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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: telephonist on Saturday 31 March 18 10:13 BST (UK)
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I am searching for the marriage of Lewis Bradford GILES and Grace (maiden name unknown.
Lewis born Islington England about 1868-1871.
He died in NZ in 1924
I cannot find a marriage in NZ for them and wondering if they married prior to coming to NZ.
Thanks for any leads
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She might well have been Ethel Grace, what do you think ?
Louisa Maud
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Lewis Bradford Giles, registered March qtr 1868 Islington
Mother's maiden name Bradford
Louisa Maud
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He must have emigrated between 1911 and 1913, possibly for the second time
He is shown listed in Conyers Lodge Wellington New Zealand 1913
1910 he appears to live in Wanstead Essex
No marriage I can find in England.
There is a family tree on Ancestry that shows he was a widower when he married Ethel Grace Self in N.Newport News Virginia, if of course this is your man
Louisa Maud
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Emily Grace Self baptised 1874 Chingford Essex
father William
mother Emily Charlotte
1881 she is shown as "step daughter" with a Warren family
Louisa Maud
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Many thanks for your time and replies, I will need to pass this onto other family to see if they know anything of this.
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Death Reg NZ BMD;
1949/29822, Giles - Grace Emily age 77Y
So born c 1872, only a couple of years out from what Louisa Maud found.
Trish :)
EDIT; Did she remarry after 1924?
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Familysearch has;
Marriage;
26 October 1889, Suffolk, Nansemond, Virginia
Lewis Bradford Giles age 25, Parents John Giles and Mary
Elizabeth Perrin age 33, Parents Robert Hall and Hester
Elizabeth must have been a widow.
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Lewis 's wife Grace died 1965 in NZ. Only known as Grace at present.
Thanks for your help.
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Ok, thanks, didnt look at far for her Death Reg.
Do you have the D/C?
Trish :)
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Did she remarry after Lewis died 1924?
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Hello, no i dont have the DC, she never remarried.
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NZ Death Certs have great info on them and I would get it if I was you :)
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Lewis Bradford Giles 25 widowed
Birthplace : London, England
father John Giles
mother Marie Giles
married 31 Dec 1892 Newport News , Virginia
E...Grace Self 19
from Virginia Select Marriages 1785-1940
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Thanks for that Christine53.
So he married twice 1889/1892.
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Emily Grace Self baptised 1874 Chingford Essex
father William
mother Emily Charlotte
1881 she is shown as "step daughter" with a Warren family
Louisa Maud
Hello Louisa, Any chance of seeing where Emily Grace Self may have been in 1891 and 1901 please?
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I have been trying this fathom this out
Ethel Grace was born 1874,
siblings so far
William Wiltshire born 1873
Adela Ellen 1872
1881 RG11/826 FOLIO 25 PAGE 44 Bebbington Croydon
William Warren aged 34 ret lic vict
Emily Warren 30
Adela Ellen Self 9 Step dau
William (Wiltshire) Self8 Step dau
Ethel Grace Self 7 Step dau
Nora E Warren 6 months
All have mother's maiden name as Dunsford, all born Chingford except Nora
1870 marriage Epping Dist
William Self
to
Emily Charlotte Dunsford
Did William change his name?
Still ,looking at census you requested
Louisa Maud
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Hello again, I have been trying to fathom this out too and it does look very like the parents have changed names? Very interesting!
Maybe something awful happened or a big scandal!
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I spent several hours at our local library today looking for more information for this family and came away empty handed. No ideas why they would be listed as step children with seemingly same parents!.Could find no trace of Ethel Grace in the 1891 census . As she married in USA in 1892 I think she make have left before census taken.
Any further hints at all please?
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Surely the most likely explanation is that there were 2 Williams who had children with Emily - William Warren being the second one, so that her older (Self) children were his stepchildren and Nora was his daughter.
If there isn’t a marriage for them it may be that William Self was still alive out there somewhere.
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1871 census: RG10/1639/64/3
Green Farm, Chingford
William Self Head Mar 27 Farmer Surrey Peckham
Emily C Self Wife Mar 21 Essex Chingford
Plus 2 servants.
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By 1881 William Self, 36 b Peckham Rye, is a warehouse storekeeper, “married”, lodging in Buckhurst Hill, Essex.
RG11/1736/75/50.
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Morning!
1871 Lewis is with John(34) & Marie(33)bDevon
elder bro Wm A(4)b IRELAND
younger sis Marie L(8m)
RG10 299 17 p27
Ray
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1881 RG11 108 61 p17
Lewis(13) bmiddlesex, maybe in the "House Brigade" (?)
Inmate
26 Eccleston St, E
St George Hannover Square
R
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Hmm, thanks for this info, I've been trying to find a possible death /divorce for William and Emily nee Self - but no luck, cannot find a marriage for her either to the next William WARREN. Cannot find them on a census in 1891? Any further help out there please?
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William Self is in Walthamstow in 1901 (57 b Peckham) having acquired a new “wife” Sarah, 61 b Bow.
RG13/1629/148/28.
Possible marriage: William Self & Sarah Byford, Sep qtr 1896 West Ham.
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1891 for William Self (47 b Peckham Rye) in Harwich as brother-in-law of Frederick Dunsford.
RG12/1402/142/13.
So he was still in touch with Emily’s family, even though she had long since moved on to another man!
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Thanks for this information, family said there was some 'mystery" unspoken about so maybe this is it!
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I have searched everywhere I can think of for a first marriage for Elizabeth Perrin born Hall - anyone offer further help on this please?
Parents Robert Hall and mother is Hester (unknown)
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Her age is out but everything else adds up?
Marriage;
25 Dec 1871, Lyncombe and Widcombe, Somerset
Elizabeth HALL, Full Age, Father ROBERT Hall (deceased), Cloth Dreser
William Henry PERRIN, Full Age, Bachelor, Gardener, Father HENRY Perrin, Labourer
1861 Census
Twerton, Somerset
Robert HALL, 50, Head, Mar, Cloth Dresser, born Hinton, Somerset
Hester Hall, 50, Wife, Mar, born Turleigh, Wiltshire
Robert Hall, 21, Son, Unm, born Twerton
John Hall, 15, Son, born Twerton
ELIZABETH Hall, 12, Daug, born Twerton
Thomas ASKE, 8, Grandson, born London
1871 Census
Hester Hall, 59, Head, Widow, Pauper, born Turley, Wiltshire
Sarah Hall, 27
Elizabeth Hall, 22 (1849)
1851 Census
Robert Hall, 40
Hester Hall, 37
Sabina Hall, 18
Maria Hall 15
Robert Hall, 11
Jestinia Hall, 9
Sarah Hall, 7
John Hall, 5
Elizabeth Hall, 2
1841 Census
Robt Hall, 30
Esther Hall, 30
Louisa Hall, 11
Setina Hall, 9
Lydia Hall, 7
Maria Hall, 5
Robt Hall, 2
All Census they are living in Twerton
GRO Index;
HALL, ROBERT, Mothers mn KELSON**
GRO Reference: 1839 D Quarter in BATH Volume 11 Page 35
FreeREG has Baptisms in Twerton for;
Louisa 1830
Sabina 1832
Lydia 1834
Maria 1836
Sarah 1838, buried 1838 age 5mths
Robert 1839
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Just noticed a Samuel Kelson age 12, Lab, not born in County on 1841 Census with the Hals +
On same page;
Thos Kelson 1781 Grocer
Margaret Kelson 1796
James Kelson 1816
Maria Louisa Kelson 1816
William Kelson 1838
Catharine Kelson 1840
Robert HALL married Hester KELSON 19 Jul 1830 St Swithin, Walcot, Somerset (Bachelor/Spinster)
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Although Elizabeth Perrin nee Hall said she was 33 when she married 1889 she may have shaved a few years of her age given her spouse to be was 25.
Trish :)
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Also if Thomas Kelson is Hesters Father Margaret is unlikely to be her Mother.
FreeREG has a Marriage 1835 Bath, Thomas Kelson of Twerton, Widower, to Margaret Fortt, Widow
Her Mother is likely SARAH Kelson who was buried Twerton 28 Jan 1821 age 42
1851 Census James Kelson from 1841 Census is born c 1813/14 Bradford, Wiltshire.
1851 Census Thomas Kelson c 1779 Bradford
GRO Death Reg;
KELSON, THOMAS, age 79 ***
GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 551
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Lastly William Henry Perrin is easy to find 1851/1861/1871 Census.
Born c 1846 English Combe, Somerset
Death Reg Bath 1875 age 29
Possible Child, Mothers mn Hall reg Bath;
Frederick Perrin 1874
He died same year.
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Well maybe not the last above; ;D
1881 Census has a Elizabeth Perrin born c 1849 Tiverton, Somerset (image may be Twerton)
A Widow, Ladies Maid, living in the Tate Household in Sevenoaks, Kent.
So entirely possible she ended up in the US by 1889.
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Wow so much to take in,
thanks so much for all your assistance here. So if its the Eliz we are hoping to find she was actually almost 20 years older than her husband to be Lewis Bradford Giles! Maybe she died in childbirth in Virginia USA.
Gosh so many widow/widowers in this story!
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Have a good look over all of it but I am pretty sure it is the right Elizabeth Hall.
Elizabeth born 1849 and Lewis born 1864 so 15 years difference not impossible.