RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Limerick => Topic started by: alexreg on Friday 30 March 18 00:42 BST (UK)
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I am interested in finding more about my Peagum ancestors from Limerick (probably the city, though it could be the county). Unfortunately all I have right know is the name of an individual, Emily Peagum, born 10 Feb 1866 to 10 Feb 1867, the name of her father, John, and the fact that she later moved to Liverpool, England, where she married and died.
Does anyone know about this branch of the Peagum family? I believe it's a rather rare name, even in Limerick, so I was hoping someone might have information on one of these persons, or advice on how to find out more.
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Welcome to RootsChat
I don't see Emily but there are Pegum families in Limerick and elsewhere no results so far for Peagum.
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Welcome to RootsChat
I don't see Emily but there are Pegum families in Limerick and elsewhere no results so far for Peagum.
Thanks, Sinann. Indeed, I saw a few (not many!) mentions of Peagums in Limerick in the 19th C, but no Emily or John. I did notice a George Peagum who would fit the right timeframe to be Emily's grandfather and John's father potentially, but this is just a guess.
As for additional info: very little, but I am quite sure the family were in the Catholic majority, and I know that John Peagum was a mariner.
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There is a Thomas as well.
All the Pegum and Peagum well George and Thomas in the Applotment Books are in Limerick.
I don't see a John in the shipping records either.
All the marriages I looked at are RC.
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There is a Thomas as well.
All the Pegum and Peagum well George and Thomas in the Applotment Books are in Limerick.
I don't see a John in the shipping records either.
All the marriages I looked at are RC.
Strange, isn't it? Pretty much all I know about Emily comes from her marriage certificate, which details her place of birth as "Limerick, Ireland" and the above info about her father. The same place of birth is listed on the birth certificate of some of her children, who were born in Liverpool, England. I don't know where to go from here.
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Have you looked in the Parish of Cahirnorry?
I came to that from the townlands for George and Thomas in the Applotment books, there is at least one Pegum there as I saw her as witness on a baptism.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0872
I need to sleep now, I'll have a look again tomorrow.
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Thank you, Sinann. I'll give that a read through and see what I find.
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Sadly no Emily Peagum on that register in 1866 or 1867, that I can see (although the writing got difficult to read towards the end). No Peagum/Pegum even.
You were led to Cahernarry by these records, I take it? http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Peagum&firstname=&county=&parish=&townland=&search=Search
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I see a workhouse baptism for Joseph Peagum 1887 to Emily Peagum no father named
http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/baptisms.php
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Only Emily born in Limerick 1886/87 I can see is Emily Palrang but her father isn't John or a mariner.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03492/2283326.pdf
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Sadly no Emily Peagum on that register in 1866 or 1867, that I can see (although the writing got difficult to read towards the end). No Peagum/Pegum even.
You were led to Cahernarry by these records, I take it? http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Peagum&firstname=&county=&parish=&townland=&search=Search
I wouldn't restrict the search to 1886 and 1887, ages on later records can be out by a few years.
There is a Mary/Maria I can't quite remember baptised in 1860 but her father isn't John, not sure what it is possibly Frances.
I can't find any evidence of John any where, I did think perhaps she was misheard and had said George not John and perhaps she was Mary Emily or similar but had dropped the Mary but than George or none of the other men I've seen have anything to do with the sea.
Her mother could have been unmarried and Emily simply made up the father's name, that often happened but there is still no sign of a birth or baptism that I can see.
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I see a workhouse baptism for Joseph Peagum 1887 to Emily Peagum no father named
http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/baptisms.php
Right, that's Joseph Casas, who had the same name as his father, though he was born out of wedlock. Likewise Wilhelmina, though they both used their father's surname. This baptism must be an exception.
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Thanks for looking into this more, Sinann. I'm not sure what to make of this all. The Roots-Ireland search (I'm not a member, but can still see how many results are returned) gives zero results for Emily Peagum, 4 for John Peagum (1 baptism, 2 marriage, 1 census), and 71 Peagum results in total. Do you (or does anyone else) happen to have a subscription, so can check for me? I'm not sure how else to proceed, other than trawling through a lot of records for various parishes across a range of years, which would take me a long long time, especially given how difficult I find it to read the handwriting. :-)
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I don't have a subscription either but if you play around with the year on the free search (+/-5) you will see the baptism does appear until 1881 so it probably this John born 1886
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02586/1955838.pdf
The Census is 1901 so is the same John
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Ballycummin/Dromdarrig/1495347/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Glin/Caheragh/633750/
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The marriages don't appear until 1884 I only see one in Limerick in 1889
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10737/5915164.pdf
It may be the same marriage showing in two different record sets.
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One possibility, no matter how consistent any sources are, is that her age was understated, it wouldn't take much to push her pre civil registration.
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Hell everyone,
I searched and searched the other day to no avail - sorry if this information has already been published.
Re the mariner connection.
1891 2909 / 28. (As transcribed)
1ct, 3 house, Litherland Alley
James Mills 28 yrs Seas Mariner
Catherine Mills 27 yrs
Ganelia Mills 27 yrs b Ireland
Joseph Casas 3 yrs
Williamson Casas 2 yrs
‘ Ganelia’ could read as Emilia
The females are dittoed under Mills
‘Williamson’ reads more as ‘Willihamia’
If the above is Emily, birth is abt 1864
I wonder if the ‘mariner’ father was made up - living amongst mariners
1901 Emily is 38 yrs born abt 1863
1911 Emily is 40 yrs born abt 1870 - most likely to be wrong.
There is a death in Prescot 1922
Emily Casas born abt 1869
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The daughter Willihamia and Emily's marriage to Joseph are on that site dathai posted.
Interesting she is living with a family associated with mariners, I think you could be correct that is where the occupation for her father comes from.
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I don't have a subscription either but if you play around with the year on the free search (+/-5) you will see the baptism does appear until 1881 so it probably this John born 1886
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02586/1955838.pdf
The Census is 1901 so is the same John
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Ballycummin/Dromdarrig/1495347/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Glin/Caheragh/633750/
Yeah, that would seem to rule out Roots-Ireland having any information relevant to her. Thanks for checking into that.
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One possibility, no matter how consistent any sources are, is that her age was understated, it wouldn't take much to push her pre civil registration.
Very possible. I'll keep this in mind now.
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Hell everyone,
I searched and searched the other day to no avail - sorry if this information has already been published.
Re the mariner connection.
1891 2909 / 28. (As transcribed)
1ct, 3 house, Litherland Alley
James Mills 28 yrs Seas Mariner
Catherine Mills 27 yrs
Ganelia Mills 27 yrs b Ireland
Joseph Casas 3 yrs
Williamson Casas 2 yrs
‘ Ganelia’ could read as Emilia
The females are dittoed under Mills
‘Williamson’ reads more as ‘Willihamia’
If the above is Emily, birth is abt 1864
I wonder if the ‘mariner’ father was made up - living amongst mariners
1901 Emily is 38 yrs born abt 1863
1911 Emily is 40 yrs born abt 1870 - most likely to be wrong.
There is a death in Prescot 1922
Emily Casas born abt 1869
Hi heywood,
Thanks very much for your searching. That is actually some new information, and quite interesting.
Her father being a mariner could definitely be made up... I am quite confident that her husband Joseph Casas was a mariner. (He was Spanish, and although I have been unable to identify his origin or birth, probably from Catalonia, judging by his surname.) Evidently he was not living with Emily at the time of those records, though Joseph and Wilhelmina are surely his and Emily's children – their two children they had before getting married. Wilhelmina is my great-grandmother.
Birth years varying a lot is fairly typical, as I understand. So, just possibly her actual surname was Mills? And James and Catherine were her siblings? I don't know where the Peagum name would come from then, but this would definitely explain the lack of records for her or her father in Ireland. I can at least do some more searching based on the assumption that her name was Emilia Mills now. Do you have way to share these records, so I can have a look myself to begin with?
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Did they have son with a name beginning with C.
There is a C Casas on the Kittiwake in 1916, born about 1894 in Liverpool
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/cl/home.jsp
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I don’t think the Mills couple are connected yet. I think she is just dittoed as a name. I would be cautious there.
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Did they have son with a name beginning with C.
There is a C Casas on the Kittiwake in 1916, born about 1894 in Liverpool
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/cl/home.jsp
Yep, Carlos Casas, born 1893-1894 I believe.
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I don’t think the Mills couple are connected yet. I think she is just dittoed as a name. I would be cautious there.
I see. Do you think there is any route to pursue now, anyway? Do you have a link to the records out of curiosity?
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Okay, I've just located the record for the Mills household on Ancestry.com. It seems James and Catherine are a married couple. The "Emilia" is a bit scruffy, so I see why it was mistranscribed as "Gonelia", but given that's not a name, and comparing the 'E' and 'm' with other versions of the letter on the page, I'm quite confident it's "Emilia". Now, it's quite possible as you say that her surname was just incorrectly dotted. But it could also be that she's a sister of James Mills, and the Peagum name came from somewhere else. Unlikely, especially given James is indicated as being born in Liverpool, but I don't want to rule out either possibility at this stage.
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So, I've been looking at the birth records for Emily Peagum's children, to see if they might reveal an insight. Not a lot, but at least I have some names of godparents now:
Joseph Peagum, born 1887
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2180/engl56170_282-nic-4-3_m_00044?pid=300169606
godmother: Margarita McCabe(?)
Wilhelmina Casas, born 1889
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2180/engl56170_282-pet-1-7_m_00882?pid=300707839
godfather: William Park/Pach
godmother: Margarita McClean
George Casas, born 1901
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2180/engl56170_282-svp-1-4_m_00526?pid=301519518
godmother: Anna Charlotta Soderberg
Any advice on what to do with this information?
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The John Pegum b 1886 was my grandfather. I don’t have an Emily in my tree, I’m afraid.
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The John Pegum b 1886 was my grandfather. I don’t have an Emily in my tree, I’m afraid.
Thanks for the information anyway. Do you happen to have any John Pegum's further back in your family tree? I'm starting to suspect Peagum was not the surname she was born with perhaps, but rather adopted it.
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Sure! John’s father was James b 1849, and his father was Stephen b 1805. After that I’m guessing though my best guess is Thomas born around 1780. Stephen had a brother, Thomas born around 1802.
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Sure! John’s father was James b 1849, and his father was Stephen b 1805. After that I’m guessing though my best guess is Thomas born around 1780. Stephen had a brother, Thomas born around 1802.
Thanks Joanna. That means James could just about be Emily's father, if he was about 20-21 when she was born. The name "John" for her father on her marriage certificate is still unexplained though, as is lack of any baptismal record...
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I did a bit more searching today, and turned up a couple of tentative candidates...
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8767&h=15844927&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3372&_phstart=successSource
George Peagam b. 1839
Pros: right age to be Emily's father, clearly a mariner
Cons: wrong name according to marriage record (should be John), born in Devon (no evidence suggesting *he* wasn't, although we have records suggesting Emily was born in Limerick, Ireland)
This may be clutching at straws, but Emily also had a son named George. And her grandfather and an uncle were both named William, so perhaps a connection to Emily's daughter's name 'Wilhelmina'. William is a common name, George slightly less (as far as I know), and Wilhelmina much less so. I'm also wondering if Emily could have named George as her father but the scribe misheard? I mean, they at least have the same initial sound... yep, I'm trying hard to make excuses here.
Then a few records from https://www.myheritage.com/names/john_pegum. Sadly I can't view the full information, as I don't have a membership. If anyone could help me out here, I would be much obliged.
John Thomas Pegum, 1867 - 1934
John Thomas Pegum was born on month day 1867, at birth place, to George Pegum and Bridget Pegum (born O'Sullivan).
George was born on October 1 1839, in Limerick.
Bridget was born on ABT1851 1833, in Co. Limerick.
John had 3 sisters: Josephine (?) Pegum and 2 other siblings.
^ I am wondering if one of his siblings could be Emily. Also, just perhaps his father George Peagum could be the Devon one mentioned above?
John William Pegum, 1879 - 1960
John William Pegum was born on month day 1879, to Charles Pegum and Elizabeth Pegum (born Grim).
Elizabeth was born on April 6 1856.
John had 4 siblings: Edith Pegum and 3 other siblings.
^ Could Emily be one of his siblings perhaps?
John Jr. Pegum
John Jr. Pegum was born to John William Pegum and Martha Mattie Pegum (born Brinkman).
John was born on January 11 1879.
Martha was born on April 18 1889.
John had 4 siblings: Evangeline Edith Olson (born Pegum) and 3 other siblings.
^ Could Emily be one of his siblings perhaps?
So, if anyone has a MyHeritage membership, and could perhaps investigate these leads, I would be much obliged!
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Following up to the George Peagam (first person of previous post), I uncovered some other interesting records:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=3145&h=43180293&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3398&_phstart=successSource
Name: George S Peagam
Publication Year: 1877
Address: 15 Bradshaw St. Gt. Cheatham
Residence Place: Lancashire, England
Occupation: Traveller
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=3145&h=43180293&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3398&_phstart=successSource
Name: George Peagam
Publication Year: 1879
Address: 231 Liverpool St. Salford
Residence Place: Lancashire, England
Occupation: Traveller
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=6820&h=387849&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3398&_phstart=successSource
Name: George Saml Peagam
Event Date: 6 Jul 1886
Event Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Session: Michaelmas
Quarter Session Place: Manchester
Record Type: Petitions
Year Range: 1886
Reference Information: QSP 4235/1-189
So, evidently a George Samuel Peagam was living in souther Lancashire (first Cheatham, then Salford) in the late 1870s and 1880s. The job description "traveller" is rather curious, I must say. Although this is not Liverpool (more the suburbs of modern Manchester), these places are of course very close to Liverpool. A possible reason for Emily living there (from at least 1887 as we know)?
Other records, less likely to be of interest:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1904&h=4503088&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3398&_phstart=successSource
Name: George Cole Peagam
Death Date: 10 Feb 1878
Death Place: Devon, England
Probate Date: 30 Mar 1878
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1904&h=17410631&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3398&_phstart=successSource
Name: George Peagam
Death Date: 23 Aug 1940
Death Place: Devonshire, England
Probate Date: 14 Feb 1941
Registry: Oxford, England
Anyway, I think this George Peagum link is an interesting one, even if it's far from conclusive yet... what do you guys think?
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George Peagam b abt 1827 Plymouth
1881 living in Manchester
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-C6MQ
1871 visiting his brother, perhaps. No children with him.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFT4-5DK
I can’t find him on FS in 1861 but here is the reference 1861 2969/95/2
He is a commercial traveller with no children apparently.
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George Peagam b abt 1827 Plymouth
1881 living in Manchester
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-C6MQ
1871 visiting his brother, perhaps. No children with him.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFT4-5DK
I can’t find him on FS in 1861 but here is the reference 1861 2969/95/2
He is a commercial traveller with no children apparently.
Thanks for that info. Evidently not the same Peagum as the one born in 1839 and in the Royal Navy (also born in Devon). So I'd definitely be interested in more records on him still... sadly can't find any.
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Your links don’t work- they just go to ancestry search page so I don’t know what you are linking to unfortunately.
However, there is a George Peagam born abt 1839, South Molton, Devon in the Navy in 1861.
I can only see him in censuses 1841 , 1851 and 1861.
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Your links don’t work- they just go to ancestry search page so I don’t know what you are linking to unfortunately.
However, there is a George Peagam born abt 1839, South Molton, Devon in the Navy in 1861.
I can only see him in censuses 1841 , 1851 and 1861.
That's odd the links don't work. Indeed, this is the George Peagam I was referring to though. Do you think he is a candidate worth investigating further? It is odd how he disappears from the records after 1861, unless he died young, and the death record is not easy to find... of course, we'd need some sort of evidence tying him to a daughter named Emily.
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I've spotted at least two other 19th C George Peagam's from Devon in the records, but I just noticed there's an 1875 Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Admissions and Discharges record for a George Peagam, as well an 1890 London Electoral register for a George Peagam living in Strand.
https://www.ancestry.com/search/?name=George_Peagum&birth=1839&location=3257.3250&priority=english
Even if these records don't match the 1839 George Peagam from Devon, perhaps the lack of post-1861 records could be explained by him being in Ireland? I'd still really like to get hold of the MyHeritage record in the previous post that mentions a George Pegum born in Limerick in Oct 1839, and his son John Thomas born in Limerick in 1867, among other siblings. One of the birthplaces could possibly be wrong, and they could refer to the same person. (The Peagam vs. Pegum spellings don't bother me, since they would presumably be pronounced the same.)
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Hello
I do have a subs and have some info for you. Would you like to email me and I’ll reply? It’s jpegum and then the gmail bit
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I just found a Patrick Joseph Peacum born in Limerick in 1872, to a John Peacum (the purported name of Emily's father). Here's the record on Ancestry.com:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61039&h=154528349&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3606&_phstart=successSource
I wonder if Emily could be his older sister. The register seems rather tatty, so I'm wondering if her birth record was lost even!
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lvz/
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I just found a Patrick Joseph Peacum born in Limerick in 1872, to a John Peacum (the purported name of Emily's father). Here's the record on Ancestry.com:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61039&h=154528349&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3606&_phstart=successSource
I wonder if Emily could be his older sister. The register seems rather tatty, so I'm wondering if her birth record was lost even!
Not everyone has a subscription to Ancestry.
When you say Limerick do you mean Limerick Parish and can you give us the date so we can find it on the NLI site https://registers.nli.ie/
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Mary Peacan b 1866 - same parents
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03453/2267797.pdf
Marriage 1866 Nenagh quarter 1 vol 3 pg 622
John Peacan and Bridget Ryan are on the same page
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I just found a Patrick Joseph Peacum born in Limerick in 1872, to a John Peacum (the purported name of Emily's father). Here's the record on Ancestry.com:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61039&h=154528349&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bLh3606&_phstart=successSource
I wonder if Emily could be his older sister. The register seems rather tatty, so I'm wondering if her birth record was lost even!
Not everyone has a subscription to Ancestry.
When you say Limerick do you mean Limerick Parish and can you give us the date so we can find it on the NLI site https://registers.nli.ie/
Sorry, I forgot about the NLI site...
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Mary Peacan b 1866 - same parents
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03453/2267797.pdf
Marriage 1866 Nenagh quarter 1 vol 3 pg 622
John Peacan and Bridget Ryan are on the same page
Very interesting, thank you. Do you think 'Peacan' was just a mistranscription of 'Peagum'? Also, may I ask you how you found those records? When I entered "John/Mary Peacan/Peagum" on the irishgenealogy.ie search (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/), I found no results for any of the terms.
Anyway, I think this is a good match. Although the record is from Portroe in County Tipperary, this town seems quite near Limerick, and the record clearly indicates John Peacan/Peagum was from Limerick.
I just did a search among my 23andMe DNA Relatives, and lo and behold, a bunch of relatives who listed 'Limerick' as a place of their ancestors and 'Ryan' as a surname turn up! (No Peagum's, but this is still quite telling I think.)
Now, presuming all this is correct, how can we explain the lack of a record for Emily? I'm suspecting either a record that hasn't survived, or one of the Peagum girls we already know about were in fact Emily. Perhaps Emily was a confirmation name, or a name adopted later, since she didn't like her birth name? Just a conjecture.
So far I have:
* Mary Anne, b. 1868
* John Thomas, b. 1870
* Patrick Joseph, b. 1872
* Clara, b. 1875
Since Emily had her first child in 1887, one would expect her to be older than Thomas at the very least, if not the eldest. Then again, it's possible to identify her with Mary Anne, if she later adopted the name Emily/Emilia.
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Thanks dathai, by the way.
For others looking at these results, here's a link that includes Mary Anna, b. 1868, along with the others. She wasn't included in dathai's results because she was actually born in County Tiperrary.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=&namel=peacan&exact=&name2fm=&name2l=&location=&yyfrom=&yyto=&type=B¢ury=&decade=&sort=&pageSize=100&ddBfrom=&mmBfrom=&yyBfrom=&ddMfrom=&mmMfrom=&yyMfrom=&ddDfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyDfrom=&ddPfrom=&mmPfrom=&yyPfrom=&ddBto=&mmBto=&yyBto=&ddMto=&mmMto=&yyMto=&ddDto=&mmDto=&yyDto=&ddPto=&mmPto=&yyPto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&locationP=&keywordb=&keywordm=&keywordd=&keywordp=&event=&district=&submit=Search
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MaryPeacan (Mary Anne) married Michael Fitzgerald in Limerick in 1887.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10823/5947434.pdf
This family seem to use Peacan consistently so it would seem at the moment that it is not your family.
Heywood
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MaryPeacan (Mary Anne) married Michael Fitzgerald in Limerick in 1887.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10823/5947434.pdf
This family seem to use Peacan consistently so it would seem at the moment that it is not your family.
Heywood
Yes, you're probably right. It's interesting that I match genetically with a bunch of Ryan's from the Limerick/Northern Tiperrary area though.
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You can't look sideways without seeing a Ryan in that part of the country, it's a wash with them. :D
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You can't look sideways without seeing a Ryan in that part of the country, it's a wash with them. :D
Haha, fair enough. I was hoping the rarity of the Peagum surname would help me in my search, but it seems to have only proved a hinderance!
Do you have any ideas where to look next? I haven't ruled out the George Peagum from Devon in the Royal Navy, but that's still a very tentative guess! Maybe the Peagum surname wasn't her birth surname, and could be of a stepfather, adoptive parents, relative, or such? I'm going to check tonight on IrishGenealogy.ie through the 129 Emily's born in Limerick, and see if anything interesting shows up.
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I looked at all (I think) of the Peagum type surnames female births in Limerick in the hope of finding a Mary Emily or similar so you might as well try the Emilys of all surnames.
Other than trawling the parish registers I can't think of anything else at this stage.
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I looked at all (I think) of the Peagum type surnames female births in Limerick in the hope of finding a Mary Emily or similar so you might as well try the Emilys of all surnames.
Other than trawling the parish registers I can't think of anything else at this stage.
It's quite perplexing, isn't it? It's like Emily never even existed until she gave birth to her first child!
Anyway, I searched through the records, though I didn't find much of note. There's an Emilia born 1867, no father's name given, to a Margret McGuane – seems a bit tenuous though. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03492/2283308.pdf
Short of hiring a top-notch professional genealogist now, I'm out of ideas! (And I'm not sure how much further they'd get.)
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It is most perplexing.
In your first post, you are quite specific with her birth year yet the censuses show different birth years.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that widening the search helps to find the elusive Emily. :-\
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It is most perplexing.
In your first post, you are quite specific with her birth year yet the censuses show different birth years.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that widening the search helps to find the elusive Emily. :-\
Yeah. I was specific because I assumed the age on her marriage certificate was exact. Then I started doubting that... But you're right, widening the search (even by 10 years either side) doesn't seem to help at all.
I've literally only found one Emily Peagum/Pegum in Great Britain in the 19th C, and this was a woman born in Devon, who seemed to have married a man named Jenkins.
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Hi again folks,
I'm coming back to this search after a bit of time away from it... have a RootsIreland subscription now, so access to better-quality transcriptions. Still, no sign of Emily Peagum. I looked at all Peagum's/Pegum's born in Ireland between the years 1855 and 1870 (the years I considered feasible given her children were born between 1887 and 1901). The closest to that date range is a Marian Peagum, born 16 Jul 1853 (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634984#page/11/mode/1up). Any ideas for where to continue here?
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Volume 1 of the Glencorbry Chronicle has an article on the fishing industry which mentions the Pegum family, specifically Stephen Pegum who had a wholesale business in Glin and previously in Loughill. There is mention of a son Joseph. It also mentions that the industry was in decline from about 1870 and by 1830 the family had moved to Dublin. Their home was Cahara house, Glin. Hope this helps.
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Volume 1 of the Glencorbry Chronicle has an article on the fishing industry which mentions the Pegum family, specifically Stephen Pegum who had a wholesale business in Glin and previously in Loughill. There is mention of a son Joseph. It also mentions that the industry was in decline from about 1870 and by 1830 the family had moved to Dublin. Their home was Cahara house, Glin. Hope this helps.
Thanks Teresa, that's interesting information. Do you mean 1930? I don't think Stephen would have been Emily's father, but I believe George Pegum was his brother, and he could have been. Do you know whether the family was Catholic or Anglican?
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You are right, I did mean 1930!
While I have done a lot of searching of the Glin Catholic parish records (1851to about 1880 ish) I don't recall seeing the name Pegum, but I just checked the 1901 census when Stephen,49, and his sister Mary were living at Caharagh and four children, Stephen J 13, James 10, Joseph P 8, nephews and Anne M 7 niece. All were RC and born in Limerick, not necessarily Glin. I also checked out the 1911 census and as well as the ages not being consistent there were the same number of Pegums in Limerick,18 with the two children, 7 and 5, of George and Margaret born in Sydney NSW, an Australian connection. ( Probably quite unconnected but I am sure years ago I saw Pegums as the name of a restaurant in the Blue Mountains, about 2 hours west of Sydney!). Could be worth checking NSW BDM records for Pegums. Interestingly in March 1848 the owner of Cahara House, Glin, Richard Sleeman, had the house which I presume to be where the Pegums were living later, up for sale. The advert was copied in the same journal and showed the house to be quite grand - 2 drawing rooms, a dining parlour, 7 sleeping apartments, hall and office. Good luck with your research.
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Thanks very much, Teresa. It's certainly intriguing information. No idea if they're relatives of mine still, let alone direct ancestors, but sounds like it's worth investigating!
You are right, I did mean 1930!
While I have done a lot of searching of the Glin Catholic parish records (1851to about 1880 ish) I don't recall seeing the name Pegum, but I just checked the 1901 census when Stephen,49, and his sister Mary were living at Caharagh and four children, Stephen J 13, James 10, Joseph P 8, nephews and Anne M 7 niece. All were RC and born in Limerick, not necessarily Glin. I also checked out the 1911 census and as well as the ages not being consistent there were the same number of Pegums in Limerick,18 with the two children, 7 and 5, of George and Margaret born in Sydney NSW, an Australian connection. ( Probably quite unconnected but I am sure years ago I saw Pegums as the name of a restaurant in the Blue Mountains, about 2 hours west of Sydney!). Could be worth checking NSW BDM records for Pegums. Interestingly in March 1848 the owner of Cahara House, Glin, Richard Sleeman, had the house which I presume to be where the Pegums were living later, up for sale. The advert was copied in the same journal and showed the house to be quite grand - 2 drawing rooms, a dining parlour, 7 sleeping apartments, hall and office. Good luck with your research.
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Hi Alex,
I may be connected to you through John Pegum!
My 4x great grandfather was Thomas Pegum born c1802 in Limerick. He married Anne Quinlan c1822 and they had 3 children:
Mary Anne 1823
Alicia 1825
John 1827
Thomas was part of the 86th Regiment.
I am connected through his second marriage to Bridget Keane.
They had a daughter Ellen before coming to New Zealand as part of the Fencibles in 1847.
I have John in my tree as father to Emily on her Liverpool marriage certificate.
I look forward to hearing from you
Kind regards
Belinda
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Just adding some links for others who might be able to help-
....but I just checked the 1901 census when Stephen,49, and his sister Mary were living at Caharagh and four children, Stephen J 13, James 10, Joseph P 8, nephews and Anne M 7 niece. All were RC and born in Limerick, not necessarily Glin.
1901 census - Pegum
House 15 in Caheragh (Glin, Limerick).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Glin/Caheragh/1505036/
https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/shanid/kilfergus/glin/caheragh/
Anna Maria Pegum born November 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02277/1855416.pdf
Joseph Patrick Pegum born November 1892
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02320/1869377.pdf
James Pegum born April 1890
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02424/1903039.pdf
Stephen Joseph Pegum born October 1887
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02532/1938014.pdf
All born at Glin (or Caharra [sic]) with MMN Moloney.
Both parents died between 1894 and 1897.
James PEGUM married Anna MOLONEY on 25 June 1884 at Donoughmore [sic] RC Church, Co Limerick. Stephen Pegum (Jnr?) was a witness.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10905/5983539.pdf
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Two older brothers born 1885 and 1886.
Thomas at Cornmarket Row, Limerick.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02641/1974090.pdf
John Stephen at Glin.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02586/1955838.pdf
Both are pupils at Mungret College in 1901.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Ballycummin/Dromdarrig/1495347/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000991014/
Mungret College
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6089962#map=17/52.63121/-8.68043
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John Stephen at Glin.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02586/1955838.pdf
John Stephen Pegum married Mary Constance O'Flynn on 29 October 1913 at the church of the Catholic University, Dublin. One of the witnesses was his brother Joseph Patrick Pegum. John's profession appears to be M.D. (Medical Doctor?).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09898/5596685.pdf
First child, Mary Constance Pegum born September 1914.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01396/1574114a.pdf
KG
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….also checked out the 1911 census and as well as the ages not being consistent there were the same number of Pegums in Limerick,18 with the two children, 7 and 5, of George and Margaret born in Sydney NSW….
George & Margaret Pegum - 1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Limerick_No__4_Urban/South_Circular_Road/630445/
John S Pegum a medical doctor in 1911 census
No sign of Anna Pegum
House 1 in Caheragh (Glin, Limerick).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Glin/Caheragh/633750/
Ellen Margaret Pegum was ten in the 1911 census (above).
Here she is, born Helena Margaret in June 1901 at Turagh. MMN Ahern
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01948/1752997b.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/owneybeg/tuogh/cappamore/turagh/
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Hi Alex,
I may be connected to you through John Pegum!
My 4x great grandfather was Thomas Pegum born c1802 in Limerick. He married Anne Quinlan c1822 and they had 3 children:
Mary Anne 1823
Alicia 1825
John 1827
Thomas was part of the 86th Regiment.
I am connected through his second marriage to Bridget Keane.
They had a daughter Ellen before coming to New Zealand as part of the Fencibles in 1847.
I have John in my tree as father to Emily on her Liverpool marriage certificate.
I look forward to hearing from you
Kind regards
Belinda
Hi Belinda,
Thanks for your message! I think we were briefly in touch on Ancestry.com a few years ago, but it's nice to hear from you again in any case. I certainly remember looking into your Thomas Peagum/Pegum and reading about his interesting and eventful life.
I certainly believe our Peagum's join up at some point, given the places they lived and the scarceness of the surname, though beyond that requires a bit of guesswork. Let me explain what I know, and excuse me if I already told you... The "John Pegum" listed on my Emily Peagum's marriage certificate (as you rightly pointed out) was a source of confusion to me for a long time. I found evidence of a single John Peagum in Limerick, but he lived a bit too early. It turns out that Emily was born out of wedlock, and hence was given her mother's surname. Her father was indeed named John, but John Casey, while her mother was Elizabeth Peagum who came from the parish of Cahernarry a.ka. Knockea, and was working as a servant in Kilmallock where she met John Casey. I can imagine that the registrar in Liverpool asked her the name of her father, and she answered simply "John", hence the mistake.
Although neither a civil birth record for Emily exists (she was surely born right around the start of it in 1864) nor a baptism (I'm can only guess why), the situation was eventually clarified by finding a marriage record in Kilmallock, July 1864, between John Casey of Kilfinane and Eliza Pegum, living in Kilmallock. Some very strong DNA matches of Casey descendants in Australia were also important in this conclusion. In fact, their ancestor John Casey emigrated from Kilfinane to Ballarat, Victoria in the 1860s, but I still can't figure out if this is my ancestor (doing a runner) or his half-brother!
Anyway, I know now that Emily's mother Elizabeth Peagum was born in Cahernarry in 1827 to George Peagum and his wife Catherine Brinn (also Burns/Byrnes), and baptised in nearby St Patrick's Church in Limerick city. Beyond that is where it gets really tricky due to the lack of records. A George Peagum was baptised in Limerick city in 1796, the son of Stephen Peagum and Mary Heffernan, though I can't be sure whether he's mine. The question is whether my Stephen Peagum and your Thomas Peagum (the name was often spelt either way) were brothers or first cousins. I'm confident the relationship is no more distant. As you're surely aware, there's another Thomas Peagum born around the same time as yours (maybe a year later) who worked a farm in Cahernarry and died there in 1865. I think it very likely this Thomas Peagum was your first cousin – did you ever look into it? I heard that the Peagum's still run a farm there, or at least did until a few decades ago!
I'd be very glad to hear from you if you have any more information about your Pegum ancestors, especially if we can establish with certitude the relation of Thomas and George and their parentage. Of course, researching Irish Catholics in the 1700s is extremely difficult, but I'd still love to make a breakthrough. Based on my research, all I can really say about the earliest Peagum's in Ireland is that the surname is very rare there, entirely confined to Co. Limerick in the early years, and without mention before the second half of the 1700s. I strongly suspect all Limerick/Irish Peagum's (Pegum's, Pegam's) descend from a single man who made his way over from England in the 1700s. I say England because the name Peagum, originally Peagham, is well attested as a surname there, where it is rare but less rare than in Ireland. It seems to have originated in Devon. In fact, I also have some good DNA evidence of distant roots in Devon (probably on the western side near Cornwall), and would be curious if you've seen anything similar in your results. I don't recall whether we matched on AncestryDNA, but my father certainly has DNA matches who are cousins of yours in New Zealand. Anyway, my suspicion is that the first Peagum to come over to Co. Limerick was a Methodist. (Methodism had a very strong presence in Cornwall and parts of Devon from the earliest years.) If so, the Peagum's would have "gone native" quite quickly in Ireland. Of course, it's possible they were Catholics even back in Devon, although there weren't many at the time.
Kind regards,
Alex
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….also checked out the 1911 census and as well as the ages not being consistent there were the same number of Pegums in Limerick,18 with the two children, 7 and 5, of George and Margaret born in Sydney NSW….
George & Margaret Pegum - 1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Limerick_No__4_Urban/South_Circular_Road/630445/
John S Pegum a medical doctor in 1911 census
No sign of Anna Pegum
House 1 in Caheragh (Glin, Limerick).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Glin/Caheragh/633750/
Ellen Margaret Pegum was ten in the 1911 census (above).
Here she is, born Helena Margaret in June 1901 at Turagh. MMN Ahern
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01948/1752997b.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/owneybeg/tuogh/cappamore/turagh/
Many thanks for these links and references. I'd previously come across the occasional mentions of physicians in Limerick with the name Peagum, but hadn't put it together into anything coherent, so I appreciate that. It looks like Stephen Peagum of Glin, and his son of the same, were both successful fish merchants and the family did very well for one of Catholic commoners during that period.
I have wondered whether the Peagum's may have first settled in Glin when they came to Co. Limerick, although I have no real evidence. Limerick City would have been more likely, though there's also a little evidence they first made their home in the Rathkeale area.
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John Stephen Pegum married Mary Constance O'Flynn on 29 October 1913 at the church of the Catholic University, Dublin. One of the witnesses was his brother Joseph Patrick Pegum. John's profession appears to be M.D. (Medical Doctor?).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09898/5596685.pdf
First child, Mary Constance Pegum born September 1914.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01396/1574114a.pdf
They moved to Newcastle West in Co Limerick after 1914.
Joseph Stephen Pegum born 1918 at Cahara [sic]. His father a physician and surgeon.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01268/1526130.pdf
Randalina Margaret Patricia Pegum born 1919 at Newcastle.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1919/01236/1514222.pdf
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John S Pegum a medical doctor in 1911 census
No sign of Anna Pegum
House 1 in Caheragh (Glin, Limerick).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Glin/Caheragh/633750/
Anna Pegum
Pupil (aged 17) at Laurel Hill Convent Boarding School in 1911 census
House 11 in Laurel Hill Avenue (Limerick No. 4 Urban, Limerick).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Limerick_No__4_Urban/Laurel_Hill_Avenue/631104/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002760413/ (#11)