :-\
What was his job on the railways?
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I agree that there should have been a marriage entry for them in the index. I have just spent quite some time searching just in case there might have been a mis-transcription to no avail. Doesn't look as though they married after all it seems.
Many thanks all for trying to help though.
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Francis Michael and William Henry were registered with mother’s maiden name Bradford. Can’t find Fanny though ???
Possible marriage for Susan in June quarter 1881, in Aston.
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Found a baptism for Francis Michael Redmond, St Thomas, Devon on 7 July 1875, giving parents as Francis Michael and Susan Bessie Redmond, of Mares(?) Buildings, Francis a sawyer. Is this a mistake of the father’s name, or the wrong child?
Can’t see a Catholic marriage followed by a CofE baptism somehow.
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School entry for Francis, Exeter Episcopal School, in August 1884, dob 19 March 1875, naming Ch. Phillips as guardian. Previous school Military School in Dublin. Left Exeter in December 1884.
With Charles Phillips, recorded as his nephew, in 1891, in Exeter.
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Free BMD
Fanny Elizabeth Reymond December 1878 Aston 6d 307
Baptised 8th January 1879
St. Andrew, Bordesley, Warwickshire
Parents Francis Patrick Redmond and Susan.
William Henry was baptised at the same time.
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Francis Michael and William Henry were registered with mother’s maiden name Bradford. Can’t find Fanny though ???
Her baptism entry is listed as Fanny Elizabeth Reymond in error. Dec Qtr 1878 Aston Mother's maiden name Bradford
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All these pieces of info are correct ~ thank you all for looking for me.
I have amassed a collection of all of this info in my research and the only missing element is the marriage for Susan & Patrick Francis Redmond but it seems that it doesn't exist.
Thank you all for trying to help me though, I am very grateful to you all.
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School entry for Francis, Exeter Episcopal School, in August 1884, dob 19 March 1875, naming Ch. Phillips as guardian. Previous school Military School in Dublin. Left Exeter in December 1884.
With Charles Phillips, recorded as his nephew, in 1891, in Exeter.
Yes, this is the son of Susan. Charles Phillips was the husband of Susan's sister Fanny. He lived with his aunt & uncle until marrying in Devon before moving to Manchester where he worked for many years as a prison warder. He lived his latter years back in Devon where he died.
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Do you have records from the military school? I looked in indexes on FindMyPast but his name doesn’t show.
A few years ago, I recall seeing records for a child and am hoping there may be some somewhere for Francis.
I mean the Royal Hibernian Military School for orphaned children.
Patrick/Francis Redmond might have been a soldier.
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Unfortunately the Find My Past Records for the military school do not start until 1847 which is too late for Francis.
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I read it as son Francis attended the military school before he went to school in Exeter.
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Hi Treefan,
I live in Exeter. The only Catholic church near St David's is the Church of the Sacred Heart on South Street. However this wasn't built until 1883. Their site does say masses were held before this date though, so I'm not sure if there may have been any other services and/or if they have records? http://www.exetersacredheart.talktalk.net/church-of-the-sacred-heart.htm
Best wishes
Samuel
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That's correct ~ he was educated in Exeter between 1884 to 1886 when he left to start work.
I understand that his period at the military school in Dublin was between 1881 to early 1884.
It's amazing what records that I have been able to come across building up a wonderful & full picture of the lives of Susan & her offspring. My only gap was a marriage for Susan & Patrick Francis Redmond which obviously doesn't seem to exist.
I think that I should probably put this upon the back burner now going on to look at other parts of my tree.
Thank you all for for very kind help.
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Hi Treefan,
I live in Exeter. The only Catholic church near St David's is the Church of the Sacred Heart on South Street. However this wasn't built until 1883. Their site does say masses were held before this date though, so I'm not sure if there may have been any other services and/or if they have records? http://www.exetersacredheart.talktalk.net/church-of-the-sacred-heart.htm
Best wishes
Samuel
Thank you for that information Samuel which is most interesting.
I was likely clutching at straws I fear in the hope that a marriage might have been hidden away somewhere that I had not looked before.
Thank you.
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There may be no connection here to your family or you might have researched this one already. You write that you have amassed a collection of information.
However,
Michael Redmond married Jane Pike 1872, St Thomas Devon.
Michael is shown as born Dublin in a census and also a Chelsea Pensioner.
Children are born in various places which fit with army service.
I just wondered if there might be a connection to your Francis/Patrick but Redmond is a popular surname :)
Perhaps there was a barracks in Exeter.
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Gosh, that one had slipped by me without me seeing it.
As you say, it may just be a coincidence and have no real connection but it is most definitely something that I will look into.
Thank you for your sharp eyes! :)
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It is worth looking at even if you just discount it.
I would imagine that P F was in the army, if his son went to military school.
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I am on the case! :)
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Treefan, there where barracks near St. David’s, Higher Barracks where up behind the prison, now housing.
Barb
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Thank you so much for letting me know that, I am very grateful.
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There may be no connection here to your family or you might have researched this one already. You write that you have amassed a collection of information.
However,
Michael Redmond married Jane Pike 1872, St Thomas Devon.
Michael is shown as born Dublin in a census and also a Chelsea Pensioner.
Children are born in various places which fit with army service.
I just wondered if there might be a connection to your Francis/Patrick but Redmond is a popular surname :)
Perhaps there was a barracks in Exeter.
Hi, I just thought that you might appreciate an update along with my sincere thanks.
Thanks to your sharp eyes spotting the marriage between a Michael Redmond & Jane Pike I checked out their parish register marriage entry on which one of the witnesses was a P Redmond. Michael was shown to be a soldier & his father was named Patrick Redmond. I was able to follow Michael in other records which showed that he was a gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery & interestingly I discovered a Patrick Redmond who was also a gunner in the same regiment & they had consecutive regimental numbers. Michael's records showed that he was born in Dublin. The P Redmond who was a witness of Michael's marriage was able to sign the marriage entry & today I received a certificate of a child born to my Patrick & Susan Redmond of which the father was the informant and the two signatures are a match.
So, thank you so much for informing me of the Redmond/Pike marriage which has been a great find in my research.
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That is great news. I am so glad for you.
All good wishes
Heywood