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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: klmadz2301 on Sunday 25 March 18 14:42 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I am looking for the birth or baptism details for David Fisher. His parents are Edward James Fisher and Martha Fisher nee Clark. According to his marriage certificate to Jane Bass in 1882, he was born abt 1861. On the 1871 census, it says he was born in Kensingbury, Middlesex, England and on the 1891 census it says Kensington, London, England.
I posted on another board regarding his older sister who was born in 1860 but wasn't baptised until 1886, and it was mentioned that Edward James and Martha might have decided to be non-conformists with regards to the children's baptisms. The rest of the children that Edward and Martha had were baptised soon after birth but I can't find a single thing, other than marriage and census records for dates and places, that point to a birth or baptism for David.
If you require any other information, please feel free to ask.
Thank you :)
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Using the new GRO births index, which shows the maiden name, there is this:
David Fisher DecQ 1861 Kensington 1a 63 (mother Clark)
I think the 1871 census has been badly transcribed with the "h" from the line below appearing to join the line above and give a "y".
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Hello,
Presumably this is his birth.
David Fisher Mmn Clark
1861 December quarter Kensington vol 01A pg 63
Heywood
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Thank you both so much.
Now i just have to find his death. his last appearance on a census was in 1891, and he was living in Camberwell. He is listed with his wife Jane, 2 sons and a daughter but I did notice that the daughter appears to be living with David's older sister in the 1901 and 1911 census. So i would assume that he has passed and all the children went to live with different family members. But i will know more once i trace the children further.
Thank you both again so much for the information.
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Now i just have to find his death. his last appearance on a census was in 1891,
This looks like David in 1901 - but with a different wife and some additional children :-\
Son Arthur, born in Deal, is with him.
1, Hamilton Place, Penge
RG 13 / 652 / 127 / 46
David Fisher, head, m, 37, shoemaker, London Kensington
Alice R Fisher, wife, m, 35, Berkshire, Reading
Fredk Geo Fisher, son, Dyers carmen, Surrey, Croydon
Arthur E Fisher, son, 15, errand boy, Kent Deal
Richd Alb. Fisher, son, 14, Surrey Croydon
Ellen Alice Fisher, daur, 11, do do
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David and Jane’s son David James Fisher (7 b Battersea per 1891 census; birth reg Dec qtr 1883 Wandsworth) died in Epsom Dec qtr 1902 aged 19.
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Richard Albert Rosier, mmn Castle, birth reg Mar qtr 1887 Croydon
Ellen Alice Rebecca Roszier, mmn Parch, birth reg Sep qtr 1889 Croydon
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1, Hamilton Place, Penge
RG 13 / 652 / 127 / 46
David Fisher, head, m, 37, shoemaker, London Kensington
Alice R Fisher, wife, m, 35, Berkshire, Reading
Fredk Geo Fisher, son, Dyers carmen, Surrey, Croydon
Arthur E Fisher, son, 15, errand boy, Kent Deal
Richd Alb. Fisher, son, 14, Surrey Croydon
Ellen Alice Fisher, daur, 11, do do
Now then..... here's an interesting household in 1891
RG 12 /596/68/12
Naseby Road, Croydon
Richard Rosier, head, 39, porter, Surrey Mitcham
Alice Rosier, wife, 24, Berks. Reading
Richard Rosier, son, 4, Surrey Croydon
Ellen Rosier, daur, 2, Surrey Croydon
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Thank you once again :)
From doing a search on GRo with the mmn Bass between 1882 and 1900 I found several more births to David and Jane, although several passed away. I will have to investigate the new names and dates and see if they match up to my David.
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David Fisher married Alice Rebecca Parch, Sep qtr 1904 Croydon.
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Richard Albert Rosier, mmn Castle, birth reg Mar qtr 1887 Croydon
Ellen Alice Rebecca Roszier, mmn Parch, birth reg Sep qtr 1889 Croydon
Just to explain the differing mother's maiden names:
Looking at the various censuses Alice was born Alice Parch. She is with her mother as Alice Parch in Croydon in 1871 (RG 10/848/106/30)
However, in 1881 her mother Caroline is living in Woolwich with a James Castle, and Alice appears in that census as Alice Castle. (RG 11/748/63/19)
Her mother married James Castle in 4q 1885, Croydon 2a, 343
Then when Alice married David she reverted to her given surname.
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Wow, so David's first wife had obviously passed away. I will have to do a search for a death record for Jane.
I am struggling to find David in the 1901 and 1911 census. I have full access to Ancestry but I just can't seem to find him. But this new information regarding a second wife is a great help. I still have housework to do but all i want to do is jump back into researching :)
Thank you all for your help. You have no idea how much I value it, especially because David has been so elusive to me after 1891.
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Sadly, I have found David's first wife, Jane's death. She was admitted to a mental institution in June 1899 and died in August 1899 in the institution.
Jane's oldest son, David James, was also admitted to a mental institution when he was 16 and died there when he was 19.
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Woohoo.
No wonder, i couldnt find them. whoever did the transcript wrote Fosher not Fisher.
Finally i can move forward with David and find out where he went :)
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I am struggling to find David in the 1901 and 1911 census.
But I gave you the 1901 census in reply #4. This is what alerted us to the relationship with Alice.
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JenB, i was looking for the census on Ancestry from the information you gave me so that I could save it to my records :)
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JenB, i was looking for the census on Ancestry from the information you gave me so that I could save it to my records :)
Ah, I see. I misunderstood what you said, my apologies :-[
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JenB, i was looking for the census on Ancestry from the information you gave me so that I could save it to my records :)
It is well worth getting used to using census references in the Piece, Folio and Page fields of a search form, rather than names, in order to sidestep any mistranscriptions. JenB provided the 1901 reference in her earlier post about that census: RG13/652/127/46.
You can use that as follows:
Open up the country-specific search form - 1901 census for England
RG13 - this just indicates it is the 1901 census; no need to enter it.
652 - enter this into the Piece field
127 - enter this into the Folio field
46 - enter this into the Page field
Then press search without entering any names. Your results list will include everyone sharing the same reference including your people, who on any given occasion may or may not be mistranscribed.
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1, Hamilton Place, Penge
RG 13 / 652 / 127 / 46
David Fisher, head, m, 37, shoemaker, London Kensington
Alice R Fisher, wife, m, 35, Berkshire, Reading
Fredk Geo Fisher, son, Dyers carmen, Surrey, Croydon
Arthur E Fisher, son, 15, errand boy, Kent Deal
Richd Alb. Fisher, son, 14, Surrey Croydon
Ellen Alice Fisher, daur, 11, do do
Looking at Electoral Rolls, David Fisher is still at Hamilton Place in 1905.
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It looks like Richard Albert Rosier (aka Richard Albert Fisher in 1901) attests in the Military in 1906 as Albert Richard Fisher occupation bootmaker.
His father's name is given as David James Fisher of 70 Stenbridge Road, Anerley.
(His brothers are named as Frederick George, and Edward Arthur which fits with other names on the 1901 census)
A David Fisher is living at 70 Stembridge Road in the 1906 Electoral Register. However, this house appears to be unoccupied in 1911 (from Enumerators Summary Book)
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Thank you all for this wonderful information.
David has frustrated me for awhile because i couldn't seem to find him but you all have been such a wonderful help.
JenB: no need to apologise, i should have said that in my message, re: saving the actual record. Been a very busy week and my brain doesn't want to work at the best of times.
Just a question regarding David and Alice. Alice is listed as his wife in 1901 yet they didn't marry until 1904. Would the enumerator have just assumed they were married?
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Just a question regarding David and Alice. Alice is listed as his wife in 1901 yet they didn't marry until 1904. Would the enumerator have just assumed they were married?
No, enumerator would simply have copied down what the head of the household (i.e. David) wrote on the census form.
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i FINALLY found David's death.
Death registered April-May-June Quarter, 1919 in Kensington. he was almost 58 years old :)
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Did you get the Death Cert to prove for certain it's him?
I wonder where he was hiding in 1911?
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Just a question regarding David and Alice. Alice is listed as his wife in 1901 yet they didn't marry until 1904. Would the enumerator have just assumed they were married?
As Jen B says, generally no assumption was made, but what was written down by the family or told to the enumerator.
I looked for my great grandparents marriage everywhere, gave up in the end. On the 1911 census it states married 23 yrs and it was only when I was searching for their childrens marriages I found their marriage later in 1911... so they lied on the census, as 1911 is filled in and signed by head of house....why did they lie? Because they had children over the previous 22 yrs and with divorce being too expensive they had to wait until 1st wife died, they married within a week of the 1st wife dying
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I havent purchased the death cert yet, as funds are short (cancer treatment and a child with diabetes makes life tight) but I will when I can.
I noticed a couple of my ancestors have married very quickly after the first spouse has died. Was it important for them to be married, or something as i noticed that they very rarely stayed single after a spouse has died, even if the second marriage didn't result in children.
One of my ancestors married within 6 months of the first wifes death and then within a year of the second wife dying. The third wife out lived him by a few years.