RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Pialba on Wednesday 28 March 18 23:56 BST (UK)
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I have just recently discovered that my Gr Gr Gr Gr Grandfather was a Gilbert Welch who married a Margaret Thompson in Simonburn, I have found a bpatsim of a Gilbert Welch to a Thomas Welch and Agnes Hall in Roxburgh, Scotland. However I have not been able to find a marriage of Thomas and Agnes, nor any baptisms of Agnes Hall and Thomas Welch, It would be in the mid 1700s as Gilbert was born in 1765. There was an Agnes, born 1764, A Thomas 1775, and a Beatrix in 1768. All were baptised at Castleton, Roxburgh. Is there anywhere I might be able to find the births of Thomas and Agnes, and also marriage, and deaths. Look forward to some hints.
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I note that the births are on freereg but no marriage for Thomas & Agnes. No marriage on family search in Scotland. I assume you have tried Scotland's People?
Sadly SP is down at the moment so I cannot check.
Colin
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I have just recently discovered that my Gr Gr Gr Gr Grandfather was a Gilbert Welch who married a Margaret Thompson in Simonburn, I have found a bpatsim of a Gilbert Welch to a Thomas Welch and Agnes Hall in Roxburgh, Scotland. However I have not been able to find a marriage of Thomas and Agnes, nor any baptisms of Agnes Hall and Thomas Welch, It would be in the mid 1700s as Gilbert was born in 1765. There was an Agnes, born 1764, A Thomas 1775, and a Beatrix in 1768. All were baptised at Castleton, Roxburgh. Is there anywhere I might be able to find the births of Thomas and Agnes, and also marriage, and deaths. Look forward to some hints.
Snap! I have been researching my Welch or Welsh ancestors for many years, and I believe that my 4 x great-grandfather Thomas Welsh is the Thomas born in 1775 to Thomas Welsh and Agnes Hall. Like you, I have tried and failed to find a marriage for Thomas senior and Agnes. Their children were born at Bilhopefoot, which is in Castleton parish near Hermitage Castle, a pretty bleak location, I believe.
If you have looked at the Castleton OPR you will have noticed that in the entry for your Gilbert's birth in 1765, Christopher has been entered and scored out and Gilbert written in its place. My Thomas Welsh born in 1775 called his eldest son Christopher, so it seems to have been a name in the Welsh family. I think the name Gilbert may come from the Hall side.
Most of my information about my Thomas Welsh born in 1775 comes from a Wanted notice about him printed in the Edinburgh Courant and the Kelso Mail in July 1808. He had been a soldier in the Hopetoun Fencibles, he was coachman to Gilbert Chisholm Esq. of Stirches, Hawick, and at the Martinmas term of 1807 (November) he collected his last three months' wages and did a runner, clearing out with his fancy woman and deserting his wife (Jean Ballantyne) and four children. The procurator fiscal's office in Hawick were actively looking for him, and the last sighting of Thomas had been at Leith docks, with an unknown woman in tow, "seeking a passage for the North". Not my most respectable ancestor! He was aged around 34 in 1808, hence born circa 1774-5. Reddish-brown hair, stout build, about 5ft 6ins.
I would be interested in knowing more about your Gilbert.
Harry (in Edinburgh)
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Hello Henry, Well, whata shock. As I said myself and other members of Gilberts descendants are still trying to sort things out. 2 cousins and myself are descended from Jane Welch, who was the son of Thomas and Agnes and was born in 1765. It seems he must have been a bit of a "lad" also, because I have found the baptism of a Christian daughter of Gilbert and Mary Davidson, baptised 6/10/1787, in Falstone, and in June 1787 he had married a Margery/ Margaret Herdman, at Falstone, and had 2 children, John baptised 11/3/1788 and Ann baptised 4/3/1789 both at Falstone, then in 1793 he married Margaret Thompson 2/6/1793 at Simonburn, they had 2 daughters , Frances baptised 6/6/1794 and Jane 11 December 1796 in Simonburn. Both Gilbert and Margaret are buried in the Churchyard at St Peters Church in Newbrough, Northumberland. Jane had a son, Gilbert in 1816 to a Ralph Milburn and the wives of 2 people I have been in contact with are descendants of the son Gilbert who married Mary Hogarth. my 2 cousins in Northumberland and me in Australia are descended from Jane. In 1819 she married a John Parker, however in 1825 she gave birth to a son, Thomas whose reputed father was Nicholas Todd, a wealthy land and mine owner in Stonecroft which is near Newbrough. Look forward to the next episode of our "Illustrious" Welch family, Bev.
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Hello Colin, Thaks for your prompt reply, I had found Scotlands People was down, but when I tried this morning I see it is again up and running. Cousins of mine who live in Northumberland are going to try and have a look at another site they have found, it is for Border people I live in Australia and can only glean information from the LDS, Find my Past and Ancestry, so do rely on help from people and I do appreciate everything I get. I got a reply from a Harry who is a descendant of Thomas, Gilberts brother. So that has added another member to the Welch family. Thank you once again, Bev.
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Hi again Colin, Just checked Scotlands People however the registers start at 1856, which is far too late for what I want. Bev.
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Hi Bev, thanks for your reply, when SP came back on line I did do a check without success but I think you may have looked at Statutory Registration which began in Scotland 1855, however church & other records begin earlier, especially church births & marriages.
Colin
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My 4 x great-grandparents Thomas Welsh and Jean Ballantyne were married in 1795 in Glasgow. In different records the name is spelt Welsh, Welch and Walsh, but I'm using Welsh to be consistent. Descendants have all used that spelling.
Thomas and Jean had a daughter called Agnes in Hawick in 1797. If my theory is correct, she was called after Thomas's mother Agnes Hall.
In the 1795 marriage record in Glasgow, Jean Ballantyne is described as "Residenter in Glasgow", which just means she was living in Glasgow at the time of her marriage. She may be the Jean born in Glasgow in 1775 to James Ballantyne, weaver, and Christian McGregor.
Harry
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The Beatrix Welch or Welsh born in 1768 to Thomas Welsh and Agnes Hall - sister of Gilbert and Thomas - had an illegitimate daughter called Beatrix at Bilhopefoot, Castleton, in 1799. The baby was baptised on April 23, 1799. There is an entry in the Castleton OPR.
Beatrix born 1799 is probably the Beatrix Welsh married at Wilton in 1839 to James Park, stockingmaker in Hawick parish (Wilton is part of Hawick town). James and Beatrix are living in Wilton in the 1841 census. His age is given as 50, and hers as 45. The 1841 census is notoriously inaccurate about ages but they were obviously no spring chickens when they married in 1839.
Wilton is the parish where my ancestor Thomas Welsh(b.1775), brother of the elder Beatrix and uncle of the younger one, worked as a coachman before clearing out and deserting his family in 1807.
Harry
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"Beatrix Welsh or Park" died in rather mysterious circumstances. Her death-certificate is dated December 12th 1867, and she died "In or near Howdenburn and at a part thereof at or near the Garden occupied by George Knox Stockingmaker Howdenburn in the parish of Wilton."
Her age was given as 70 (obviously a guess), she had been attended by a local GP, Dr. McLeod, and the cause of death was "Heart Disease combined with Dropsy". The death was registered on information from the Procurator Fiscal. It seems the Welshes were fated to have dealings with Procurators Fiscal (public prosecutors).
Harry
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Hello Harry,
Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I have been away for 10 days, and only arrived back late yesterday afternoon. Thank you so much for the information of Beatrix. I can now add that information to my tree. I always wanted to have Scottish Blood in me, and now thanks to the Welsh connection, I have. Bev
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My wife and I are just back too, from a week's holiday in Menorca, and I'm catching up with a backlog of 24 emails!
Harry
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Mine was a visit to the Hospital in our capital, Brisbane. I have a lot of problems with skin cancers, having fair skin and did have red hair in my younger days, and spent all my time in the sun on the beach, and I have found out in later life that fair skin and sun do not mix. Thankfully the results were fine, but I have to go back in September for another review. I get "withdrawal" symptoms when I can't access my computer, and look for names. Bev
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What you say resonates with me, as I was red-headed when younger and burn very easily in the sun. My face is currently the reddest it has been for years. I keep away from beaches and don't sunbathe.
I have a physiotherapy appointment every three weeks or so and my last physio, who sadly has now moved on, was from Brisbane. We get lots of young Aussie physios over here but they like to go travelling and don't stay in one place for long. My wife used to go to a gym called Curves, very popular with ladies of a certain age round here, and the trainer she worked with there came from Townsville, Qld.
Harry
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Gosh what a small world. I live in a place called Hervey Bay, Fraser Island is just off the coast from here. My mother was born in Northumberland, and my father came from London. I was born in a small country town called Mundubbera here in Queensland. There was 5 living children of their marriage, Joyce born in 1923 in London, Dennis 1925 in Mundubbera, Keith 1927 in Charleville, [he was a twin, the other twin, Allen died in 1927, Me, Beverley 1939 Mundubbera, and Adrian 1942 in Mundubbera. There is a Curves here in Hervey Bay and is very popular. Bev
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One of my long-term correspondents lives in Mackay, Queensland, and she's a Bev too.
Harry
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As I mentioned earlier on this thread, the Wanted notice about our ancestor Thomas Welsh says he had "hair of a reddish brown". There is no red hair on my father's side of the family but plenty on my mum's side, and that's the branch of the family that had Thomas Welsh as an ancestor. I have cousins with red hair.
It's interesting to get physical descriptions of your ancestors. You're more likely to get that kind of information if they blotted their copybook and were "advertised" in the newspapers like Thomas Welsh, but men who served in the armed forces or went to the whaling also had their physical appearance noted down in the relevant records.
Harry
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Morning, Harry,
My red hair and fair skin , I think came from my father's side, as I was told by one of my aunties that grandma's mother had the loveliest auburn curly hair. She was born in Somerset. Mum's was more brown than red, but I know very little about her family I do have 3 cousins on the Hall side still alive, but none of them have been bitten by the ancestry bug.When I cam to England in 2007, I met second cousins I did not know existed in Northumberland. My research has been a long journey but I am slowly getting a bit more every now and then. My gr Grandfather, William Hall who married Margaret Phillis Elizabeth Parker it is through her that my Welsh connection comes from, was from what I can gather a rogue, he was a policeman before and a short time after they married, then he became an Innkeeper, then a tram car driver in Newcastle on Tyne. In 1881 I found him in Prison, then in 1891 and 1901 and again 1911, he was in a Lunatic Asylum. I lost track of him after 1915, as he was transferred to another Asylum in Sunderland. My grandfather, their son, Robert Nicholas Hall abandoned his wife pregnant with the 4th child in the Workhouse in Hexham,. In 1909she disappeared leaving the 4 children behind. Story had been she and the Master of the Workhouse had left, but he was still there in 1911, however it turns out he was the father of the 3 girls born one, I in 1910 another a couple of years later, and then a third. the first 2 were registered as Hall, but the last one was Newton, the name of the Master. His wife had died by then so she could do that. They knew nothing of the first family and it came as a very big shock to both them and myself when I found reference and a photo of Margaret Ann Hall nee Bird on Ancestry, it was like looking at my mother. I wrote to the person who had put it on, at first he was sceptical as were the children of the other 2 girls but when I started giving details they had to accept the facts. My mother always said her parents had died when she was a little girl and she was raised by a lady in Corbridge. My mother never spoke of her childhood and when I asked my 2 cousins [the other cousin didn't want to meet me], they both said their fathers never spoke of their childhood either. Is there a way we can correspond vial email at all? Bev.