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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: geordiesue on Monday 02 April 18 21:41 BST (UK)
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Hi
I`m trying to piece together the Grieves family from Blyth. My husbands great grandfather was born Robert Grieves in 1864 in Blyth Northumberland to Eleanor Grieves (Ellen) who was unmarried. She also has a daughter Ellen in 1866. On the 1871 census Elleanor, Robert and Ellen are living in Blyth with Edward Clark and they have a baby girl named Frances Clark. I haven`t found a marriage for Eleanor Grieves and Edward Clark but by the 1881 census Robert and Ellen have their step fathers surname Clark and Edward and Elleanor go on to have another 3 daughters.
On the 1841 census I found an Elleanor Grieves age 2, with sister Elizabeth age 6 with parents Thomas and Sarah in Earsdon. The name on the census states Griener.
On the 1851 census Elizabeth aged 16, Eleanor aged 12, George 10, William 8, Charles 6, Mary A 3 and James 11 Months are living in Blyth with parents Thomas Grieves born abt 1805 in Foxdale, Westmoreland and Sarah ? born abt 1811 in Scotland. The family are living in Blyth
I tried looking at GRO to see if I could get a maiden name for Sarah to help search for a possible marriage but I have found either it dosent recognise the information from the birth indexes from ancestry or family search or the ones it does recognise I am getting different maiden names.
Elizabeth Grieves born abt 1835 Blyth Northumberland, No Birth found
Eleanor Grieves born 1838 Oct=Nov-Dec reg Tynemouth volume 25, page 357 no matching results found
George Grieves born abt 1841 Blyth, Northumberland No birth found
William Grieves born 1844 Jan-Feb-Mar reg Tynemouth volume 25 page 429 Mothers maiden name Jewels
Charles Grieves born abt 1846 Jan-Feb-Mar reg Tynemouth volume 25 page 410 no matching results found
Mary Ann Grieves born about 1848 Blyth, Northumberland No birth found
James Grieves born 1850 April-May-June reg Tynemouth vol 25 page 462 no matching results found
There is a marriage of a Thomas Grieves in 1825 in Gosforth to Sarah Ogilvy but there just seems too big of a gap from the marriage to the first child
Where do I go to from here. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated ???
Susan
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Hi,
Do you have the 1866 baptism of Ellen? Its here on familysearch if not: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9D4-YTB
Born 28th Nov 1866 & baptised 1st Dec 1866 at Christ Church, Tynemouth.
Am only seeing the marriage that you found & no others at present. I wonder if they married in Scotland as Sarah was born there?
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
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Hi,
Do you have the 1866 baptism of Ellen? Its here on familysearch if not: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9D4-YTB
Born 28th Nov 1866 & baptised 1st Dec 1866 at Christ Church, Tynemouth.
Am only seeing the marriage that you found & no others at present. I wonder if they married in Scotland as Sarah was born there?
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
Hi David
Thank you for looking. I did see the birth for Eleanors daughter Ellen. I thought I might have found the births of Eleanor and her siblings to try and get an idea of the maiden name but its going to be quite hard to find a marriage even if I did lol ::)
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Elizabeth Grieves born abt 1835 Blyth Northumberland, No Birth found
Eleanor Grieves born 1838 Oct=Nov-Dec reg Tynemouth volume 25, page 357 no matching results found
George Grieves born abt 1841 Blyth, Northumberland No birth found
William Grieves born 1844 Jan-Feb-Mar reg Tynemouth volume 25 page 429 Mothers maiden name Jewels
Charles Grieves born abt 1846 Jan-Feb-Mar reg Tynemouth volume 25 page 410 no matching results found
Mary Ann Grieves born about 1848 Blyth, Northumberland No birth found
James Grieves born 1850 April-May-June reg Tynemouth vol 25 page 462 no matching results found
These births seem to tie up with some of the names you are searching, although there are two distinct MMN's, plus overlapping births in 1846 :-\
GREIVES, ELEANOR ... (3 dots, not a dash) 1838 D Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 357
GRIEVES, WILLIAM mmn MACLIN 1843 S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 394
GRIEVES, WILLIAM mmn JEWELS 1844 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 429
GRIEVES, CHARLES mmn MACKLING 1846 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 419
GRIEVES, MARY ANN mmn JEWELS 1846 J Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 475
GREIVES, MARY ANN mmn MACLING 1848 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 396
GREEVES, JAMES mmn MACLAN 1850 J Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 402
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The entry on microfilm at North Shields local studies for 1866 is of good quality. As well as the information previously provided on a post therein on the entry no: 1090 it is recorded that Ellen Grieves is a 'Single Woman' and that her abode is Tynemouth Workhouse'. The baptism was performed by F Murray, Curate.
Perhaps Tyne and Wear Archives may hold Ellen's workhouse record - it may be worth asking on a post if anyone who can visit there can look this up for you.
Best Wishes :)
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Elizabeth Grieves born abt 1835 Blyth Northumberland, No Birth found
Eleanor Grieves born 1838 Oct=Nov-Dec reg Tynemouth volume 25, page 357 no matching results found
George Grieves born abt 1841 Blyth, Northumberland No birth found
William Grieves born 1844 Jan-Feb-Mar reg Tynemouth volume 25 page 429 Mothers maiden name Jewels
Charles Grieves born abt 1846 Jan-Feb-Mar reg Tynemouth volume 25 page 410 no matching results found
Mary Ann Grieves born about 1848 Blyth, Northumberland No birth found
James Grieves born 1850 April-May-June reg Tynemouth vol 25 page 462 no matching results found
These births seem to tie up with some of the names you are searching, although there are two distinct MMN's, plus overlapping births in 1846 :-\
GREIVES, ELEANOR ... (3 dots, not a dash) 1838 D Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 357
GRIEVES, WILLIAM mmn MACLIN 1843 S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 394
GRIEVES, WILLIAM mmn JEWELS 1844 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 429
GRIEVES, CHARLES mmn MACKLING 1846 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 419
GRIEVES, MARY ANN mmn JEWELS 1846 J Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 475
GREIVES, MARY ANN mmn MACLING 1848 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 396
GREEVES, JAMES mmn MACLAN 1850 J Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 402
Thank you Jomot.You`re a star. I came across the name Maclin before but couldn`t remember where so disregarded it but going off the births you have found it seems quite likely that Maclin could be the maiden name
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The entry on microfilm at North Shields local studies for 1866 is of good quality. As well as the information previously provided on a post therein on the entry no: 1090 it is recorded that Ellen Grieves is a 'Single Woman' and that her abode is Tynemouth Workhouse'. The baptism was performed by F Murray, Curate.
Perhaps Tyne and Wear Archives may hold Ellen's workhouse record - it may be worth asking on a post if anyone who can visit there can look this up for you.
Best Wishes :)
Thank you River Tyne Lass. I didn`t think of that. I wonder if she had both Robert and Ellen when she was in the Workhouse
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I have looked for Robert in the baptisms at Christ Church as this seems to have been the Church of the workhouse baptisms. However, I can't see him. I am wondering if he may have been baptised at St Alban, Earsdon. Unfortunately, the North Shields local studies do not have a microfilm for around that time. The Archives may have this however.
Regarding the workhouse records it looks as if the archives hold the admission and discharge registers between 1854 and 1947.
However, I have looked at these in the past and as I recall this is not a continuous record. I would check with archives to see if they hold admission records around the 1866 mark.
I know some earlier records are poor ..some better ..but the later ones around 1900 can be quite informative for family historians.
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Hi,
Did Thomas & Sarah Grieves both die in 1854?
From GRO Index:
Grieves, Sarah; Age 41; Sept Qtr 1854; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 107
From FreeBMD & Familysearch:
Grieves, Thomas; Sept Qtr 1854; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 107
Familysearch shows line 25 for Sarah & line 26 for Thomas.
There is another Thomas Grieves death in 1861 also on FreeBMD & Familysearch:
Grieves, Thomas; March Qtr 1861; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 147
Neither of these Thomas Grieves deaths appear on the GRO Index, so I have been unable to determine ages for the two deaths.
Ellen/Eleanor having lost both parents, might explain her appearance in the workhouse? Did any of Thomas & Sarah's other children end up in the workhouse?
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
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Hi,
Did Thomas & Sarah Grieves both die in 1854?
From GRO Index:
Grieves, Sarah; Age 41; Sept Qtr 1854; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 107
From FreeBMD & Familysearch:
Grieves, Thomas; Sept Qtr 1854; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 107
Familysearch shows line 25 for Sarah & line 26 for Thomas.
There is another Thomas Grieves death in 1861 also on FreeBMD & Familysearch:
Grieves, Thomas; March Qtr 1861; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 147
Neither of these Thomas Grieves deaths appear on the GRO Index, so I have been unable to determine ages for the two deaths.
Ellen/Eleanor having lost both parents, might explain her appearance in the workhouse? Did any of Thomas & Sarah's other children end up in the workhouse?
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
Hi David
I had not found the Deaths for Thomas and Sarah Grieves but after the 1851 census they disappear. It would be around the right age group for Sarah as the census roughly has her date of birth around 1811.
I think Elizabeth on the 1861 census under the name Betsy Grieeves is lodging at Earsdon with Michael and Eleanor Dolan. She marries Edward Rose in April 1862 in Tynemouth.
In 1861 I think Ellen Grieves is a visitor in Felling at the home of Thomas Straughn and family
George Grieves in 1854 aged 13 is an apprentice in the Merchant Navy
The rest of the family I cant trace but they would be really young if Thomas and Sarah died in 1854
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From FreeBMD & Familysearch:
Grieves, Thomas; Sept Qtr 1854; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 107
Familysearch shows line 25 for Sarah & line 26 for Thomas.
There is another Thomas Grieves death in 1861 also on FreeBMD & Familysearch:
Grieves, Thomas; March Qtr 1861; Tynemouth Reg Dist; Volume 10B Page 147
Neither of these Thomas Grieves deaths appear on the GRO Index, so I have been unable to determine ages for the two deaths.
I think these are the two references:
GRIEVER, THOMAS aged 51 GRO Ref: 1854 S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 107
GRIMES, THOMAS aged 0 GRO Ref: 1861 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 147
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This may be the death notice for Thomas:
Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury 26 Aug 1854
At Cowpen Quay, of English Cholera, on the 20th inst. Mr Thomas Grieves, Coal-Trimmer
ADDED: And Sarah:
Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury 02 Sep 1854
At Cowpen Quay, on the 24th ult., aged 46, Sarah, widow of Mr Thomas Grieves, Coal-Trimmer
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Hi,
Is this the family in 1851? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGX4-HPB
I ask as Thomas gives his place of birth as Trenelale, Westmoreland rather than Foxdale as stated in your original post.
Thomas shown as a Trimmer by occupation on the linked 1851 census, which would therefore mean that the newspaper death notice found by Jomot above is a match & is your Thomas.
hope this helps
Kind regards
David
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Hi,
Hmmm, I have looked at the 1861, 71 & 81 censuses for the four youngest children (William, Charles, Mary Ann & James) & found nothing. They just seem to have vanished! No deaths either. I wonder what became of them?
Kind regards
David
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I've found possible sightings of a couple of them:
1861 Tynemouth Union Workhouse - RG9/3843/84/1
Jas Greaves 12 Inmate born Blyth, Northumberland
Ann Greaves 15 born Blyth - possibly Mary Ann?
Merchant Navy Apprenticeship Indenture 15 Aug 1864 for James Grieves aged 15. Bound for 5 years to Geo Jobling of Shields to serve aboard the ship Susannah of Newcastle, No. 3797. Enrolled at North Shields
Possible death for Mary Ann:
GRIEVES, MARY ANN aged 18 GRO Ref: 1866 J Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 111
Buried 10 May 1866 but father named as William :-\
ADDED
Also a Merchant Navy Apprenticeship Indenture 18 Oct 1856 for William Greaves aged 14 Bound for 4 years to John Appleby, Blyth to serve aboard the John Baker of Shields (?) No 18638. Enrolled at Blyth.
There is a second one for William dated 20 Jul 1860 aged 18 indentured for 3 years to P Dale of Blyth to serve aboard the Tynemouth 27168. Enrolled at North Shields.
ALSO ADDED
Indenture 31 Jul 1857 for Chas Greaves aged 11 Bound for 7 years to R Crawford of Blyth to serve aboard the Vesper, 2447. Enrolled at Blyth
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This may be the death notice for Thomas:
Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury 26 Aug 1854
At Cowpen Quay, of English Cholera, on the 20th inst. Mr Thomas Grieves, Coal-Trimmer
ADDED: And Sarah:
Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury 02 Sep 1854
At Cowpen Quay, on the 24th ult., aged 46, Sarah, widow of Mr Thomas Grieves, Coal-Trimmer
Wow what an excellent find Jomot. Bless them, they wern`t very old either and dieng a week apart from each other. It`s sad
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Hi,
Is this the family in 1851? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGX4-HPB
I ask as Thomas gives his place of birth as Trenelale, Westmoreland rather than Foxdale as stated in your original post.
Thomas shown as a Trimmer by occupation on the linked 1851 census, which would therefore mean that the newspaper death notice found by Jomot above is a match & is your Thomas.
hope this helps
Kind regards
David
Hi David, many thanks for that as I had`nt noticed the census on family search. The one I was going off was on ancestry and they have it transcribed as Foxdale, Westmoreland. The actual census is not very clear to make it out.
From the information you and Jomot have found it seems that the 4 boys George, William, Charles and James were all enrolled in the Merchant Navy. Brilliant work
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Hi, John Appleby was my 3xgreat-grandfather. I have been tracing information about the John Baker and have found that in January 1857, the John Baker was wrecked in a storm off the coast of Hartlepool. By 1857, John had retired and his son, Henry Appleby, was the ship's master. I have copied some newspaper articles from the 8th-10th January 1857:
8th: "Great fears are entertained for the safety of the brig John Baker, of Blyth (light vessel), as various articles belonging to her have come ashore near Stockton on-Tees."
9th: "Jan. 9th.- "John Baker," Henry Appleby, and "Honour," Benjamin Arkle, of Blyth, lost with all hands near Hartlepool."
10th: "The Late Disastrous Storm - Further particulars have reached us since our 6th page, in which accounts from correspondents in various parts of the country, as well as our own locality, appear, went to press. From Shields we learn that the Whitby, of South Shields, has come on shore on the Yorkshire coast, without a soul on board, and it is supposed all hands have perished. The vessels on the Herd Sand here are very much broken up by the violence of the sea, and will not be worth much. The old East India-man, Pekin, has gone to fragments; and what has been floating about, those persons who prowl along the coast in seasons such as the present, "waiting on Providence," have helped themselves liberally. There have been none of those disgraceful scenes of wrecking, however, characteristic of former years. The heroism of the Shields pilots in the storm is spoken of with admiration by every person. The losses sustained by the Tyne clubs from the gale will be serious, as a considerable number of Shields colliers are ashore along the coast, and the loss of life is very lamentable. There is no doubt that four vessels have perished with all hands between the Tyne and the Coquet, on Sunday; two of them, the Alma and the Reform, off Cullercoats, The Duke of Northumberland's life-boats have been useful in saving life during the gale, and by a humane provision in the foundation of the Tyne Sailors' Home, several shipwrecked seamen are enjoying the protection of that institution, and are provided with board and lodgings free of cost. A Seaman and boy belonging to the Earl of Clancarty have reached here, the master and the other portion of the crew have been washed overboard in the gale. - Intelligence received at Blyth on Thursday, confirms the suspicions entertained with respect to the safety of Epsilon and John Baker. The wreck of the former vessel has been recognised at Craster; and it seems the latter was lost near the Heugh at Hartlepool. The crews of both vessels were lost. The Pansey, Dungeld, of Blyth, has put into Lowestoft with loss of anchors and chains."
10th: "Blyth Ships Wrecked - A quantity of wreck, porter casks, and two boats came ashore at Cresswell, on Sunday, one of the boats had no name, the other had the name "Vivid, of Sunderland," upon her stern. The Wards, Stannard, of Blyth, and the Jason, Watts, of Lynn, are ashore at Bamborough, crews saved. The schooner Enterprize, of Lynn, was lost, with all hands, off Newbiggin, on Sunday. A Dutch vessel is ashore near Hartley, coal laden, from Leith, crew saved in their own boat. Pieces of wreck brauded "John Baker, of Blyth," have gone ashore at Hartlepool, and it is feared that that vessel and all hands have suffered during the gale. Other vessels are not yet accounted for."
ADDED
Also a Merchant Navy Apprenticeship Indenture 18 Oct 1856 for William Greaves aged 14 Bound for 4 years to John Appleby, Blyth to serve aboard the John Baker of Shields (?) No 18638. Enrolled at Blyth.
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Very interesting report for me, gmadden.
One of my ggg+grandfathers was master of brigs from Blyth. There was the Blyth and the Messenger as far as I know. We have paintings of both.
But sorry, gordiesue, not really relevant to your Greive resarch.