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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 08:57 GMT (UK)

Title: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 08:57 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help me regarding a Charles John DONNE/DOUNE.

All I know about him is, he married a Bethia WATERS (maiden name KIDMAN) in Pancras, London 1872.

No idea of his age or who his parents were.

Any information would be very much appreciated.

cupcake
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: emeltom on Saturday 24 March 18 10:25 GMT (UK)
Can't find Charles at all at the moment.

RG10/1369/F19/p29
Walsworth Road, Hitchin, Herts
Bithia Waters 32 widow Independent. Income from Dividends. Edworth, Beds

Death
Bethia Donne Jun 1874 Bedford 3b 197 age 36

Sorry if you have this already.

Emeltom
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 10:43 GMT (UK)
He is elusive isn't he.

There's a Charles Doune 36 in 1881 builder and undertaker but down as unmarried.

Living Hendon Middlesex with widowed father Henry 66 and sister Harriott 29. 

Any children for Charles and Bethia before she passed away? 
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 10:47 GMT (UK)
Don't know if he is the right person but as you can imagine surname is transcribed in a variety of ways!

1871 - Downe
1861 - Danne
1851 - Sonne

Probably not actually as he has a middle name Jesse not John  :(
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: ColC on Saturday 24 March 18 10:48 GMT (UK)
On the 1881 census Charles J Downey 22 and his wife Bertha A 21 are at 39 Roderick Road, St Pancras. Charles is an engraver copper plate born St Pancras, Bertha born Cape, Surrey.
I know this seems unlikely but I have only seen a transcript, check original for ages.

Colin
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 10:56 GMT (UK)
Ages are quite readable at 22 and 21 so can't be them - especially if Bethia has died already  :(

Marriage for that couple Kensington 1880

Charles James Downey
Bertha Alice Bilham
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 11:01 GMT (UK)
He is elusive isn't he.

There's a Charles Doune 36 in 1881 builder and undertaker but down as unmarried.

Living Hendon Middlesex with widowed father Henry 66 and sister Harriott 29. 

Any children for Charles and Bethia before she passed away?

Yes, he is elusive. Have another spelling DOANE. As far as I know she had no children.

Bethia was married before, March 1866 but sadly her husband died October 1867. Six years later  she married Charles John  in 1872. A little information below:

... the body of a lady was found floating in the river Ouse at Bedford, and has been since identified as that of the missing Mrs. Doane. At the inquest held upon the body by Dr. Prior, at the Ship Hotel. Bedford, Mrs. Annie limes, a boarding-house keeper, ...

Hope to find out more regarding this tragic death. Bethia was only 36 years old.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 11:03 GMT (UK)
Oh gosh what a sad story  :(

There are a number of family trees with her on, haven't checked them all but so far they only have her first husband nothing about Charles.

I can't see the second marriage online unfortunately to find more information about him  :-\
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 11:04 GMT (UK)
Can't find Charles at all at the moment.

RG10/1369/F19/p29
Walsworth Road, Hitchin, Herts
Bithia Waters 32 widow Independent. Income from Dividends. Edworth, Beds

Death
Bethia Donne Jun 1874 Bedford 3b 197 age 36

Sorry if you have this already.

Emeltom

No, I haven't this. Thank you.

cupcake
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: emeltom on Saturday 24 March 18 11:08 GMT (UK)
Could be a possible sighting 1871 Census

RG10/1378/F136/p6

London Road, St Albans, Herts

John E Donne 53 Bath, Somerset
Mary Ann Donne wife 50 Monkton Nash Glamorgan
Charles J son 24 Maindy, Glamorgan
Augusta M dau 20 Luton, Beds
Alice M dau 17 Wrestlingworth, Beds
Oscar F son 12 Wrestlingworth
Lewis son 9 Wrestlingworth
Dinah Donne mother 84 Hanley, Staffs

Emeltom
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 11:08 GMT (UK)
Oh gosh what a sad story  :(

There are a number of family trees with her on, haven't checked them all but so far they only have her first husband nothing about Charles.

I can't see the second marriage online unfortunately to find more information about him  :-\

Yes it is sad and so young :'(.

I too have nothing on this Charles.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 11:09 GMT (UK)
Could be a possible sighting 1871 Census

RG10/1378/F136/p6

London Road, St Albans, Herts

John E Donne 53 Bath, Somerset
Mary Ann Donne wife 50 Monkton Nash Glamorgan
Charles J son 24 Maindy, Glamorgan
Augusta M dau 20 Luton, Beds
Alice M dau 17 Wrestlingworth, Beds
Oscar F son 12 Wrestlingworth
Lewis son 9 Wrestlingworth
Dinah Donne mother 84 Hanley, Staffs

Emeltom

Shall take a note of this. Thank you.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 11:13 GMT (UK)
Don't know if he is the right person but as you can imagine surname is transcribed in a variety of ways!

1871 - Downe
1861 - Danne
1851 - Sonne

Probably not actually as he has a middle name Jesse not John  :(

Another spelling perhaps DOANE
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 11:13 GMT (UK)
That's a good find.

Charles John Donne is a witness to the marriage of Alice in 1891 so he should be around to see if he is a widower.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 11:14 GMT (UK)
On the 1881 census Charles J Downey 22 and his wife Bertha A 21 are at 39 Roderick Road, St Pancras. Charles is an engraver copper plate born St Pancras, Bertha born Cape, Surrey.
I know this seems unlikely but I have only seen a transcript, check original for ages.

Colin

Thank you..
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 24 March 18 11:18 GMT (UK)
Her body was found in the River Ouse at Bedford, with considerable cash (some £17) on her but a watch and brooch mysteriously missing, on the evening of 4 April 1874.

Themes from the lengthy inquest report in the Bedfordshire Mercury, 11 April 1874:

Immediately before her death she had been lodging with a Mrs Anne Innes  at 15 Jewin Crescent, Aldersgate St, London. She had confided in Mrs Innes of “ill-use” by her husband, who had taken up cohabiting with a young girl of their acquaintance.

Other witnesses said she had seemed depressed and had a drinking habit.  Her first husband George Waters had died on 1 September 1864, aged 66, and she kept his memorial card among her possessions.  A police officer testified that she had previously been found asleep on the ground at Biggleswade (after drinking) on 16 March 1874. 

She had never had children and the post mortem revealed kidney and uterine disease as well as gallstones.

She had married Charles John Donne of London at St Pancras register office - they had moved to Hemel Hempstead and then back to London.  He had no occupation and lived on her money.  They had separated in July 1873, and a solicitor was instructed to draw up a separation deed (though this does not seem to have been done by the time of her death).  Her solicitor had her address as 56 Aldersgate St.

Verdict: Found drowned.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 11:18 GMT (UK)
Charles possibly married to an Emily in 1881 with 5 young children? 

He could have remarried quickly, very quickly as the oldest child is 7 so that doesn't seem to fit either.

Checked a couple of the children and mothers maiden name Chapman
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 24 March 18 11:22 GMT (UK)
To avoid duplication, information on Bethia and her death
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=789815.27
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: emeltom on Saturday 24 March 18 11:23 GMT (UK)
Another possibility
1881
RG11/315/F40/p27
22 Queen Anne Road, Hackney
Charles Donne 34 Appraiser Cowbridge, Glamorgan
Emily wife 26 Petersfield, Hants
John son 7 Portishead, Somerset
William son 6 City of London
Maud 4 City of London
Beatrice 2 City of London
Mary 0 City of London

I have found all the births except John and mmn Chapman but I can't find a marriage.

Emeltom
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 11:25 GMT (UK)
Yes that's the family I'm looking at too.  No marriage.  Maybe Emily was the young girl of their acquaintance he had taken up cohabiting with  :-X

They stay together and have a lot of children.

Wonder if the marriage was later on?  Not quite right but there is a 1906 marriage in Stepney with these candidates
Emily Chapman
Jane Cohen
Charles Thomas Donne
Joseph Pollockoff

Or it could be the wrong Charles anyway  :-\

I don't think we're going to know without the 1872 marriage to get his fathers name etc to cross reference with this chap.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 24 March 18 11:46 GMT (UK)
Birth reg (do we already have this?) of the candidate found is here:

Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne, mmn Donne, Mar qtr 1847 Bridgend.

His younger brother Oscar’s Mar qtr 1859 birth reg confirms mmn Donne.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 12:12 GMT (UK)
Her body was found in the River Ouse at Bedford, with considerable cash (some £17) on her but a watch and brooch mysteriously missing, on the evening of 4 April 1874.

Themes from the lengthy inquest report in the Bedfordshire Mercury, 11 April 1874:

Immediately before her death she had been lodging with a Mrs Anne Innes  at 15 Jewin Crescent, Aldersgate St, London. She had confided in Mrs Innes of “ill-use” by her husband, who had taken up cohabiting with a young girl of their acquaintance.

Other witnesses said she had seemed depressed and had a drinking habit.  Her first husband George Waters had died on 1 September 1864, aged 66, and she kept his memorial card among her possessions.  A police officer testified that she had previously been found asleep on the ground at Biggleswade (after drinking) on 16 March 1874. 

She had never had children and the post mortem revealed kidney and uterine disease as well as gallstones.

She had married Charles John Donne of London at St Pancras register office - they had moved to Hemel Hempstead and then back to London.  He had no occupation and lived on her money.  They had separated in July 1873, and a solicitor was instructed to draw up a separation deed (though this does not seem to have been done by the time of her death).  Her solicitor had her address as 56 Aldersgate St.

Verdict: Found drowned.

It is such a sad & tragic story and you have given me this information I knew nothing about. Will put this  with my little snippets.


Thank so much.

cupcake
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 12:27 GMT (UK)
Yes that's the family I'm looking at too.  No marriage.  Maybe Emily was the young girl of their acquaintance he had taken up cohabiting with  :-X

They stay together and have a lot of children.

Wonder if the marriage was later on?  Not quite right but there is a 1906 marriage in Stepney with these candidates
Emily Chapman
Jane Cohen
Charles Thomas Donne
Joseph Pollockoff

Or it could be the wrong Charles anyway  :-\

I don't think we're going to know without the 1872 marriage to get his fathers name etc to cross reference with this chap.

Does seem odd there a no marriage records for this Charles John DONNE/DOUNE in 1872.

Perhaps Emily was the young girl of their acquaintance he had taken up cohabiting with - will probably never know.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 12:30 GMT (UK)
Birth reg (do we already have this?) of the candidate found is here:

Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne, mmn Donne, Mar qtr 1847 Bridgend.

His younger brother Oscar’s Mar qtr 1859 birth reg confirms mmn Donne.

Until we find his marriage we will never know.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 12:33 GMT (UK)

I just think if Bethia had stayed with her brother, she would have lived beyond 36 years. Will never know.

cupcake
 
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 24 March 18 12:35 GMT (UK)
I don’t understand what you mean by “no marriage record”.  The index details for the 1872 marriage are easily found on FreeBMD.  To find out more you will need to use them to order the certificate from the GRO.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 12:45 GMT (UK)
I don’t understand what you mean by “no marriage record”.  The index details for the 1872 marriage are easily found on FreeBMD.  To find out more you will need to use them to order the certificate from the GRO.

My apologies, having a senior moment.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 24 March 18 13:05 GMT (UK)
No worries  :)

Do update if you get the certificate.  Bethia’s story has been an interesting and sad one to discover.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 13:21 GMT (UK)
No worries  :)

Do update if you get the certificate.  Bethia’s story has been an interesting and sad one to discover.

Will certainly update you all.

I somehow thought the GRO only had birth and death records -  Births: 1837 –1917
Deaths: 1837 –1957.

cupcake
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: emeltom on Saturday 24 March 18 13:31 GMT (UK)
Marriages can be found on FreeBMD and also on other sites - Ancestry, FindMyPast, fs etc

Emeltom
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 13:37 GMT (UK)
Marriages can be found on FreeBMD and also on other sites - Ancestry, FindMyPast, fs etc

Emeltom

Thank you. Will visit my local library next week, where I access Ancestry.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 24 March 18 13:43 GMT (UK)
Ancestry won’t give you any better information on this than you can find now, for free, on FreeBMD:

www.freebmd.org.uk

And for ordering certificates, here is a link to the GRO Online:

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 16:32 GMT (UK)
Ancestry won’t give you any better information on this than you can find now, for free, on FreeBMD:

www.freebmd.org.uk

And for ordering certificates, here is a link to the GRO Online:

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

 Think I may have found Bethia WATERS marriage to Charles DOUNE for 1872 on Family Search - but not on Free BMD.

Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 24 March 18 16:36 GMT (UK)
It's on there under

Bethia Waters
Charles John Doune

Jun 1872 Pancras 1b 280
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 24 March 18 16:56 GMT (UK)
It's on there under

Bethia Waters
Charles John Doune

Jun 1872 Pancras 1b 280

I am really having a bad day missing these entries. Need to stop and some tea.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cuffie81 on Saturday 24 March 18 17:53 GMT (UK)
Her first husband George Waters had died on 1 September 1864, aged 66, and she kept his memorial card among her possessions.

She had married Charles John Donne of London at St Pancras register office - they had moved to Hemel Hempstead and then back to London.  He had no occupation and lived on her money.

It may just be discrepancies in the newspaper articles but at least one states the "mourning card" was for Bethia's father, George, who died in 1866, rather than her husband.

Also, in at least one article it states that both Bethia and Charles were of independent means and that Charles did not live on Bethia's money.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 24 March 18 20:18 GMT (UK)
Her first husband George Waters had died on 1 September 1864, aged 66, and she kept his memorial card among her possessions.

She had married Charles John Donne of London at St Pancras register office - they had moved to Hemel Hempstead and then back to London.  He had no occupation and lived on her money.

It may just be discrepancies in the newspaper articles but at least one states the "mourning card" was for Bethia's father, George, who died in 1866, rather than her husband.

Also, in at least one article it states that both Bethia and Charles were of independent means and that Charles did not live on Bethia's money.

Yes these articles are not always very reliable (though in this case the mourning card discrepancy may have been my error - I can’t immediately find the edition I first looked at - in which case apologies).

George Waters had in fact died (according to his probate record) at Stevenage on 16 December 1867.  His death registration at Hitchin gives his age as 29.  Administration of his estate of under £600 was granted to his widow Bithiah Waters of Stevenage.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Sunday 25 March 18 10:59 BST (UK)
Her first husband George Waters had died on 1 September 1864, aged 66, and she kept his memorial card among her possessions.

She had married Charles John Donne of London at St Pancras register office - they had moved to Hemel Hempstead and then back to London.  He had no occupation and lived on her money.

It may just be discrepancies in the newspaper articles but at least one states the "mourning card" was for Bethia's father, George, who died in 1866, rather than her husband.

Also, in at least one article it states that both Bethia and Charles were of independent means and that Charles did not live on Bethia's money.

Yes you are correct regarding the mourning card - it was Bethia's father's card which appears to be an error in the paper:
Bethia's possessions  included a mourning card, "Sacred to the memory of George Kidman, of Edworth, Beds, died Sep 1st, 1864, aged 66 years"


Can't comment on Bethia and Charles being of independent means and that Charles did not live on Bethia's money.

cupcake
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Monday 26 March 18 08:36 BST (UK)
No worries  :)

Do update if you get the certificate.  Bethia’s story has been an interesting and sad one to discover.

Have ordered the marriage certificate and will update you all. Yes, it has been interesting and sad.

cupcake
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Monday 26 March 18 18:47 BST (UK)
No worries  :)

Do update if you get the certificate.  Bethia’s story has been an interesting and sad one to discover.

Have ordered the marriage certificate and will update you all. Yes, it has been interesting and sad.

cupcake

I have read the very lengthy and, most detailed story about the tragic drowning. You wouldn't get that in today's papers.

cupcake
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cuffie81 on Monday 26 March 18 23:06 BST (UK)
A few more references (which probably aren't all correct) for the Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne that others have posted about. I'll include the references already posted just to make things easier to follow.

John, the father of this Charles, had various occupations: police officer (1851), national school master (1861) and and accountant (1871). So it'll be interesting to see if the details on the marriage certificate tallies with any of this.


GRO BMD references:
1843 Q2 Marriage: John Edward Donne and Mary Anne Donne; Cardiff; 26; 592
1843 Q3 Birth: Rosina Mary Donne (mmn: Donne); Bristol; 11; 158
1847 Q1 Birth: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne (mmn: Donne); Bridgend And Cowbridge; 26; 364
1848 Q1 Birth: Mary Ann Donne (mmn: Donne); Cardiff; 26; 376
1850 Q3 Birth: Agusta Mary Donne (mmn: Donne); Luton; 06; 111
1853 Q2 Birth: Hadassah Victoria Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 324
1854 Q2 Birth: Alice Margaret Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 331
1858 Q1 Birth: Eliza Donne (mmn: Donne); Manchester; 08d; 201
1859 Q1 Birth: Oscar Francis Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 359
1862 Q1 Birth: Lewis William Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 345
1864 Q2 Birth: - Donne (F) (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 340

1881 Q1 Death: John Donne; age 63 (born c1818); Hackney; 01b; 343
1883 Q1 Death: Mary Ann Donne; age 62 (born c1821); Hackney; 01b; 397

1925 Q4 Death: Emily Donne; age 71 (born c1854); St. Ives; 03b; 298
1927 Q1 Death: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne; age 82 (born c1845); West Ham; 04a; 106

1906 Q1 Marriage: Charles Thomas Donne and Emily Chapman; Stepney; 01c; 400 [?]
1874 Q2 Birth: Charles John Chapman Donne (mmn: Chapman); Bedminster; 05c; 770
1875 Q2 Birth: William Oscar Francis Donne (mmn: Chapman); Mile End Old Town; 01c; 559
1877 Q2 Birth: Maude Emily Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 499
1879 Q2 Birth: Beatrice Gertrude Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 586
1881 Q2 Birth: May Violet Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 588
1883 Q2 Birth: Mary Elizabeth Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 535
1885 Q4 Birth: Lilian Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 520
1889 Q4 Birth: Alice Irene Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 87
1889 Q4 Birth: Augusta Marguerite Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 87
1890 Q2 Birth: Eva Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 134
1892 Q1 Birth: Alfred Edward Victor Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 68
1894 Q3 Birth: Cyril Arthur Claud Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 162

1903 Q2 Marriage: John Charles C Donne and Mabel Louise Dendy; Greenwich; 01d; 1861
1906 Q1 Marriage: Mary Elizabeth Donne and Arthur Edward Plumb; West Ham; 04a; 143
1906 Q1 Marriage: Maud Emily Donne and James Robinson; West Ham; 04a; 143
1906 Q2 Marriage: May Violet Donne and Frederick Digby Aldous; West Ham; 04a; 135
1924 Q3 Death: Frederick Digby Aldous; age 53 (born c1871); West Ham; 04a; 23


Censuses:
1851 Northill, Beds
Charles with parents John and Mary
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 93; Page 5;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGB8-7NM

1861 Wrestlingworth, Beds
Charles with parents John and Mary
Ref RG09; Piece 995; Folio 95; Page 27;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7TX-59J

1871 St Albans, Herts
Charles with parents John and Mary
Ref RG10; Piece 1378; Folio 136; Page 6;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VF6J-QMQ

1881 Hackney, London
Mother Mary Ann, widowed
Ref RG11; Piece 315; Folio 40; Page 28;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-TKYL

1881 Hackney, London
Charles and Emily
Ref RG11; Piece 315; Folio 40; Page 27;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-TKN7

1891 West Ham, Essex
Charles and Emily
Ref RG12; Piece 1328; Folio 141; Page 39;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLHH-M6Z

1901 West Ham, Essex
Charles and Emily
Ref RG13; Piece 1587; Folio 85; Page 16;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9NL-2NZ

1911 West Ham, Essex
Charles and Emily
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXT-FFB


Baptism:
name: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne
baptised: 02 Jul 1852; Wrestlingworth
father: John Edward
mother: Mary Anne
born: 29 Jan 1847
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1BZ-H1S


Probate index:
Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne
1927
of St Ives Road Houghton Huntingdonshire
died 27 March 1927 at 10 Valetta Grove Plaistow Essex
Probate Peterborough 17 May to Maud Robinson (wife of James Robinson) and May Violet Aldous widow
Effects: £97
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Donne&yearOfDeath=1927#calendar

Maud Robinson and May Violet Aldous appear to be Charles' daughters (see GRO marriage references above).


Probate index:
Frederick Digby Aldous
1924
of 30 Elmhurst-road Forest Gate Essex
died 3 July 1924
Administration London 4 September
to Violet May Aldous widow
Effects: £208 7s 7d
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Aldous&yearOfDeath=1924#calendar
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cuffie81 on Monday 26 March 18 23:57 BST (UK)
The National Archives hold a couple of documents re. Bethia and Charles' separation.

Cause number: 1874 H130. Short title: Hooper v Donne. Documents: Bill
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7916484

Cause: Hooper v Donne Papers relating to separation of Charles John Donne and Bethiah
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3579579
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 27 March 18 09:14 BST (UK)
A few more references (which probably aren't all correct) for the Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne that others have posted about. I'll include the references already posted just to make things easier to follow.

John, the father of this Charles, had various occupations: police officer (1851), national school master (1861) and and accountant (1871). So it'll be interesting to see if the details on the marriage certificate tallies with any of this.


GRO BMD references:
1843 Q2 Marriage: John Edward Donne and Mary Anne Donne; Cardiff; 26; 592
1843 Q3 Birth: Rosina Mary Donne (mmn: Donne); Bristol; 11; 158
1847 Q1 Birth: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne (mmn: Donne); Bridgend And Cowbridge; 26; 364
1848 Q1 Birth: Mary Ann Donne (mmn: Donne); Cardiff; 26; 376
1850 Q3 Birth: Agusta Mary Donne (mmn: Donne); Luton; 06; 111
1853 Q2 Birth: Hadassah Victoria Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 324
1854 Q2 Birth: Alice Margaret Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 331
1858 Q1 Birth: Eliza Donne (mmn: Donne); Manchester; 08d; 201
1859 Q1 Birth: Oscar Francis Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 359
1862 Q1 Birth: Lewis William Donne (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 345
1864 Q2 Birth: - Donne (F) (mmn: Donne); Biggleswade; 03b; 340

1881 Q1 Death: John Donne; age 63 (born c1818); Hackney; 01b; 343
1883 Q1 Death: Mary Ann Donne; age 62 (born c1821); Hackney; 01b; 397

1925 Q4 Death: Emily Donne; age 71 (born c1854); St. Ives; 03b; 298
1927 Q1 Death: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne; age 82 (born c1845); West Ham; 04a; 106

1906 Q1 Marriage: Charles Thomas Donne and Emily Chapman; Stepney; 01c; 400 [?]
1874 Q2 Birth: Charles John Chapman Donne (mmn: Chapman); Bedminster; 05c; 770
1875 Q2 Birth: William Oscar Francis Donne (mmn: Chapman); Mile End Old Town; 01c; 559
1877 Q2 Birth: Maude Emily Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 499
1879 Q2 Birth: Beatrice Gertrude Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 586
1881 Q2 Birth: May Violet Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 588
1883 Q2 Birth: Mary Elizabeth Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 535
1885 Q4 Birth: Lilian Donne (mmn: Chapman); Hackney; 01b; 520
1889 Q4 Birth: Alice Irene Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 87
1889 Q4 Birth: Augusta Marguerite Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 87
1890 Q2 Birth: Eva Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 134
1892 Q1 Birth: Alfred Edward Victor Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 68
1894 Q3 Birth: Cyril Arthur Claud Donne (mmn: Chapman); West Ham; 04a; 162

1903 Q2 Marriage: John Charles C Donne and Mabel Louise Dendy; Greenwich; 01d; 1861
1906 Q1 Marriage: Mary Elizabeth Donne and Arthur Edward Plumb; West Ham; 04a; 143
1906 Q1 Marriage: Maud Emily Donne and James Robinson; West Ham; 04a; 143
1906 Q2 Marriage: May Violet Donne and Frederick Digby Aldous; West Ham; 04a; 135
1924 Q3 Death: Frederick Digby Aldous; age 53 (born c1871); West Ham; 04a; 23


Censuses:
1851 Northill, Beds
Charles with parents John and Mary
Ref HO107; Piece 1753; Folio 93; Page 5;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGB8-7NM

1861 Wrestlingworth, Beds
Charles with parents John and Mary
Ref RG09; Piece 995; Folio 95; Page 27;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7TX-59J

1871 St Albans, Herts
Charles with parents John and Mary
Ref RG10; Piece 1378; Folio 136; Page 6;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VF6J-QMQ

1881 Hackney, London
Mother Mary Ann, widowed
Ref RG11; Piece 315; Folio 40; Page 28;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-TKYL

1881 Hackney, London
Charles and Emily
Ref RG11; Piece 315; Folio 40; Page 27;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-TKN7

1891 West Ham, Essex
Charles and Emily
Ref RG12; Piece 1328; Folio 141; Page 39;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLHH-M6Z

1901 West Ham, Essex
Charles and Emily
Ref RG13; Piece 1587; Folio 85; Page 16;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9NL-2NZ

1911 West Ham, Essex
Charles and Emily
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXT-FFB


Baptism:
name: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne
baptised: 02 Jul 1852; Wrestlingworth
father: John Edward
mother: Mary Anne
born: 29 Jan 1847
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1BZ-H1S


Probate index:
Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne
1927
of St Ives Road Houghton Huntingdonshire
died 27 March 1927 at 10 Valetta Grove Plaistow Essex
Probate Peterborough 17 May to Maud Robinson (wife of James Robinson) and May Violet Aldous widow
Effects: £97
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Donne&yearOfDeath=1927#calendar

Maud Robinson and May Violet Aldous appear to be Charles' daughters (see GRO marriage references above).


Probate index:
Frederick Digby Aldous
1924
of 30 Elmhurst-road Forest Gate Essex
died 3 July 1924
Administration London 4 September
to Violet May Aldous widow
Effects: £208 7s 7d
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Aldous&yearOfDeath=1924#calendar

You have been busy and will me going for a while  :).
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 27 March 18 09:15 BST (UK)
The National Archives hold a couple of documents re. Bethia and Charles' separation.

Cause number: 1874 H130. Short title: Hooper v Donne. Documents: Bill
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7916484

Cause: Hooper v Donne Papers relating to separation of Charles John Donne and Bethiah
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3579579

These could be interesting. Thank you.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 27 March 18 09:30 BST (UK)
Description:   
Cause number: 1874 H130.

Short title: Hooper v Donne.

Documents: Bill, interrogatories, answer, replication, deposition.

Plaintiffs: Thomas James Hooper.

Defendants: John Edward Donne, Charles John Donne, George Kidman, Marion Kidman, Elizabeth Kidman, Isabel Kidman, William Thomas Kidman and Edward Kidman.

Amendments: Amended by order 1874. Edith Kidman added as defendant.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks as if the KIDMAN family are wanting answers.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 27 March 18 09:41 BST (UK)
No worries  :)

Do update if you get the certificate.  Bethia’s story has been an interesting and sad one to discover.

Have ordered the marriage certificate and will update you all. Yes, it has been interesting and sad.

cupcake

Just a thought regarding Charles DONNE parents-  the English marriage certificates only give the father's name not the mother's.   Scottish certificates do and, much more.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: johnP-bedford on Tuesday 27 March 18 09:49 BST (UK)
The Beds Archives online database throws up 8 results if you search for person = Donne & words from content = Kidman including fact that .....  Charles John Donne of Roydon, Essex and Bethiah his wife (formerly Waters, widow) (old mortgagees) (Donne married 6 May 1872)

Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 27 March 18 10:04 BST (UK)
The Beds Archives online database throws up 8 results if you search for person = Donne & words from content = Kidman including fact that .....  Charles John Donne of Roydon, Essex and Bethiah his wife (formerly Waters, widow) (old mortgagees) (Donne married 6 May 1872)

Thank you.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 16:08 BST (UK)
No worries  :)

Do update if you get the certificate.  Bethia’s story has been an interesting and sad one to discover.

Have ordered the marriage certificate and will update you all. Yes, it has been interesting and sad.

cupcake

I have read the very lengthy and, most detailed story about the tragic drowning. You wouldn't get that in today's papers.

cupcake

Have received  Bethia & Charles's marriage certificate. Not sure whether it helps, as it doesn't give his mother's name. It says Charles was a Gentleman (that's a new one on me).
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 03 April 18 16:11 BST (UK)
It was never going to give the mother's name - English marriage certificates don't.

But - good stuff in there.  Two Donne witnesses! Cuffie's very comprehensive reply #40 now comes into its own:

John E Donne - presumably his father, John Edward
Augusta M Donne - presumably his sister "Agusta" Mary b 1850

Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 16:18 BST (UK)
Could be a possible sighting 1871 Census

RG10/1378/F136/p6

London Road, St Albans, Herts

John E Donne 53 Bath, Somerset
Mary Ann Donne wife 50 Monkton Nash Glamorgan
Charles J son 24 Maindy, Glamorgan
Augusta M dau 20 Luton, Beds
Alice M dau 17 Wrestlingworth, Beds
Oscar F son 12 Wrestlingworth
Lewis son 9 Wrestlingworth
Dinah Donne mother 84 Hanley, Staffs

Emeltom

Could these be his family with the name Augusta M  who I think  was a witness :-\
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 03 April 18 16:21 BST (UK)
Yes - as I say this looks pretty clearly to be the family.  Cuffie at reply #40 has linked to the Familysearch transcription of this 1871 census entry with John's occupation shown as "accountant" - another match to the paternal details given in the marriage certificate.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 16:24 BST (UK)
It was never going to give the mother's name - English marriage certificates don't.

But - good stuff in there.  Two Donne witnesses! Cuffie's very comprehensive reply #40 now comes into its own:

John E Donne - presumably his father, John Edward
Augusta M Donne - presumably his sister "Agusta" Mary b 1850

It certainly appears to be.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 16:27 BST (UK)


Yes indeed with  Cuffie's very comprehensive reply #40 now comes into its own.
 
The marriage certificate tallies with #40. Well done

Thanks cuffie.

cupcake

Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 16:54 BST (UK)
GRO BMD references:
1843 Q2 Marriage: John Edward Donne and Mary Anne Donne; Cardiff; 26; 592
1843 Q3 Birth: Rosina Mary Donne (mmn: Donne); Bristol; 11; 158
1847 Q1 Birth: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne (mmn: Donne); Bridgend And Cowbridge; 26; 364

Am I right in thinking the Charles above b. 1847 was married to Bethia WATERS.

This may be his death:
 
1927 Q1 Death: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne; age 82 (born c1845); West Ham; 04a; 106



Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 03 April 18 18:11 BST (UK)
Yes that looks bang on.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 18:31 BST (UK)
Yes that looks bang on.

I notice on Family Search Charles's mother's father was Thomas DONNE. On Charles's marriage certificate, his Rank or Profession was Gentleman, never seen this one before -  can I assume he didn't work .
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: emeltom on Tuesday 03 April 18 18:41 BST (UK)
Don't count on it. On his marriage cert my gt gt grandfather gave his father's rank/profession as Gentleman. Turns out, after further reseasch, that he was a servant. Do not believe all you read, sometimes it's only there to try and impress.

Emeltom
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 19:05 BST (UK)
Don't count on it. On his marriage cert my gt gt grandfather gave his father's rank/profession as Gentleman. Turns out, after further reseasch, that he was a servant. Do not believe all you read, sometimes it's only there to try and impress.

Emeltom

Thank you for that. I certainly will take things with a pinch of salt. You could be right, perhaps he was trying to impress, with his four names.From what I know, he was no Gentleman. He certainly lived a lot longer than his wife.

Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Tuesday 03 April 18 19:18 BST (UK)

 This has been the saddest and yet, interesting ancestor research I have done.

Many thanks to everyone for all your help.

cupcake

Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cuffie81 on Wednesday 04 April 18 17:40 BST (UK)
One more interesting bit about the Donnes is that it looks like Charles' grandparents were John and Dinah, and that John was a vicar at Houghton Regis at the time of his death in 1846.

Dinah is with son John, and his wife Mary Ann, on the 1871 census that we've already posted.

Bedfordshire Mercury
01 August 1846
Deaths
On Monday last, the Rev John Donne, Vicar of Houghton Regis, near Dunstable.

There are a number of references to John in the Beds. Archives.

So it looks like Charles came from the sort of respectable family that Bethia would marry in to, what with the Kidmans being well-to-do.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Wednesday 04 April 18 18:42 BST (UK)
One more interesting bit about the Donnes is that it looks like Charles' grandparents were John and Dinah, and that John was a vicar at Houghton Regis at the time of his death in 1846.

Dinah is with son John, and his wife Mary Ann, on the 1871 census that we've already posted.

Bedfordshire Mercury
01 August 1846
Deaths
On Monday last, the Rev John Donne, Vicar of Houghton Regis, near Dunstable.

There are a number of references to John in the Beds. Archives.

So it looks like Charles came from the sort of respectable family that Bethia would marry in to, what with the Kidmans being well-to-do.

cuffie, You have have given me so much information, all of which is very much appreciated. It would appear Charles came from a respectable family. Yes, the Kidmans were well-to-do. I remember my mother saying they all worked very hard, to get where there they did.

I see Charles's mother Mary Anne was born in Monkton Nash, Glamorgan as was Charles born in Wales.Wonder where Charles got the names Charles & Jenkins from  :-\

Thank you again :D
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Thursday 05 April 18 08:34 BST (UK)

Would also like to find information on Charles's mother, Mary Anne DONNE born in Wales - if I am right, on Family Search, Mary Anne's father was Thomas DONNE.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Sunday 08 April 18 08:16 BST (UK)
Came across this 1911 census. This was just a year after Bethia & Charles were married in 1872 and a year after Bethia drowned 1874.

On ancestry, it says he married a Emily Chapman aged 18 years old.I doubt whether they married. If she was 54 in 1911 she must have been 16, 38 years earlier.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXT-FFB

Moderator comment: 1911 census image removed. Link to free transcription at FamilySearch posted instead.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Sunday 08 April 18 09:21 BST (UK)
Another possibility
1881
RG11/315/F40/p27
22 Queen Anne Road, Hackney
Charles Donne 34 Appraiser Cowbridge, Glamorgan
Emily wife 26 Petersfield, Hants
John son 7 Portishead, Somerset
William son 6 City of London
Maud 4 City of London
Beatrice 2 City of London
Mary 0 City of London

I have found all the births except John and mmn Chapman but I can't find a marriage.

Emeltom

This would appear to be them. Haven't got a marriage for them so, doubt whether they did. Have posted the 1911 census.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: johnP-bedford on Monday 09 April 18 11:33 BST (UK)
This may be his death:
1927 Q1 Death: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne; age 82 (born c1845); West Ham; 04a; 106

Probate Calendar Entry 17th May 1927: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne of St.Ives Road, Houghton, Hunts died 27 Mar 1927 at 10 Valetta Grove, Plaistow, Essex... to Maud Robinson (wife of James Robinson) & May Violet Aldous, widow .... £97

Possible death index for wife Emily Donne age 71 Dec 1925 St.Ives 3b 298


**** Later - possible marriage Charles Thomas Donne & Emily Chapman Mar 1906 Stepney 1c 400
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Friday 13 April 18 11:04 BST (UK)
This may be his death:
1927 Q1 Death: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne; age 82 (born c1845); West Ham; 04a; 106

Probate Calendar Entry 17th May 1927: Charles John Jenkins Thomas Donne of St.Ives Road, Houghton, Hunts died 27 Mar 1927 at 10 Valetta Grove, Plaistow, Essex... to Maud Robinson (wife of James Robinson) & May Violet Aldous, widow .... £97

Possible death index for wife Emily Donne age 71 Dec 1925 St.Ives 3b 298


**** Later - possible marriage Charles Thomas Donne & Emily Chapman Mar 1906 Stepney 1c 400



All interesting.

The 1911 census has Charles DONNE living at Forest Gate.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Friday 13 April 18 11:18 BST (UK)
The 1911 census with Charles DONNE & family.

Moderator comment: 1911 census image removed. As the topic's originator you can transcribe what you see and post the details for others
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Monday 16 April 18 08:05 BST (UK)
Came across this 1911 census, which states they were married for 38 years.

On ancestry, it appears he married a Emily Chapman. I doubt whether they married.  If she was 54 in 1911 she must have been 16, 38 years earlier, in 1873

Charles and Bethia were married in 1872 and Bethia, died tragically in 1874.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXT-FFB

Moderator comment: 1911 census image removed. Link to free transcription at FamilySearch posted instead.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: jcope on Thursday 20 December 18 17:46 GMT (UK)
I know that this is an old topic but I came across Bithia Donne's headstone at the Foster Hill Road Cemetery a few weeks ago. I have only just recently got round to adding the details onto FindAGrave;

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195441748/bithia-donne (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195441748/bithia-donne)

The headstone is still in quite good condition.

Sorry if you knew this already - I just thought it worth mentioning since this topic came up while looking for info about Bithia Donne via Google.
Title: Re: Charles John DONNE/DOUNE
Post by: cupcake on Saturday 22 December 18 06:59 GMT (UK)
I know that this is an old topic but I came across Birth Donne's headstone at the Foster Hill Road Cemetery a few weeks ago. I have only just recently got round to adding the details onto FindAGrave;

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195441748/bithia-donne (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195441748/bithia-donne)

The headstone is still in quite good condition.

Sorry if you knew this already - I just thought it worth mentioning since this topic came up while looking for info about Bithia Donne via Google.

Many thanks for doing this for me. I do have a photograph of the headstone but, the inscription you have given is much clearer. Also thank you for the information on where she lived and her previous husband(they were married in 1866 and her husband died 1867) sadly no children. She died tragically in 1874 aged 37

cupcake