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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: jolby on Saturday 31 March 18 22:03 BST (UK)
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good evening,
I'm hoping for some assistance please with my 3xg granddad, his name was George page and on the 1841 census, reg district Marylebone, Piece 680 Book 14 Folio 10 Page number14 . he was born 1837, parents Charles and Sarah, this is the only census I have on him. I have his marriage to Emily page in dec 1861 in Bethnal green where he is listed as full age and dad Charles Page a wheelwright.
In the 1871 census his wife Emily is listed as a widow and remarries after this. His last child was born 1868 so he died between 1868/1871 I'm unsure of which is his death entry. id like to find him in 1861 and 1851 but equally id like to find his siblings and parents as I cant find any of them other than the 1841 census, also I do not have the marriage for Charles and Sarah and that would give me Sarah's maiden name enabling me to go further with my search.
Any assistance would be wonderful as I'm quite stuck
thank you
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Firstly transcribe the 1841 in full.
Kids after 1837 will provide a mother's maiden name
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thank you for your reply,
It was said to me previously to put the piece and folio etc on for census reference?
and there is just George and William that could possibly be on the gro but I wasn't able to find ones with the same mums name, as I believe it was not law to register at this time I thought it possible they may not be registered.
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Hello,
The only 1861 marriage I can see is December quarter Bethnal Green where George Page and Emily Plane are on the same page. You have him marrying Emily Page - is that right?
What is his occupation in the marriage certificate?
Heywood
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gosh yes sorry married an Emily plane and became a page, my mistake, his occupation is a perfumer
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The family from the 1841 census:
Charles Page M 30 Wheelwright & Tiresmith(?)
Sarah Page F 40
Chas Page M 6
George Page M 5
William Page M 3 all born in county
Please remember that, for the 1841 census only:
Adult ages were rounded down to a multiple of 5 years
No relationships were given
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Bankruptcy for Charles in 1842?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lue/
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thank you
interesting a bankruptcy, I have not come across one before so not sure whether they would change occupation...... or what really. hummm that gives me something though so thanku
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Sarah in the 1841 census with Charles is not his first wife.....
12 Oct 1839, St George Hanover Square
Charles Page, widower, Wheelwright of High Street, father Thomas Page, farmer, married Sarah Woodbridge, spinster, father Thomas Woodbridge, farmer, witnessed by John & Mary Grove.
Given the witnesses names it is interesting that there is a marriage for a Charles Page & Jane Groves, 21 March 1837, St Martin in the fields.
Jo :)
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Charles Page and Jane Grove appear to be a different family, they had a son Charles John Page born 1838 St Martin in the Fields registration district mothers maiden name Grove.
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Sarah in the 1841 census with Charles is not his first wife.....
12 Oct 1839, St George Hanover Square
Charles Page, widower, Wheelwright of High Street, father Thomas Page, farmer, married Sarah Woodbridge, spinster, father Thomas Woodbridge, farmer, witnessed by John & Mary Grove.
Given the witnesses names it is interesting that there is a marriage for a Charles Page & Jane Groves, 21 March 1837, St Martin in the fields.
Jo :)
There is a marriage in 1849
St George in the East Tower Hamlets 4th November 1849
Charles Page full age widower Eating House Keeper Father:Thomas Page, Farmer
Eliza Woodbridge father Thomas Woodbridge, Farmer
Both at address 38 Wapping Street
Witnesses Pryce German and Jane Darwell
Heywood
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A notice in the Oxford Chronicle 1849
......died at her residence, High Street, Wapping, age 38, Sarah Page, wife of Charles Page and third daughter of Thoma Woodbridge farmer of Ickford, Buckinghamshire
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A notice in the Oxford Chronicle 1849
......died at her residence, High Street, Wapping, age 38, Sarah Page, wife of Charles Page and third daughter of Thoma Woodbridge farmer of Ickford, Buckinghamshire
Just found that :)
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This might be the couple above. Only because Eliza was born in Ickford.
1851 Newington, Surrey
Charles Page head 42 fishmonger Norfolk
Eliza Page wife 39 Ickford, Bucks.
George Page son 14 Birmingham
William Page son 12 Marylebone
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Yes, I wondered about the birth of George - Birmingham ??? But looks good.
There is also a marriage for an Eliza Woodbridge, father Thomas a farmer to Charles Pepper in 1854
St Leonard's Shoreditch but she is 28 yrs old on marriage so perhaps not the same person.
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oh my goodness thank you so much, I have been going around on this one for months >:(. I am sorry if I did not put enough information on in the first place, I will learn.
I have written it all down and will go away and decipher it ;D . I am new to the London side of ancestry
thanks again
jo.x
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thank you for your reply,
It was said to me previously to put the piece and folio etc on for census reference?
It is very helpful to give reference numbers for those of us with access to paid sites and personally I love to see requests that have given this information. ;D Unfortunately some people that give lots of help on here only have access to free sites such as familysearch where a number alone is no use at all so for them to be able to help you they do need a bit more information :)
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Hi jo,
This might be of interest :)
Marriage
February 1st 1864 Bethnal Green Parish Church
William Page Fishmonger, Caledonian Road Father Charles Page Coach Builder :-\
Eliza Carter, father William Carter , Brewer
Witnesses George Page and Emily Page - with signatures :)
As Charles has been a Wheelright and Tyre... perhaps that is where the Coach builder comes from- if it is the correct Charles :-\
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I noticed earlier that there was a Charles Page b.1835 and a George Page b.1836
Both baptised in Birmingham - parents Charles and Eliza Page - coach builder
I dismissed them at the time as there is a Charles Page to Eliza Smith marriage 1834 Birmingham, but Charles’ signature is very different to the one who married Sarah Woodbridge.
Now, after heywood’s find, I’m not so sure
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thank you rosie99 for the clarification as to what information I should put on my topics :D
Heywood that does look like a possible for William, I will look at that, many others have him as going to Australia but with nothing to back it up other than a name and age from England and obviously that could be anyone. if in 1851 (mentioned here) Charles was a fishmonger then its possible William also followed and Charles went back to what he knew to maintain coaches or at least the wheels.
But then that doesn't go with the 1849 marriage where he was (if him) a eating house keeper
:(. theres a lot for me to work with here that's great ;D
lilly m went to post and yours came up. im going to print all this off as its one big jigsaw! at the moment, I will not lie, im totally confused
:-\
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Sometimes fathers’ occupations show current/former/the one at birth of child etc so who knows :)
There is a death of Eliza Page March quarter 1839 vol 1 pg 170 Marylebone.
Burial St Marylebone 36 yrs of Little Barlow Street :-\ just in case she is Eliza Smith
Charles would have married within months which often happened.
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Re above address for Eliza
There are marriage announcements for Charles Page, High Street to Sarah Woodbridge as mentioned earlier though.
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If that is our William’s marriage, he is still in Caledonian Rd in 1871 266/54/2 born Marylebone.
Also still married to Eliza and a Fishmonger.
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I think he must be the brother, as the George and Emily signatures are so similar to their marriage ones
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so, for definite so far, I have that Charles married Sarah Woodbridge in 1839 as he is a wheelwright and living at high street. he was married before this means Sarah was not George's mum.
bankrupt in 1842
Sarah dies in 1849.
so that's definite thanks to you guys ;D
then I have a marriage to an Eliza in 1834 Birmingham and death in 1839 Marylebone
and
a marriage to eliza in 1849 just after Sarah dies and that Eliza comes from the same place Sarah's dad did ikford bucks, possibly sisters in which case he was fishmonger in 1851.
the marriage for William I think is right taking into naccount the witnesses as George and Emily page
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There is a death of Eliza Page March quarter 1839 vol 1 pg 170 Marylebone.
Burial St Marylebone 36 yrs of Little Barlow Street :-\ just in case she is Eliza Smith
Apologies if I'm duplicating I'm wondering if this baptism for William is the son of the above Eliza Page - edited/added (Eliza was buried on 29th January 1839)
William born 19th January baptism date 1st Feb 1839 St Marylebone son of
Chas Page, occ Wheel wright & Eliza of 3 Little Barlow Street
and whether this is his birth entry from GRO indexes
William PAGE mmn BRIGGS
1839 M Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01 Page 137
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That super and ties in with the death and occupation Ladyhawk.
I saw the Briggs birth before but there are others I think inlcuding another William - I think. It was before we found this other information so I have not checked again though.
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yes thank you good find lady hawk, that is the same Eliza's death and child, and without just assuming that is a pretty good chance it is my ancestors, just giving more puzzles though lol ??? cant find a marriage for a page to a Briggs
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I'm so sorry to be a pain but where did you see the marriage to Sarah Woodbridge please? I can see the index but that doesn't given the info that you have, so I'm not looking in the wrong places >:( ...............found it now thank you all
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yes thank you good find lady hawk, that is the same Eliza's death and child, and without just assuming that is a pretty good chance it is my ancestors, just giving more puzzles though lol ??? cant find a marriage for a page to a Briggs
GRO shows these births with mmn Briggs in Marylebone
1839 March quarter William
1840 September quarter William George
1845 June quarter Alfred
The first one might fit with Eliza's death as Ladyhawk found - the others could be a different family.
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The Page/Briggs registrations all seem to fit with another family. Although they are without the name of Briggs and have the usual inconsistencies to keep us all on our toes.
Marylebone baptisms:
23/12/1840 William Irving Page
18/3/1845 Alfred Page
Both living in Ulster Place - Parents William & Ann Irving
Marylebone burials:
William Page 7/6/1840 15 months Burne Place
Alfred Page 10/12/1846 1 year 9 months Ulster Place
William Page mar. Ann Irving Barker (spinster)
22/08/1839 St.Pancras
???
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Another burial:
Marylebone Sept.1837 William Page 11 months Little Barlow Street
This matches with George Page’s twin brother born 6th October 1836 in Birmingham - parents Charles & Eliza - coach builder
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i got myself in a right cuffuddle over this last night so walked away, but had a sleepless night with it all going around in my head! so here I am again! lol.
so lily m, that birth entry is not for mine meaning Briggs is out - that's good as I couldn't link it. but the baptism for William in 1839 and death for Eliza in 1839 still stands, meaning that the eliza smith is still a possibility. which also means George came from Birmingham.
having looked at the marriage for William - a fishmonger and the witnesses and the signatures I am sure it is my William - George's brother. that leads to the 1851 census of Charles a fishmonger so my question is, would they have lived in surrey? I have searched the 1861 for a fishmonger and there's nothing obvious I'm not familiar with these districts.
I can see that Charles may have taken another job after bankruptcy and that's how William got into fish trade and then Charles went back to what he knew when he could , by George's marriage in 1861 he was a wheelwright .
???
just gone to post and lily m you have found a burial for William, but that rules out the William surviving the baptism of 1839
Oh my days!!!
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The William buried 1837 was George’s twin brother born in Birmingham.
Charles and Eliza then went on to have another William in 1839
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yes I read the date wrong phew 1837 not 1839!
I was having trouble finding the baptism for the William in Birmingham but its over the page, well spotted that thank you, that's the type of thing I need to remember to turn the page :-[
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It looks as though your Charles was certainly a tryer! Albeit an unfortunate one.
His son, Charles, was born 1835 Meridien Street.
This is from The Gazzette 30th January 1837 informing any creditors that the prisoner has been discharged:
Charles Page, formerly of Mereden Street, Birmingham, Coach Maker, then of 106 Bradford Street Birmingham, Beer Shopkeeper and Coach Maker, then of Congreve Street, Beer Shop and Eating Housekeeper, Coach Maker and Hackneyman, then of Mort-row, Birmingham, Coach Maker and Hackneyman and late of 26 Castle Street, Oxford-market, Middlesex, Coach Maker, out of business.
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prisoner ? oh my word! he certainly was a jack of many trades :-\.
the eating house keeper is the same as the marriage in 1849 to Eliza.
So that explains the move from Birmingham to London as we no that happened by 1837 as that's when William died but born Birmingham 1836. phew! I actually feel its tying in now.
I am very grateful and can learn a lot from you all on here ;D that article lists mort row which is the address on George and William baptism ;D ;D
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I wonder what else he managed to fit in between Ludham, Norfolk c.1810 (from 1851 census) to 1835 in Birmingham! 😳
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It has worked out really well especially with the trades and places. As Lily says, what a trier :o
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yes thank you so much, im just sat here now printing it all off and placing it in the correct order, its nice to get a story of a person rather than just bmd's . I suspect he didn't have an easy life but wasn't exactly as straight as they come ::)
I personally would never had made the connection to George born in Birmingham! just proves to think out the box and also not to assume as I did that the 1841 census was sarah the mum :o