RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: alexreg on Friday 30 March 18 01:58 BST (UK)
-
I am descended from a certain John William Depear, who emigrated from England to the USA in the 1880s, and am having a hard time pinning down his English roots with any certainty. Here is the information I have on him so far.
Certain
Death certificate: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MZ-WBPN (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MZ-WBPN) (born abt. 1870)
State of Colorado, Division of Vital Statistics
County: Denver
No. 14772
Husband's Name: Depear, John W.
Wife's Name: Revels, Johanna
Place of Marriage: Denver, CO
Date: 4/26/1893 (American format, obviously)
Official who Performed Ceremony: J. H. Brinker
Title: MIN (Minister?)
Address: Denver, CO
1900 US Census
Name: William Depear
Age (inferred): 38
Birth Date: Apr 1862
Birthplace: England
Home: Chicago Ward 24, Cook, Illinois
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Johanna Depear
Marriage Year: 1893
Years Married: 7
Father's Birthplace: France
Mother's Birthplace: France
Years in US: 15
Naturalization: Na
1910 US Census
Name: William De Pear
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt. 1865
Birthplace: England
Home: Chicago Ward 20, Cook, Illinois
Spouse's Name Johanna De Pear
Father's Birthplace: France
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland
Native Tongue: English
Occupation: Proprietor
Industry: Restaurant
Naturalization Status: Naturalized
1920 US Census
Name: Wm Du Pear
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt. 1870
Birthplace: England
Home in 1920: Chicago Ward 18, Cook (Chicago), Illinois
Spouse's Name: Johanna Du Pear
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Occupation: Electrician
Industry: Construction
Naturalization Status: Naturalized
Candidate (John James William Depear, born 1864, Holbeach, Lincolnshire)
Birth registration: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XMZ-T2V (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XMZ-T2V)
1871 England Census
Name: William Depear
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt. 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Matthew Depear (age 45)
Mother's Name: Ann Depear (age 45)
Where born: Holbeach, Lincolnshire, England
Civil parish: Holbeach
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
1881 England Census
Name: John J.W. Depear
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt. 1864
Relationship to Head: Servant
Where born: Holbeach, Lincoln, England
Civil parish: Holbeach
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Street Address: Washway Rd
Occupation: Ag Lab
As you can see, a good deal of conflict in the data! The only thing I can be fairly sure of is that his full name was "John William Depear" (possibly with another middle name too), and that he was later known only by "William". There is also variation between "Depear" and "De Pear". Furthermore, he seems either unsure where his parents originated, or to be lying about it (they vary between France and England). Perhaps there is a French / Huguenot origin to the family, though?
Anyway, what do you think of this candidate? If it's not him, any other suggestions? It's the only reasonable one I could find up to now. (There's a John William Depear born in Greenwich, London in 1851, but this seems too early, and there's also a John William Depear born in 1870, but he died in 1904, Salford, Lancashire. So I've ruled out these two candidates on pretty clear bases.)
-
The child birth born in Holbeach, registered in Dec Qtr 1864 - the GRO Index has him as DEHEAR (their error) and shows his mms as BROWN.
I note your man was 'William' in the 3 US Census 1900, 1910 and 1920. And in 1900, he has 2 sons children - one is a son, named Matthew.
The Holbeach boy born 1864, is listed as William age 6 in 1871, and his parents are listed as Matthew (b abt 1838 Holbeach) and Ann. A quick squiz at the Holbeach BMD indexs show a good number of DEPEARS, the names Mark and Matthew particularly feature.
FreeBMD Marriages: Matthew DEPEAR and Mary Ann BROWN.
Married Jun qtr 1853 in Holbeach.
Their son is with them in 1871, as mentioned - and in 1881 Census is listed as a17 year old servant (not at home).
Thereafter there is no sign of him.
I think he may have left the UK in 1885:
Wm Depear, 20,
In the SS Sardinian, arrived Quebec 31 May 1885.
The DEPEAR / DE PEAR think is not a big issue. That was quite common - and the space was not always put there by the owner of the name either. :)
If you could get your man associated with mms surname 'Brown'........
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Thank you very much for your reply, Ambly. That was excellent that you were able to locate his possible travel across the Atlantic! Arriving in Quebec would explain the lack of immigration documentation in the US, and indeed a seeming lack of naturalisation documentation (despite him claiming otherwise). Do you have a link to this record, so I could save it away? What he did in the years between arriving in Quebec and getting married in Colorado would be then be a mystery, but I suppose it's not hard to imagine him ending up there.
You're right, a mention of his mother's maiden name would really help clinch it. I'm not sure where I'd find that in an American document though. Perhaps the marriage certificate, but it looks like there's precious little on that paper, unless what I linked to above is only a summary, perhaps?
-
Hi :)
You can find and view the image of the passenger list at the Canada Archives site:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/passenger-lists/passenger-lists-1865-1922
This should take you to the page his is on (page 4)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ltz/.
He's abt halfway down page. Ticket number 368622
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hi :)
You can find and view the image of the passenger list at the Canada Archives site:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/passenger-lists/passenger-lists-1865-1922
This should take you to the page his is on (page 4)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ltz/.
He's abt halfway down page. Ticket number 368622
Cheers
AMBLY
Thanks very much, Ambly. I think this makes it very likely this is the John James William Depear of Holbeach, born 1864. The job description "labourer" matches even. To confirm this man is also my ancestor though, and matches the US person, it sounds like I'll need more information from the full marriage certificate... unless you can think of another way?
-
Confirming his father as Matthew will help too, but I agree that mmn Brown would clinch it.
I don't know what US certificates include, but if he married and died in the US then one or both of those certificates might be worth purchasing.
Sometimes obituaries give useful information about the person's life and origins, so perhaps check for one, though many people did not have one of course. ;)
-
Confirming his father as Matthew will help too, but I agree that mmn Brown would clinch it.
I don't know what US certificates include, but if he married and died in the US then one or both of those certificates might be worth purchasing.
Sometimes obituaries give useful information about the person's life and origins, so perhaps check for one, though many people did not have one of course. ;)
Good shout. I have information about his death and burial in August 1929 already, so this might well be worth pursuing!
-
Sadly, no additional information about his parents or birthplace on his marriage or death certificates. Not sure where to go now...
-
Hi I believe this is my ancestor also, would be interesting anything else you have found.
-
Hi Michael. Who do you for sure you’re descended from? I have indeed found out more about the Depear family, though some of it is tentative. Maybe easier to communicate via email?
-
I took a look at most of the evidence and have come to the same conclusion as AMBLY.
Someone else is working on this line. Published on Family Search.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GM2G-QG2
-
I took a look at most of the evidence and have come to the same conclusion as AMBLY.
Someone else is working on this line. Published on Family Search.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GM2G-QG2
Yes, me too, even before I got firmer evidence. :-) As it happens, a few months ago I managed to obtain John William Depear's marriage record in Colorado, and this firmly linked him to the Holbeach John James William Depear. I also had a DNA match on MyHeritage confirming this. Going back beyond the 19th C is the main challenge now... there are some complexities.
-
Looking at this thread, I see that Matthew Depear bp.2/3/1825 Holbeach was the son of Matthew Depear and Jane Harwood married 5/1/1824 Holbeach.
On 1841 census Matthew and Jane are both shown as 40 - bearing in mind that ages were rounded down in 1841 he should in fact be shown as 50. I note that he was a Town Crier. He died in 1842 and was buried 22/4/1842 Holbeach aged 54 (bc.1788). However, he was a couple of years older as he was bp.19/9/1786 Holbeach, son of Matthew Depear and Frances Burton who'd married 22/9/1782 Whaplode.
This Matthew Depear died 1825 and was buried 26/5/1825 Holbeach aged 77. He was in fact bp.9/2/1749 Holbeach, son of Mark and Susan.
Annette
-
Marriage;
16 May 1853, All Saints, Holbeach
Matthew DEPEAR, Gather MATTHEW
Mary Ann BROWN, Father JAMES
Marriage;
03 May 1742, St Mary, Whaplode
Mark DE-PEAR to Susannah SPEEK
Source FreeREG
Trish :)
-
Looking at this thread, I see that Matthew Depear bp.2/3/1825 Holbeach was the son of Matthew Depear and Jane Harwood married 5/1/1824 Holbeach.
On 1841 census Matthew and Jane are both shown as 40 - bearing in mind that ages were rounded down in 1841 he should in fact be shown as 50. I note that he was a Town Crier. He died in 1842 and was buried 22/4/1842 Holbeach aged 54 (bc.1788). However, he was a couple of years older as he was bp.19/9/1786 Holbeach, son of Matthew Depear and Frances Burton who'd married 22/9/1782 Whaplode.
This Matthew Depear died 1825 and was buried 26/5/1825 Holbeach aged 77. He was in fact bp.9/2/1749 Holbeach, son of Mark and Susan.
Annette
Right. This is really complicated, and has had me stumped a while. My Matthew Depear was definitely the child of Matthew Depear born approx 1791 - 1801 and Jane Harwood, born around the same time. There were at least 2, maybe 3 Matthew Depear's born in this area from 1786 - ~1801. Nor am I a descendant of the even older Matthew Depear & Frances Burton (a very young widow when they married, maiden name March), whom I have confirmed was not my ancestor. The one who died 1842 was married to someone other than Jane Harwood; I forget whom. And he was a farmer, never a the town crier.
Now, the Matthew Depear husband of Jane Harwod (and father of Matthew Depear born 1825 husband of Mary Ann Brown) was indeed the town crier, and before that a grocer and draper (i.e. shopkeeper). I have one or two newspaper mentions of him, and he's on the electoral register in 1826. The newspaper mentions his marriage to a "Miss Jane Harlewood", both of Holbeach town, in 1824. Matthew and Jane actually emigrated to the US (first New Jersey and then Brooklyn, NY) in the mid-late 1840s, a few years after the birth of their youngest child. Most of their children accompanied them, except for the ones who were already married, which include my ancestors Matthew Depear and Mary Ann Brown. Matthew died some time after 1850 (in a US census in New Providence, NJ) and 1865 (Jane listed as widow in NY census if I remember right). There's a death record for Jane in the 1870s as I recall.
Now, there is a Matthew Depear born 1790 in Moulton (near Holbeach), who later moved to Holbeach with his parents (as a child), which is the one I consider to be the most likely candidate for my ancestor... not 100% sure though. Not found any record of Jane Harwood's baptism. I entertained the possibility she may be non-conformist, but that would be odd given they married by banns in Holbeach. Possible though. I wonder if she had two names and the names on her baptismal record was different, since a few Harwood's were born around the 1790s to early 1800s in nearby Cowbit and Gosberton.
If anyone has any ideas or thoughts, would be glad to hear.
-
In case anyone is curious, here is the 1850 US federal census showing the Depear family:
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8054&h=4360625&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CYc1151&_phstart=successSource
And the 1865 New Jersey census of the Pick family (Lucy, one of their daughter's, married a Pick, and the mother is living with them by this point). "Hellen" and "Jane" are presumably the mistaken for each other. "Hellen" (Ellen) is a sister of Lucy and another daughter of Matthew/Jane. I presume Matthew is dead by this point. Possibly still alive in 1860 though, since although I can't find him or his wife Jane in the census for that year, Jane is not living with any child of hers that I can tell. I know the son John Depear died in the Civil War in 61/62, since his widow Ellen claims his military pension in 62.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=try&db=General-7218&h=1989035
-
The name David seems important to your Matthew/Jane as they seem too name 3 Sons that died David.
Born 1831/1834/1835 and died 1832/1834/1836
I did also notice that one Ellens Bapt 1838 (Elen on FreeREG) Matthew was a attorney messenger and the 3 Davids above have the same occp for their Father.
The Matthew who was buried 22 Apr 1842 was age 54 (1788)
-
I presume you know that Sarah Jackson was a Widow when she married Matthew Depear?
Matthew was a minor.
Her 1st Marriage was likely to Isaac Jackson 10 Oct 1774, he was from Northamptonshire.
-
The name David seems important to your Matthew/Jane as they seem too name 3 Sons that died David.
Born 1831/1834/1835 and died 1832/1834/1836
I did also notice that one Ellens Bapt 1838 (Elen on FreeREG) Matthew was a attorney messenger and the 3 Davids above have the same occp for their Father.
The Matthew who was buried 22 Apr 1842 was age 54 (1788)
Correct. I suppose he worked as an attorney's messenger either after being a grocer & draper or to supplement his income. This was just before he became the town crier in any case.
The Matthew who died in 1842 was definitely the one born to another Matthew Depear and Frances March (Burton). I have a copy of his will, so I can be even more sure he's not the father of my Matthew Depear.
You are also correct about that Sarah Jackson marrying Isaac Jackson of Northamptonshire first, as far as I can tell.
I just remembered that I managed to rule out the Matthew Depear b. 1790 in Moulton because I found out that he died in Manchester in the 1850s (I think), where he was an eye surgeon. His father is given as an eye surgeon there too, which together with his implied year of birth means it must be that this Matthew Depear moved to Manchester, where he practised as a (very respectable, I believe) eye surgeon.
Altogether, this means my Matthew Depear must be lacking a baptismal record. The two census records I have for him (1841 England and 1850 US) suggest a birth year of 1801/1802. His wife Jane's implied birth year ranges from 1801 (with the caveat of the age rounding rules in thee 1841 UK census) to 1806 (1850 US federal census) to 1791 (1865 NY state census) to 1786 (her US death certificate). I'm more inclined to trust the earlier ones of course, combined with the fact her husband definitely seems to have been born 1801/1802. I find it very strange that neither person apparently has an English baptismal record though.
Finally, I agree David is a significant name. It doesn't seem to recur amongst the Depear's of the area (Depear is a rare surname, and I think they're all descended from a single patriarch of the early 18th or late 17th C). So, I would guess it might be Jane's father's name. Not sure though.
-
Just to throw some more information into the mix, I am descended from another line of Depear's which has a few Matthews in it, but I don't think mine match any of the ones you have already mentioned, although they only come from about 5mins down the road in Whaplode. I guess they might join onto some of these other branches further back.
-
Just to throw some more information into the mix, I am descended from another line of Depear's which has a few Matthews in it, but I don't think mine match any of the ones you have already mentioned, although they only come from about 5mins down the road in Whaplode. I guess they might join onto some of these other branches further back.
Hi Jennifer. Which line are you descended from? The union of Matthew Depear and Frances Burton March? I have some ancestors from Whaplode too (the Brown's lived there). We are surely related, but I would suppose that our trees join up further back in the mid 1700s. Depear certainly isn't a common name. I've actually had trouble locating the baptismal record of my oldest Matthew Depear, born ~1800/1801, but he seems to have ebeen from Holbeach too.
-
Hello folks. I just thought I'd post an update here that I finally managed to resolve my Depear line, and made a few breakthroughs with regards to the origin of the Depear family in Lincolnshire. Specifically, I have come to the conclusion they all descend from a certain Matthew Depear who lived 1669-1720. He was a Walloon (Calvinists of 'Belgian' origin, similar to the Huguenots) born as Mathieu de Lespiere (a surname with several variants, including De La Piere and Du Pire) in Thorney, Cambridgeshire. He moved to Moulton, Lincs (pretty close to Thorney) around 1700, where he died in 1720. He was married twice and fathered at least 5 children. All Lincolnshire Depear's are descended through three of his sons, by my reckoning. Possibly all Depear's in England, even, though it is harder to tell if Matthew's siblings and cousins from Thorney left descendants that settled elsewhere. Through my research, I have mapped out the majority of the Depear's from Lincolnshire until the early 1800s.
Anyway, if anyone is interested in knowing more, I'd be glad to share my findings. Probably the easiest thing to do is send me a private message with your email address, and we can converse from there.