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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Brewins girl on Saturday 24 March 18 17:52 GMT (UK)
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Help - I'm stuck! and embarrassed to say so, as I was brought up on £sd (the money, not the drug!)
I need to multiply two amounts by 100. The first, 13s 1½d (13 shillings, one and a half pence) was easy - I made it £6. 17s. 6d - can anyone confirm that this is right (or not!) please.
Then the second has got me stumped - so, 100 x £1. 9s. 10d - I've got £186.10s.4d -can this possibly be right?
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Oh dear, I'm sure now that my first calculation was wrong - way out in fact
I think 100 x 13s 1½d is £65.12s. 6d not £6.17s.6d.
No wonder I've never made a lot of money!!!
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For the second one, £1. 9s. 10d is 2d short of £1.50 in new money. So 100 times that is £150 minus 200d. 200d is 16/8 so the net sum is £149 3s 4d
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I think 100 x 13s 1½d is £65.12s. 6d not £6.17s.6d.
I would agree with that figure and the second one I make to be
£149 3s 4d
(100 x £1 = £100 , 100 x 9s = £45 100x10d = £4 3s 4d)
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100x £1 = £100
100x 9s = 900s divided by 20 (shillings to the £1) =£45
100x 10d = 1000 divided by 240 (pennies in the £1) = £4.16d
total £149. 1.4d
hope this helps
12 pennies in a shilling 24 halfpennies to a shilling
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£65.12s 6d is the other amount
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100x £1 = £100
100x 9s = 900s divided by 20 (shillings to the £1) =£45
100x 10d = 1000 divided by 240 (pennies in the £1) = £4.16d
total £149. 1.4d
1000 pennies divided by 240 (pennies to the pound) gives £4 (£4=960 pennies) with 40d left over, 40d = 3s 4d
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I agree with £149 3s 4d - gosh, it's a long time since I've done that kind of arithmetic! ;D
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;D ;D. I didn't even try GS! That little lot was too much like schooldays!
Maths was the only reason I chose Junior Class teaching! Sums!! Counting! Tables! etc.
Little did I know is that I was going to be inundated with new things like, the "amazing NEW JUNIOR MATHS Curriculum" - and things like Quiseniere (spg?) Rods, Face value, place Value, and other things I just couldn't understand, (and still don't).
3 years after introducing these new programmes into schools, including parent and teacher education, the Ministry of Education decided that due to the nationwide high rate of failure, with both children and their teachers, it would be totally abandoned, and the old curriculum (proven as having been very successful) would be reinstated!
A whole generation of children, their parent and teachers were affected!
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I must admit I don't understand modern maths, JB. But then I never shone at the old stuff either. However, in my businesses I've never had any trouble with counting the money and doing my books, because it isn't abstract and actually means something. But I have to confess that I failed my GCE O level Maths and because I was considered somewhat wanting in that department, I was put in for RSA Elementary Arithmetic Stage 1, with all the rest of the mathematical dumbos. When the results came through, it turned out that all the others got distinctions in the exam whilst I just managed to scrape a pass. In my defence I have to add that I got top marks for English, History, Biology, French etc..... but maths has always been a mystery to me. Unless we are talking money. ;D
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I agree with £149 3s 4d - gosh, it's a long time since I've done that kind of arithmetic! ;D
Yes, agree with this. Decimalisation is much easier!
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I'm 60 and wouldn't have any problem doing LSD arithmetic, but I love maths, but I must be about the last Generation that learned it.
I must be a sad old groat.
Martin
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I am reminded that when I was 15 I worked in the local Woolworths as a Saturday girl, and one of my first placements was in the grocery section. This was rather like a very small supermarket where customers filled hand-held wire baskets with groceries and took them to the till. The tills we had didn't add up - we had to do that in our heads. I would challenge people nowadays brought up with the joys of decimalisation to add up 'on the hoof' up to twenty items in the basket with prices such as 2/9d, 6d, 9/11d, 4 1/2d, 3/9d, etc etc etc. On reflection, we were pretty bright in those days. No calculators, no computers.....
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Before I found my niche in information technology I worked as a barman 40 years ago . It seemed so easy then to be able to add up six or eight drinks while trying to enjoy your own drink at the same time. Now the tills have a button for each drink. And they calculate the change.
Martin
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When I was about 18, I went to work in the Bank of New Zealand - the job was mainly the Manager's typist. Sometimes I also worked on the bookeeping machine, debiting and crediting to and from clients accounts. This was before computers of course.
I just thought of something funny! I had an algebra exam, marks - 3%. My maths teacher was an old dragon ( well, with me anyway, I was so useless)! The 3% was for neatness, and spelling my name correctly. Zero for the Algebra!
I worked as a stand-in teller in the lunch breaks, which was actually a very busy time, as a lot of the local businesses did their banking between 1 and 2 pm.
One day, there was my old dragon Maths Teacher standing in my queue! Oh dear... I had hoped she might change to another teller before she reached me, but no - didn't happen!
There she stood in front of me.... looked very puzzled, and while I was checking her cash deposit, she said "How in Heaven's name did YOU ever get a job as a bank teller" ??? ??? ???
I smiled and told her " we have REALLY Excellent tutors, but please don't interrupt me while I'm counting your cash, sorry, but I'll have to start again. Her face went very red, (just as it did in the classroom) but I started again.... really...really...slowly! 🐢🐢
Many years later, I met up with her again, when I was a "mature student" at Teachers college. I was doing my first teaching practice with Juniors, and she was one of the overseer's. Fortunately she wasn't doing Juniors, just as well! I didn't know she was at the school until I saw her in the staffroom at morning tea! Oh Noooo! I grabbed my cuppa and promptly went outside, and walked around the playground with some littlies. I don't know whether she saw me or not, but if she did, I don't think she would have recognised me anyway, all those years later.
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I'm sure this message is going to be a bit controversial but, I'm 26 and it is crazy that a system like this even existed in the first place. My Nan has tried explaining it to me many times and I just do not get it haha.
Then I wind her up and say we should get rid of miles and mph as that's also a system that doesn't make sense and replace it with kilometres and kmh :P
However, it is probably worth still learning it! :)
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Took me a while, but I did work it out, needed pen and paper though. My excuse is that in Australia we changed to decimal in 1966. Boy that was a long time ago. ;D ;D. It took longer for us to change to metric measurement and I still find it hard to visualise distances and at times convert or relate to something I know such as my height or a ruler.
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things like Quiseniere (spg?) Rods
Cuisenaire, I could have googled ;D, but looked up one of my school reports, as we used them back in the early 60's for Arithemetic.
Some times I still ask, without thinking, quilting material in yards. :D
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you KHP, I should have googled first shouldn't I! 🙀😜
I'm very lucky, I have a double sided tape measure, the old Imperial on one side, metric on the other. Most of the old patterns I used when my children were small, are not metric, so the double sided tape was and is very handy, when sewing for my grandchildren. One side is black and the other is white. Really good.
The same with baking and cooking, most of my recipes are pretty old too, so also Imperial measurements - my kitchen scales have both, and so do my bathroom scales, so no probs with that either, although I always leave it on the stones and pounds option.
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I must be a sad old groat.
Martin
No. I'm sure you are worth more than 4d!
The coins were long gone before anyone here was born, but a lot of us were taught how much they used to be worth.
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I'm 26 and it is crazy that a system like this even existed in the first place. My Nan has tried explaining it to me many times and I just do not get it haha.
But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.
http://www.montypython.net/scripts/4york.php
Carol
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That was so funny Carol! Thanks for posting the link! 👍👍 ;D ;D
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A small footnote to this discussion:
My mother fled from Austria to England in 1939 and was sent, with other refugee children to an english boarding school.
Her experience was, that the english kids were much, much better at mental arithmetic than the continental european refugees, precisely due to the british imperial weights and measures system and the constant practice in school ("if 5 pound (lb.) 4 oz. of X costs £2 3s. 4d. how much does 7 lb 13 oz. cost ?") and in daily life.
BUT....
the refugees were much better at languages, as they were more likely to have crossed more borders and had contact with more "foreigners" than the "insular" british kids.
Bob
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In the old days, when we had to sing patriotic songs at school, who else sang this?
"Rule Britannia! Two tanners make a bob
And three make one-and-six
And four, two bob."
Does it make sense to you at all, KentishChris?!!
Melbell
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I'm pretty sure that you can be number dyslexic, maths may as well be Japanese to me ::).
Not sooo bad as I was at school, I've now had years of practice of adding up and taking away etc. ;D I never sat any exam in maths. I remember my poor mum trying to teach me long division when still in primary school. I've never had occasion to use it since.
I did do the op's original calculation and came up with the correct answers, but all done on a calculator not by brain power, which it would have been back in the day.
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I'm pretty sure that you can be number dyslexic, maths may as well be Japanese to me ::).
Yes you can, it's Dyscalculia.
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Thank you all for your help, & especially for explaining how you arrived at the final figures. It was reassuring that my revised calculations for the lower figure was correct.
Cuisenaire rods! I remember using those with men & women with learning difficulties a looooong time ago.
I chuckled at Jaybelnz's story about the dragon - I am so glad you made her wait!
My original request for help has produced a fascinating thread - thank you all for your anecdotes.
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Thanks for the Monty Python script CarolA3 - now there's an idea for another thread!
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I remember my Father asking me which is the greater...6 Dozen Dozen or Half a Dozen dozen My 7 year old logic told me they were the same....he said "Go away and think about it and see if you still think the same" ;D
I did...and gave the right answer ;)
Carol
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I remember my Father asking me which is the greater...6 Dozen Dozen or Half a Dozen dozen My 7 year old logic told me they were the same....he said "Go away and think about and see if you still think the same" ;D
I did...and gave the right answer ;)
Carol
My logic gives a different answer
864 and 72
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It does make a difference if it is spoken rather than written down Mike....I take it you are older than 7 years old ??? ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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It does make a difference if it is spoken rather than written down Mike....I take it you are older than 7 years old ??? ;D ;D ;D
Carol
marginally older yes. I am now saying it out loud
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It does make a difference if it is spoken rather than written down Mike....I take it you are older than 7 years old ??? ;D ;D ;D
Carol
marginally older yes. I am now saying it out loud
No, despite getting funny looks in the restaurant I still don't get it , you'll have to explain!
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Misread the first message entirely (not used to reading posts on a phone), so now understand!
No need to explain.
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This is a very interesting thread and this has stirred up a lot of memories... In infant school and then junior school I had lots of bad experiences with maths. No kidding - by the end of my first term at school I had developed a maths phobia which remained with me until well into adulthood. I was good with my own pocket money but that was about it. I used to run shopping errands for my Mother at the weekend and for a long time I didn't even like handling this money so I would just hand over the shopping note and the purse to shopkeepers. (I was quite an innocent child so had no mistrust as I believed that most people were honest apart from people such as robbers who could easily be identified by their black masks, stripey jumpers, swag bags and evil sneers)
I eventually achieved O and A levels in different subjects but nothing in maths. One year later in life I went to do a nightclass in human biology. All was going well until a few weeks before the exam and then we were given some test papers. These included two questions relating to percentages and fractions. Just seeing these questions made me feel so anxious. I resolved that when the exam was over I would look for a numeracy class and try to beat this maths fear once and for all.
This was a great step as the teacher (who taught both literacy and numeracy) was so friendly and supportive.
Everyone worked through units At their own pace and did a little test at the end. I remember starting my first test. Initially, although this sounds silly I felt a bit sick and I began to shake. However, I told myself to pull myself together and that nothing bad was going to happen to me - I wasn't going to be punished if I didn't pass and nothing depended on this. I was only doing this to try to develop my confidence with numeracy. Anyway, I passed the test and all the other test units that followed.
At the end of the course my maths phobia had totally gone. I actually quite enjoy maths now and no longer feel the terror I once felt. In my class was one regal looking old lady in her nineties who just joined for the same reason as me - to get over a life-long phobia.I
I am not claiming that I am now 'great' at maths but I no longer get that sinking feeling if anything to do with maths crops up. I have more of a 'can do' attitude and have no more feelings of inadequacy and hopelessness about this.
As a result of my own experience, I would thoroughly recommend that if anyone has any left over numeracy or literacy issues from schooldays - join a local adult education class. Take it from me these issues can be overcome. ;D
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I'm delighted to find that others share my mathematical ineptitude! I could always manage money, and was really good at practical geometry, but arithmetic and algebra (shudder!!!) were totally bewildering to me at School. I was even put in for one Science "O" level ( I was all Arts & Languages) at a late stage in 5th form, as everyone realised I'd never ever manage a Maths pass, of any grade, for University entrance. Fortunately I got it!
Married an very good mathematician, actually, bless him. That wasn't his main attraction, I hasten to add!
TY
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Before I found my niche in information technology I worked as a barman 40 years ago . It seemed so easy then to be able to add up six or eight drinks while trying to enjoy your own drink at the same time. Now the tills have a button for each drink. And they calculate the change.
Martin
Snap. In those days working in a bar was the best way to learn mental arithmetic. You learned very very quickly if you wanted to stay in the job.
My dad always reckoned that £sd was easier for mental arithmetic because you could divide a pound into thirds as well as halves and quarters.
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One thing to remember is that mathematics and arithmetic are not the same thing.
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.... and I panic at both of them!
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Arithmetic is essential, but mathematics is fun. My one reservation is 40 years ago, studying calculus for A level, and it something something which I've never needed to use in my professional life. (Especially these days as 'rate of deterioration' is something I do not wish to know about.)
Martin
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Arithmetic + maths used to add up to the same thing to me = Terror!!
I once volunteered for a short-term Christian project in my area raising money for charity in a little cafe.
I expected just to work in the kitchen which was fine by me. Then someone decided to let me loose on the till. My Pastor came in and sat down for a meal. After, he had paid me I somehow managed to hand over too much change which he immediately handed back.
I felt quite embarrassed that instead of raising money I was inadvertently caught in the act of giving this away. ::). He took this in good part though.
I probably wouldn't last a full shift in a pub though and I would never work in a bank - even if they would have me. I can just picture myself getting arrested!! :o :o
Maybe my numeracy fears haven't quite gone after all. ... all these fearful scenarios I am conjuring up now!! :o ;D
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I really enjoyed all branches of Maths but my favourite was Algebra. it seemed so pure and logical ;D
In the primary school that I went to we had 15 mins of mental arithmetic each morning before prayers (it was C of E- only one in the village) and 15 mins of spelling before going home time.
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Arithmetic is essential, but mathematics is fun. My one reservation is 40 years ago, studying calculus for A level, and it something something which I've never needed to use in my professional life. (Especially these days as 'rate of deterioration' is something I do not wish to know about.)
Martin
My introduction to calculus was 50yrs ago at college for my ONC Engineering. Differentiation was relatively easy but the opposite 'Integration', now that I was never any good at.
Probably explains why I'm still a bachelor! ;D ;D ;D
EDIT; and no! I can't recall ever using it outside the class room either.
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I'm so glad you've overcome your phobia RiverTyneLass. Im fortunate in that I enjoyed (basic, GCE 'O' level) maths & algebra and I've prided myself on my mental arithmetic, and even fractions and ratios, but this £sd problem really flummoxed me. (and to think I was brought up on £sd). It was taxing me so much that I was wasting time on it, and then recalled my father's advice - an 'expert'* is someone who knows where to find the information, not necessarily to 'know' it yourself, which is when I turned to RootChat in the certain knowledge that someone out there would help me.
I am writing a book based around wartime letters (WW2) and in one letter the writer (my uncle, a conscript soldier in REME) said that there was probably not much difference between 1st and 3rd class rail travel. The National Rail Museum provided information about the fare scales/100 miles (the two figures I began this thread about) - I am so grateful to the people who have worked this out for me. You've saved me a lot of angst! And I have very much enjoyed the thread of responses. Thank you all
[* another definition of 'expert' is that an 'ex' is a has-been, and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure! I prefer my Dad's definition!]
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Thank you for your kind comment, Brewins girl. I am glad to read that others on here had a much better experience with maths/arithmetic than I did when growing up.
I would write about the experiences I had at school which led to my becoming maths phobic but this would probably just come across as another form of 'mis lit' and there is probably enough of that in the bookshops already. ;)
I wish you success with your new book. :)
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Arithmetic is essential, but mathematics is fun. My one reservation is 40 years ago, studying calculus for A level, and it something something which I've never needed to use in my professional life.
I've always loved Maths, as in algebra, geometry etc. However, I'm not great at Arithmetic, and hopeless at mental Arith - always have to write it down. Definitely, maths and Arithmetic are different things.
know I used calculus in Uni, but probably not since i left.
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Eethank you River Tyne lass. I've enjoyed the contributions to the thread -especially when my laptop 'froze' on me today!
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Quote
"I really enjoyed all branches of Maths but my favourite was Algebra. it seemed so pure and logical ;D"
Well then Gadget, I am obviously Very impure and Extremely illogical, as proven in the 3% result in my Algebra exam. ;D ;D :D
Brewins Girl, sorry to read about your laptop. I hope you were able to recover it!
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It's Algebra that's pure and logical, JB, not us ;D ;D
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I had forgotten about calculus. I was fine with maths at O level but by the time I reached university it seemed to have suddenly switched to a foreign language. After 3 terms I took to the world of work, thankfully there were no student loans in those days.
Algebra at O level had fascinated me which is why I probably made the wrong choices going forwards but when I went into IT I found that all those strange formulae with brackets all over the place were just what I was using in writing code.
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And matrices, what were they? ??? :-\ :P Something to do with murdered mothers wasn't it? :o
Oh no, that 's matricide! :o ;D
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My only major collection of Pounds, Shilings and Pence now lives in a Standard Lamp. When I emigrated from the Mother Country I brought over a very large collection of half pennies. Bought a Standard Lamp over here but it was unstable. Took it apart filled the base with half pennies. Now it is very stable.
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It's Algebra that's pure and logical, JB, not us ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
You'll be able to get a pony now barryd!!🐎
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Them were the days, doing pounds, shillings & pence, long division and log tables with zilch out of 10 in my maths book, trying not too fidget on the seat with ones sore bum from the dreaded size 12 pump :'(, while being watched by the brainy smirk face smarty pants of the class with gold stars in their exercise books. :-[ :-[ :-[
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for real fun add in some farthings
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Ah! Yes! with the Wren on the back. then there was the Ha'penny, did that have the portcullis on it or was that the thru'penny bit with its many sides, can't remember how many but 12 comes to mind.
EDIT:- Quick search on web confirms
Ha'penny had Britannia or the Golden Hind, the Portcullis was indeed on the 12 sided thru'penny bit
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http://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/coins/british-coinage/old-denominations/halfpenny-and-farthing/index.html
;D
(my first pocket money was a threepenny bit)
Here we are a bit further along
http://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/coins/british-coinage/old-denominations/threepence/index.html
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Hi Gadget,
Your post crossed whilst I was editing mine. Thanks for the links.
I think the first pocket money I got was a tanner (6d)(2.5p) I think I was eight or nine.
Then there were the occasional florin (2s/10p) or Half a crown (2s 6d/12.5p) for birthdays or in the Christmas stocking.
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I did quite well for pocket money as my Dad gave me money and one of my grown up brothers (I was the youngest child - 22 years between me and the eldest) also gave me weekly money and I was also given money from my step-Grandmother when I visited them each week. She was my Grandad's third wife. I always used this last source of money to buy an Enid Blyton book from Woolworths on the way home. I was (and still am) a bookworm so this was a real treat. Happy memories. :)
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As children, my two brothers and myself didn't exactly get any regular pocket money. But if Mum or Dad sent one of us across the road to the shops for anything, they would usually say, bring home the change, but you can buy yourself an ice cream first, or keep 3d for your money box!
Every time my grandparents came on a Saturday morning, my Grandpop would quietly slip 3 shillings into my hand, and told me to keep one, and give one to each of my brothers. He would also whisper "dinnae tell yer mither - nor yer Nanny! They wid fair shoot me - aff ye go, pit it in yer money box - quick".
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What a kind Grandfather. :) Your post has reminded me of some of my own childhood shopping memories.
On a Saturday, I would do some shopping errands for my Mother. The lady who ran the bread shop would ask me to go and buy her a few items from the greengrocer's shop next door. When I came back with her shopping and change she would let me choose any cake in the shop. I always asked for a fresh cream meringue. Whenever, I see meringue nowadays I always remember the nice lady in the bread shop.
My Mother had a set order at this bread shop and it was my job to go and get this. I will never forget one Saturday when I set off with a nephew (who was about my age). I spotted a bread van one afternoon and said to my nephew that we should buy the things from there to save time so we could get back to playing sooner. We were both on the van and the man was carefully wrapping the items when I suddenly remembered that we had an order at the bread shop. I told the man this and said that we couldn't buy any of the things he'd wrapped as we had an order somewhere else. He was furious and chased us off his van and shouted so much.
Another, time I was sent shopping for margarine with this same nephew by my grown up married sister. I came back with two blocks of lard. My sister made us return to the shop to change this despite our grumblings.
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My mum gave my brother & I our pocket money on Friday (1950's), usually a bob a week each with the odd tanner for going to the shop or doing a job, dad encouraged us to save by buying us both a saving tin box which he would raid to invest the money at the bookie turf accountant usually mid week just before payday if he was skint. We soon learned to spend the dosh (pocket money) as soon as we got it as dad was good at investing the money but also good at picking horses that lost... ;D ;D ;D
Ps , I always had my bike at the weekend but it was back in the pawn shop Tuesday :'( by dad, mum got it out Friday (Payday).
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My grandfather always used to give us half a crown when we visited. A few years ago I made contact with a second cousin, her mother was the daughter of my grandmother’s brother, so my grandparents were her great aunt and uncle. She said that one of her childhood memories was of my grandparents visiting twice a year and my grandfather slipping her half a crown when they left!
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I've just looked at the responses to my original query (about £sd) and notice that I've had two people saying that 100 x £1.9s.10d is £149.3s.4d and two people saying it's £149.1s.4d. Now, what do I do with the two bob change if I go with the second of these? I've decided to write "nearly £150" and be done with it, but I thought people writing in this thread might be interested in seeing this collection of coins from the Festival of Britain in 1951. Unfortunately the 1d (one penny) coin is missing.
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It's £149. 3s 4d
£1 x 100 = £100
9s x 100 = 900s divided by 20 = £45
10d x 100 = 1000d divided by 240 = £4 with 40d left over
40d divided by 12 = 3s 4d
so £100 + £45 + £4 +3s + 4d = £149 3s 4d
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It's £149. 3s 4d
£1 x 100 = £100
9s x 100 = 900s divided by 20 = £45
10d x 100 = 1000d divided by 240 = £4 with 40d left over
40d divided by 12 = 3s 4d
so £100 + £45 + £4 +3s + 4d = £149 3s 4d
The 1s and 4d comes from a simple error in mixing decimal and imperial
1000d (100x10d) divided by 240 (pennies in a pound) does give an answer of 4.16 - the error comes in accepting the .16 to mean 16 pennies (or 1s and 4d) If you stick to plain old longdivision you have 1000 divided by 240 giving you £4 with 40d as a remainder - 40d as explained above 3s & 4d
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- did someone need to spend a penny urgently?
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The reference to the "old groat"(fourpence) reminds me that at one time I think 4d was the cost of a phone call from a public phone box.If unconnected,you could "Press Button B" and get your four pence back.
On a more topical note 3d was the amount I remember that you got back when returning an empty bottle of Corona.
....and at one time(no,not in my lifetime)there were half and third farthings in circulation,originally intended for use in Ceylon and Malta respectively.
Regards
Roger