RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: mickawinn on Thursday 22 March 18 16:09 GMT (UK)
-
I have the above born in 1923 in the Netherlands and marrying in1946 in Battersea. Can anyone direct me towards the Dutch records. I have tried Family Search.
-
Try www.wiewaswie.nl/en.
Search is in English; results are in Dutch!
-
You can also try http://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/onderzoek
Family trees here; https://gw.geneanet.org
Amsterdam; https://www.amsterdam.nl or
https://www.openarch.nl
You should be able to translate the pages to English
Happy Hunting
Carol
-
I can only find a “Gysherta M Tonnon” marrying an Alfred Cowen, so I’ve assumed that your “Totton” was a typo?
After a bit of digging, I managed to find a family card for the following couple in Rotterdam:
Antonius Petrus Tonnon ( born 11/1/1886 Delfshaven) X Hendrica Maria Hofstede (born 18/12/1890 Arnhem). Their marriage took place in Rotterdam on 22-05-1912 .
A Gijsberta Maria Tonnon (born 12/10(?)/1923 Rotterdam) is included on their card.
You can find the card here: http://www.stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/maisi_ajax_proxy.php?mivast=184&mizig=100&miadt=184&miaet=185&micode=494-03&minr=16978055&milang=en
Click on the picture for a better and downloadable image. The next image contains the various residences of the couple.
Note: If you want to keep these images, download them asap as these cards will most likely not be available in the very near future due to new European privacy laws.
Sylvia
-
If this is the correct person, she seems to go to Amsterdam in late May 1940 i.e. just after the bombing of Rotterdam.
In Nov 1940 she turns up in a place called Leeuwarden in the north of Holland. Here she marries a Cornelis Koning: https://www.wiewaswie.nl/nl/detail/print/55632248 . This marriage ends in divorce a few years later: "Huwelijk ontbonden 1 april 1943"
Newspaper notice: https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?query=%22gijsberta+Maria+tonnon%22&coll=ddd&identifier=MMKB08%3A000165234%3Ampeg21%3Aa0006&resultsidentifier=MMKB08%3A000165234%3Ampeg21%3Aa0006
-
Nice detective work, Sylvia! ;D
Goed so!
-
;D
-
Brilliant. Thanks a lot for your help. It was my fault over the surname as I obviously couldn’t read my own notes properly.
-
Just a thought, would any Korning children be in the records you researched?
-
Oops should of course be Koning.
-
A bit too recent for official Dutch records and I haven't been able to find anything in the newspapers ....
BTW what happened to Gijsberta after 1946?
Sylvia
-
She married again in 1946, had three children and died in 2016 at the age of 92. Thanks again for your help.
-
Thanks for that ...
I'd suspected the 3 children, but could not see anything else for her ...
BTW Let me know if you need any help interpreting the documents ...
-
Hi Sylvia
Sorry to bother you again but I have trawled the Rotterdam records, found three children or to her parents, one died at birth the other two after 2months but I cannot find Gysberta’s birth record. This is the site I have been using https://www.openarch.nl/search.php?name=Antonius+Petrus+Tonnon&lang=en Any clues as to where I can look next please?
-
Gijsberta's birth was less than 100 years ago, so her birth registration doco hasn't been released yet. That's why I gave you the link to her parents "bevolkingsregister" family card. And, it is because of "recent" data like Gysberta's that I'd warned you about downloading that card asap as the new European privacy laws will see those cards being removed in the not too distant future. (& it could be another 20-30 years before they become available again depending on whether the privacy period is extended from 100 to eg 105 or 110 years). I know of at least one archive that has already removed them, so Rotterdam could do the same any day now. BTW Older series of these registration cards should stay available ...
Note: I believe you can request a copy or extract of the birth certificate with proof of death, but I'm not familiar with this process.
cheers, Sylvia
-
Thanks Sylvia. I now realise that I only knew of the other two children because they died, no birth record. Thanks again for your guidance, I have made huge steps forward.
-
So you've found the birth certificate for Petrus Josephus Tonnon (1912)?
BTW Antonius Petrus Tonnon was born in 1916, so his birth certificate is allowed to be made public. However, it isn't online yet as archives tend to make batches of certificates available.
-
Re Petrus Josephus Tonnon. I didn’t find his birth I found his death record which showed his age as 2 months.
-
Also meant to say that I have found some birth records which have a remark recorded with variations of ‘recognition by parents’ with a date later than the birth date. Do you know what significance this is?
-
Sorry jumped the gun. I have just found the parents marriage several years after the births. I assume this is legitimising the births?
-
I'm a bit confused by this ‘recognition by parents’ as I cannot find Hendrica Maria Hofstede having children before 1912. Could you show me some examples ...
Here are some examples of actual certificates for this family:
Antonius Petrus Tonnon ( born 11/1/1886 Delfshaven) X Hendrica Maria Hofstede (born 18/12/1890 Arnhem, died 21-11-1929)
Marriage: 22-05-1912 Rotterdam
Marriage certificate: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-MXQD?i=854&cc=1576401
“Huwelijksbijlagen” = (Pre) Marriage documentation – 4 pages start here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939X-RD93-4H?i=2575&cc=1576401
Death Certificate (Hendrica): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9398-1RSQ-B1?i=2630&cc=1576401
Petrus Josephus Tonnon b 02-11-1912 Rotterdam, d 17-01-1913 Rotterdam
Birth Certificate: http://www.stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/maisi_ajax_proxy.php?mivast=184&mizig=100&miadt=184&miaet=185&micode=999-01&minr=25153117&milang=en
Death Certificate: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9398-1T3C-VN?i=209&cc=1576401
NN Tonnon ( NN = Nomen Nescio, generally used for stillborn children, death certificate only) d 19-11-1913
Death Certificate: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9398-1T3Y-4P?i=875&cc=1576401
-
Were you talking about Hendrica herself? The exctract of her birth certificate (in her 1912 "huwelijksbijlagen") mentions that she wasn't acknowledged until her parents marriage a few years later.
She was born as: Hendrika Maria de Lille in Arnhem (prov: Gelderland)
P.S.
1894 Marriage certificate of her parents: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9398-1R3D-VR?i=1751&cc=1576401 (3 daughters are being acknowledged)
The “Huwelijksbijlagen” start here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939X-P5BF-W?i=1375&cc=1576401 (image 1378 is the extract of Hendrica’s birth, image1382 is the birth extract for the Bride,who was also illegitimate)
-
Sorry Sylvia. In my rush of excitement I have been making great strides in getting back on both the TONNON and HOFSTEDE sides of the family. I have been downloading the records as I have gone along and have left myself a lot of work to examine them. My question about 'recognition' came about from this record. https://www.openarch.nl/show.php?archive=srt&identifier=db18060c-7675-bfb8-7aa3-f4fc8c706546
I think I have got the hang of it now. Thanks for all your help.
Mick
-
In 1817 Wouter van de Waal married Grietje Berendse at Zoelen. They recognized two children. The second child was Wouter's, however the first was not. The Juridification of Parenthood by Selma Sevenuijsen says, "Theoretically the person who recognizes the child should always be the natural father of the child, but in fact, probably a third to a half of such children were not brought up by their natural fathers." cb