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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Chiad Fhear on Wednesday 28 March 18 15:30 BST (UK)
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Hi there
I'm a bit stumped trying to find where and when Mary was born and what happened to her after she married in 1924 ... hence this vague post ::)
Captain John Douglas Taylor (her husband) was born 28 Oct 1894 in Stanley House, South Avenue, Govan, Lanarkshire, and died 21 Jul 1950 at sea. He married Mary on 14 May 1924 in St Mary's Roman Catholic Chapel, Pollockshields, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, daughter of James Law and Mary Lavery. Her age is given as 33 - so was born abt. 1891.
The 1924 Register of Marriage shows their marriage was conducted after Publication according to the Forms of the Roman Catholic Church by Fr. John F. Stuart, R.C. Clergyman, St Mary's Church, Pollockshields. Witnesses were Cuthbert McKirdy, 27 Kirkwood Street, Rutherglen and Martha Law, Clerwood, Uddingston. Mary's occupation, in May 1924, was Mercantile Clerk and her address given as 9 Walton Street, Glasgow, Lanarkshire. Both parents are shown as Deceased.
I'm in the hands of the RootsChatters yet again!
Chiad Fhear
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On the marriage certificate did it name her mother as Mary Law m.s. Lavery? If not then she would have been unmarried. When Mary was born she may have been registered under her mother's surname or father's.
flst
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On the marriage certificate did it name her mother as Mary Law m.s. Lavery? If not then she would have been unmarried. When Mary was born she may have been registered under her mother's surname or father's.
flst
Hi there
Thanks for your response :)
The Register of Marriage shows:
Father - James Law, Riveter (deceased) : Mother - Mary Law M.S. Lavery (deceased)
I've had a look under both Law and Lavery, the former throwing up more results than I care to meddle with online at ScotlandsPeople :o It'll be easier and more cost-effective to have a look next time I go to Edinburgh. I even tried under Low - just on the off-chance.
Oddly enough, I can't find a 1901 Census north or south of the Border for the family either ???
Chiad Fhear
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Have you tried the 1901 census with Martha as the other person on the same page?
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CF, SP is out of action until tomorrow pm. Hopefully new possibilities after then..... ::)
Monica
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Have you tried the 1901 census with Martha as the other person on the same page?
Hi Forfarian
Good to have you on-board (again) with one of my searches ;)
Yes, umpteen pages of online Census trawled with all sorts of options but still getting nowhere with this >:(
Chiad Fhear
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CF, SP is out of action until tomorrow pm. Hopefully new possibilities after then..... ::)
Monica
Hi Monica
Thanks for that ... and good to have you on-board as well! I wasn't aware as I've had no communications from them about a closure.
Chiad Fhear
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Given Martha Law was a witness, have you considered this as an outside possible:
1910
Glaisnock Street, Old Cumnock, Ayrshire
William Smith, 41, coalminer, b. Dalry
......
and 8 boarders including:
Mary Law,11, scholar, b. Dumbarton
Martha Law, 10, scholar, b. Ireland
Maggie Law, 8, scholar, b. England
Catherine Law,5, scholar, b. Dumbarton
Gadget
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Also an 'outside possible maybe' in 1891
Overburn Terrace, Dumbarton
James Law, 31,Engine Shop Labourer, B. Ireland
Mary Ann, 27, b. Ireland
Mary J, 6**
James, 5
Marie, 3
Daniel, 1
All children b. Dumbarton
These from transcriptions so would need to check ages.
Gadget
** added --- this Mary was a domestic servant in Cardross on the 1901 so not the same as the 1901 one in Ayrshire.
Marie, aged 3 is still with parents in 1901 - now down as Mary.
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Thanks Gadget ... good to have you on-board too ;)
Some good pointers there. Looks as if I'll be going to Edinburgh sooner rather than later now!
Can I assume this is a typo ... for 1910 Glaisnock Street, Old Cumnock, Ayrshire read 1901?
I've been thinking the family may have come over from Ireland - Lavery has an Irish "ring" to it from what I can recall.
If I can find the deaths of James and Mary they may give me a better idea, given they were before May 1924.
Chiad Fhear
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Yes - sorry - 1901
Worth doing some checks after 3 pm today.
Have you looked at the Irish records:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
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Have you looked at the Irish records:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Hi Gadget
Yes, very briefly, but I have no real dates to work with for them to be of much help.
Chiad Fhear
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Given Martha Law was a witness, have you considered this as an outside possible:
1910
Glaisnock Street, Old Cumnock, Ayrshire
William Smith, 41, coalminer, b. Dalry ... and 8 boarders including ...
Gadget
Hi again Gadget
I've just had a look at that Census on Ancestry. All 8 "Boarders" from what appears three families and all aged between 4 and 11.
Makes you wonder why William and Annie had them all as well as a 3 year old of their own :o
But that's another story ... :-\
Chiad Fhear
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Birth 1st April 1891 Londonderry Ireland , Martha Law , father James Law , mother Mary Lavery.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02389/1891125.pdf
ev
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Great find, ev :D
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Makes up for spending an over an hour yesterday finding nothing , seen the Census you posted and 2 minutes later........... :)
ev
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Just been looking at the Irish 1901-1911 - don't see either of them at the moment :-\
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If not on the Irish 1901, then the Ayrshire one looks a possible. Maybe look for Margaret (Maggie) in England while we wait for 3 pm!
Added - rivetter - so would be Barrow or Tyneside or....
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While RC was down, I found this~
April 23 1889
54 College street Dumbarton
Mary Law
Parents - James Law, rivetter (journeyman) and Mary Law, MS Lavry - married Dumbarton, June 12 1885
Also can confirm that a Catherine Law was born 2 May 1895, Church Street, Dumbarton. Same parents details as above.
(Not found marriage so far)
Oh dear, oh dear
Death
17 February 1898, Stirling District Lunatic Asylum, Larbert
Mary Lavery or Law, Housewife, widowed, aged 35, no info about parents.
Cause - suicide by strangulation, certified.
Informant - Thomas Cowan, Head Attendant
Reg Cor. Entries has same info.
Death 17 July 1896, Dumbarton
James Law, 34, rivetter (journeyman), married to Mary Lavrey
Burgh Police Cells,usual residence 70 Church Street, Dumbarton
Parents - William Law, labourer, dec. and Martha, MS McVennie(?)
Cause ascertained by PM - Asphyxia by hanging, suicide
Informant - Edward Law. brother, Port Glasgow
RC confirms with age given as 35
So the children were in Ayrshire in 1901 because they were orphans
All very sad
Gadget
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Hi folks
Got very impatient waiting for RC to get back up and running, discovered SP were working again so bought some credits and have just downloaded the 23 April 1889 Register of Birth - 54 College Street, Dumbarton - and the 6 December 1967 Register of Death - Southern General Hospital, Glasgow - for Mary.
Seems she told the Registrar a wee porkie about her age when she got married to John :o
Thanks for the details about the parents. I'll get them now and complete the record :)
Appreciate all the help with this search ;)
Chiad Fhear
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If you'd like the other certs that I found, send me an e-mail address and I can send them.
Gadget
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Try LOW for 1885 marriage ?
ev
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I'll dig around and see what I can find. Mary's Birth record says they married 12 June 1885 in Dumbarton so it should be fairly straight forward.
Chiad Fhear
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Have sent the death certs and the RCEs.
I was interested in Edward Low, who signed the death cert - his address given as Port Glasgow.
There's one in the 1901 as a boarder in P Glasgow with wife Jane and children - including 2 Williams, which fit with the father's name on death cert. Stated as b. Port Glasgow but all of them are b. P Glasgow! Have not followed up any further.
Gadget
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1871
9 Fore Street, Port Glasgow
William Law, 43, labr )
Martha, 36 )
Mary, 12, millworker )
Daniel, 11 ) b Antrim
James, 10 )
Edward, 5 )
Margaret, 2, b. Port Glasgow
Arthur, under 1, b. Port Glasgow
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The marriage is on scotlandspeople ; James Low & Mary Lavery, 1885, 496/36, Dunbarton.
flst
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http://libguides.stir.ac.uk/archives/SDA
The above is a link to the archives of Stirling Lunatic Asylum. There will be information on Mary in them.
flst
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CF, with everything that has been found and just as additional detail. Likely deaths of Mary's sisters:
Catherine Law/McGinty, mother's MS Lavery - death in Glasgow 1976. Aged 81.
Martha Law, no additional surname (single?) mother's MS Lavery - death in Rutherglen 1981. Aged 89.
Monica
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...when Mary was born and what happened to her after she married in 1924 ...
A possible death?
Mary Law and Taylor surnames, died in Glasgow in 1967, aged 78.
Can't see a third surname for this Mary, so if the correct death entry, guessing she did not remarry.
Given it is a 1967 death, it can be viewed online on SP....or as you are heading to an SP centre soon... ::)
Monica
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Try LOW for 1885 marriage ?
ev
Hi ev
I managed to get the record of marriage off SP. It was indexed as 'LOW' as you indicated but it's quite clearly 'LAW' on the document.
I've pointed out the error to SP :o
Chiad Fhear
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Have done a quick read through the thread and don't think the Lavery family have been identified on census
Mary Lavery with her parents and siblings in 1871
Back 46, College Street, Dumbarton
John Lavery, 48, Labourer in iron ship buildyard, b. Ireland
Ellen, 34, b. Ireland
Daniel, 14, rivet heater in iron ship build yard, b.Glasgow
Catherine, 10, b. Ireland
Mary, 8, b. Dumbarton
John, 6, b. -do-
Margaret, 4, b. -do-
Names show in Mary's children - no Ellen/Helen found though.
Also at same address in the 1881. Mary and Catherine are down as Factory workers.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget
Everyone is really digging feverishly around the roots of this tree for me and I really appreciate the assistance.
I now need to get my Family Tree Maker updated.
Many thanks RootsChatters :)
Chiad Fhear
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Hi everyone
I've just received information from the University of Stirling Archives and Special Collections relating to Mary's mother.
The Register of Patients in the Stirling District Asylum show Mary was admitted there on 24 September 1895 on the recommendation of two Medical Practitioners: Richard Allan L.R.C.Ph.G and John Robertson M.D., authorised by Francis Gebbie, Esq., Sheriff Substitute of Stirling, Dumbarton and Clackmannan. The admission record shows she was aged 32, a Pauper, very weak, appeared in a puerperal state and suffering from acute mania.
It would seem husband James Law managed to cope for only a further year after his wife's admission to the Asylum before he too committed suicide leaving the four children effectively orphaned.
Chiad Fhear
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'puerperal state'
Just checked back for Catherines Birth record - born 2nd March 1895. James was the informant. Poor Mary would have possibly suffered Post Natal Depression :-\
Gadget
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Catherine born 2nd March 1895. James was the informant. Poor Mary would have possibly suffered Post Natal Depression
Gadget
Hi Gadget
The lady who passed the information to me also said, "Apparently a ‘puerperal state’ was believed to be a specific form of mania that accompanied the state of pregnancy."
Today I've picked up the 1930 Register of Marriage, from SP, for the daughter Catherine to a William McGinty. I think she died in Glasgow 1976. I still have the other two daughters Martha and Maggie to find although I think Martha's death in Rutherglen in 1981 is on SP. I have to check them out in Edinburgh though.
Following from the three marriages I have found - all in Roman Catholic Churches - I assume the family followed that faith so two suicides would be unforgivable in the eyes of their Church.
All in all it's been a sad wee story to follow through.
Chiad Fhear
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Diagnoses in those days were not always accurate but one wonders how much the poverty, 4 children, etc. made everything worse :'(
This from Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis
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There are some newspaper reports of James' death. I'm not sure if you've read them but if not, I can send you a copy of one from the Dundee Advertiser;
Excerpt - I won't put up all the details:
Dundee Advertiser 20 July 1896
A Prisoner Commits Suicide
On Friday forenoon the Dumbarton Burgh Police apprehended a man named James Law, labourer, 70 Church Street, on a charge of being drunk and incapable. He was locked up in the cells and visited from time to time. About eight o'clock in the evening it was discovered that the man was dead.
Let me know if you'd like the piece.
Gadget
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There are some newspaper reports of James' death. I'm not sure if you've read them but if not, I can send you a copy of one from the Dundee Advertiser;
Excerpt - I won't put up all the details:
Dundee Advertiser 20 July 1896
A Prisoner Commits Suicide
On Friday forenoon the Dumbarton Burgh Police apprehended a man named James Law, labourer, 70 Church Street, on a charge of being drunk and incapable. He was locked up in the cells and visited from time to time. About eight o'clock in the evening it was discovered that the man was dead.
Let me know if you'd like the piece.
Gadget
Yes please Gadget. You have my email I think?
Chiad Fhear
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Just sent :)
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Many thanks Gadget.
Chiad Fhear
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Just to add a bit more to this, I've been to SP this week :) and now have transcripts of the Deaths for daughter Martha (unmarried) on 1 Apr 1891 at 62 Reid Street, Rutherglen, Lanarkshire and Catherine (widow of William McGinty) on 25 Sep 1976 in the Belvidere Hospital, Glasgow.
Still nothing for daughter Maggie/Margaret born abt. 1893 in England
Regards
Chiad Fhear