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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: kathy-9 on Wednesday 04 April 18 15:11 BST (UK)
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I have been searching for Catherine Ferns Ryan for some years with no success. I dont know where to go next.
I wondered if it is possible to gain an SS Number?
This has been posted before, but I am trying again.
Catherine Ferns Ryan, born 1907 Uddingston, Lanark, Scotland. Emigrated 1929 via Quebec to the USA. No information after that. The last thing I can think of is an SS Number. Can anyone help, please? Thx. Kathy
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Background info from previous thread.........
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=771784.0
Sandra
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The only places i can think of where you're likely to find a Social Security number is the Social Security death index (where she hasn't seemed to turn up yet), the Social Security application database on a certain subscription site, and death certificates.
Do you have Catherine's father's name?
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Hi Shelley, fathers name
James Ryan born c1870 in Greenock, Scotland
Mother
Mary Bonar born 1872 in Cambuslang, Scotland.
What about marriage indexes?
Thx Kathy
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There isn't a BMD Index in the USA as there is in the UK. What is available varies State to State and County to County.
What is available is shown in the family search collections index.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list
Sandra
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Like Sandra said, you would need to search the index in the city/state where she got married, and not every area's marriage index is online. http://www.germanroots.com/vitalrecords.html has links to a lot of what's online.
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Thx Shelley Sandra and Maggsie for your help. That gives me a few ideas to try :)
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I have the following person who is a bit younger according to the 1940 census, but I wouldn’t dismiss her as a possibility.
In December 1941, the Poughkeepsie Journal has an article on naturalisation. One of the names is a “Catherine Fern Ryan Mcmillan, Glenham, native of Scotland” (Note Glenham is a hamlet in Dutchess County, New York)
There is this person in the 1940 census (b abt 1910, so a bit younger):
United States Census, 1940
Name: Katherine Mcmillan
Event Place: Assembly District 2, Queens, New York City, Queens, New York, United States
Sex: Female
Age: 29
Marital Status: Married
Race (Original): White
Race: White
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Wife
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birthplace: Scotland
Last Place of Residence: Same Place
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Wallace A Mcmillan Head Male 30 California
Katherine Mcmillan Wife Female 29 Scotland
Daniel Mcmillan Son Male 6 New York
(*) Mcmillan Son Male 4 New York
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9MB-MCMW?i=14&cc=2000219
In Jan 1962, (*) McMillan gets married. He is from Fishkill and “son of Wallace A McMillan and the late Catherine Fern McMillan”
Possibility: The death of a 42y old “Catherin F McMillan” can be found in the 1952 NY death index
This is the the other son (Daniel Angus McMillan gets married in 1957 and is mentioned as the son of Wallace A. McMillan)
California Death Index, 1940-1997
Name: Daniel Angus Mcmillan
Event Type: Death
Event Date: 14 Sep 1991
Event Place: San Bernardino, California, United States
Birth Date: 01 Oct 1932
Birthplace: New York
Gender: Male
Mother's Name: Ryan
Note: In 1954 a Wallace A McMillan marries Rita McCormick (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/poughkeepsiejournal/obituary.aspx?n=rita-mcmillan&pid=174718045&fhid=15396 ). He dies in 1968 (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/173369432 ), but this one also seems to be a bit older than the one in the 1940 census.
Sylvia
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Wow, this is a fantastic result for Kathy. Well done Sylvia. Perseverance certainly paid off. ;)
Sandra ;)
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Thank you Sandra ... ;D.
After a number of dead ends with other Catherines, this one suddenly jumped out at me. I know that the age is a few years off, but it seems too much of a coincidence with that name. At least it will give Kathy something to play with.
cheers Sylvia
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Yes, to many coincidences for it not to be - and we all know how ages can vary ;)
Sandra
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It seems that that the 1952 death for Catherine might be correct.
From an old post (2010?) : Catherine Ryan was my father's first wife (he was Wallace Angus McMillan.) I don't know her dates of birth or marriage or locations of either, but she and my father lived in Beacon/Fishkill, NY in various locations during the 1930s and 1940s. Sometime in the late 40s or early 50s they bought a house in Pelham, NY. That is where she died on 7 Aug 1952 (a date I was able to find on an old tax return!)
more: http://www.freegenealogytools.com/2010/01/fgt-challenge.html
photo: https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=allgs&gss=sfs28_ms_r_f-2_s&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=wallace%20angus&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Mcmillan&gsln_x=0&msbdy=1907&gskw=catherine&cp=0&catbucket=p&MSAV=1&uidh=000
(Note: Wallace is also a few years older than on the 1940 census!)
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Kathy was online yesterday and never made comment ???
Great to have a photograph of her as well Sylvia. Hope Kathy can make contact with relatives now. Obviously someone was looking for Catherine.
Sad ending for Catherine though. Son - James Wallace McMillan - (5 October 1935 - 13 November 2007) his wife still living in Rialto. California - perhaps https://www.whitepages.com/ would help.
Looks like lots of relatives for the other son as well.
Sandra
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I was thinking that Catherine's death certificate would be the first step to confirming that she is the correct person.
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The person looking in 2010 said "her father might have been "Daniel" - that info would not be correct.
The birth cert for Catherine Ferns Ryan (22 December 1906) gives the father as James Ryan (coal-miner) and mother Mary Bonar - married 1898 - Newton - Cambuslang. When Catherine was born they lived at 21 Laidlaw Street Bothwell. Lanarkshire.
Mary Bonar - Ryan James - 1898 - 627/128 Cambuslang.
Ryan Catherine Ferns - RYAN - 1907 - 625/1 17 - Bothwell
Sandra
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This may have been the parents of Catherine in 1901 5 Laidlaw St Bothwell.
Bothwell ED 9 Page 24 Line 18
James Ryan 28 born 1873. Greenock, Renfrew. Coal-Miner Hewer.
Mary Ryan 21 born 1880. Rutherglen, Lanark.
Eleanor Ryan 1 born 1900. Cumbernauld, Dumbarton.
John Ryan 5 Months. born 1901. Uddingston, Lanark
Sandra
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Yes I'd assumed that son James had been named after his GF (Ryan)
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And Son Daniel would have been named after GF Mcmillan
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Kathy was online yesterday and never made comment ???
Maybe she's in shock that - after all this time - she's been given a real possibilty .. LOL
Sylvia
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Think I was expecting an "Excited Poster" screaming "Wow" at what you had found for her. :-\
Feeling the pleasure and excitement for her ;D ;D
Sandra
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It's still early days, maybe she's mulling it over.
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Sometimes people don't have time to respond or hopped on to look at another thread. Let's not expect that people comment immediately. I would hope people who help do it out of the joy of helping rather than in expectation of a specific response.
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Hello guys, I have been following your thread for a while now, so excited to at last have some closure on Catherine, but then bubble burst when I thought we had the wrong girl. That is why I didn’t reply. Didn’t realise I was caught up so emotionally with this one. But Sandra and Tree Spirit, you DO have the right girl. The parents are correct and birthplace is correct!! Her family were miners and would follow the pit sinking for work. Mary Bonar Ryan had family both in Uddingston and Bothwell.
Tree Spirit however did you find Catherine, I have been at this for literally YEARS and only got as far as Ellis Island?
Do you reckon there might be more photos, and where would I look? I will certainly follow up the McMillan links now.
I am on the same trail for Mary Ryan, married to John Mulligan, she had two girls Joan and Betty Mulligan, 1940 census and poof!! Thin air. Born Brooklyn. in Orange County Florida. But Betty and Joan? No sign. Can you help me with this?
In any case thank you guys SO MUCH for the time and effort you have put into this for me. Especially for the photograph. If you need any Scottish help, more than happy to help you in return.
You have made me very, very happy xx :) :) ;)
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By the way, one of the few things I DO know about the Ryan’s was DANIEL aged 18, was eating an orange and sadly choked to death on it. A bizarre accident, but there is the link to Daniel. :o
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Great that TreeSpirit found the information and correctly identified Catherine.
The two daughters of John Mulligan and Mary nee Ryan were born 1936 and 1937 so hopefully still living. RootsChat has a no living people policy.
Sandra
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Thx Sandra you all have been absolutely fantastic. Sorry if I appeared slow in answering. I didn’t realise how emotionally attached to this one. X
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It can feel a bit odd when after many years a breakthrough happens ... :-)
I suppose that I managed to find her with a bit of experience, a bit of luck and maybe a fresh pair of eyes (and it was the "Fern(s)" part that was the big lead).
BTW Although it seems to fit fairly nicely and although she seems to be the only candidate, it might still be worth getting Catherine's death certificate to determine 100% that she is the right one.
rgds Sylvia
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PS I still think that son Daniel was named after his grandfather. I believe that this is the marriage of Catherine's parents-in-law (I haven't researched this thoroughly yet, so I could be wrong):
Utah Marriages, 1887-1935
Name: Daniel A. Mcmillan
Spouse's Name: Lizzie Coakley
Event Date: 24 Dec 1906
Event Place: Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah
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Hi Sylvia, still elated with this wonderful find of Catherine, who I am named after.
I found one Wallace McMillan with 9 children ... that’s a big stretch for marriage in 1931 and death in 1942. This Catherine was living for longer. You see who easy it is To go gaily up a blind alley.
How would I get a death certificate for Catherine?
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There is this NY site for certificates (I have never used it, maybe someone else has had experience with it): https://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/genealogy.htm
FYI Catherine can be found on the 1952 death index here: https://archive.org/stream/New_York_State_Death_Index_1952/Reclaim_The_Records_-_New_York_Death_Index_-_1952#page/n959/mode/1up (go to the bottom of the page)
(Note: the place of death is not a place name and there is no certificate number … strange, does this mean there is no NY certificate ??? I have no idea.)
I have sent you a private message re Mary's children.
Sylvia
PS the link to the NY death idx is supposed to take you to page 960, but gremlins are interfering. Just page forward to page 960 yourself.
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Hi Sylvia, it is quickly unravelling! After years of effort you have got me well on the way to success!
I looked up the death record as you suggested indeed no certificate number, how odd ... and the reason for death is 9? Do you know what 9 is ? Code for pneumonia or something? In any case it looks like Catherine had a much better life in the US than she would have had here in Scotland, so sad she did not live longer.
Do you have to pay for these records, or are they free to the general public?
The other website looks really good and has some tutorials on it. Will make use of this!
Thank you so much for helping me, and for Maggs, Sandra etc also who give their time to help people on Rootschat! you have filled in the gaps in Catherine ‘s history.
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Looking at the Death Certificate Index, Catherine has a number in place of a Place of Death, and no Certificate Number. One other on the page is the same. Anybody know what this could mean? Thx, Kathy
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I had another look at the certificate page. It issues NY state certificates, but it mentions that New York New York (copies of) certificates have to ordered via the city of New York i.e. http://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/services/death-certificates.page.
Unfortunately I don't know where Catherine's death was registered, but it is listed in "the index to deaths in New York State in 1880-1956"
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My name is Susan McMillan Renzo, and I am the daughter of Wallace McMillan and Rita McCormick.a
I am in tears right now, seeing that you have done what I could not do: locate Catherine Ryan's past!!
My father was married to Catherine Ryan, They had two sons, Daniel Angus McMillan II (named for my father's father) and James Wallace McMillan.
Daniel married Charlotte Odell, and they had five children, two daughters and three sons. Both Dan and Charlotte are deceased, Charlotte only a few months ago..
James was married, had a son, then divorced. He relocated to CA, where he was with a woman with five children. It isn't clear to me whether they ever married. James died many years ago.
Several years after the death of Catherine (which I understood to be by suicide, related to a painful bone disease) Wallace married Rita McCormick. They had 8 children; 4 daughters and 4 sons. I am the oldest of the 8.
My father died at age 61, in December 1968. At that time, my mother was 43 (she, too, is deceased), I was 13 and the youngest siblings, twin boys, were 4. My mother never remarried, raised us all by herself.
Catherine Ryan did not have a social security number. Back in the 1940s, early 1950s they were not required. I have their tax returns from that time, and while she and the boys are listed, none of them had a number. Perhaps it was a citizenship issue: I don't know what her immigration status was. She may well have been a registered alien. Also, I believe that her death was in Pelham, NY, which is located just outside of New York City. However, it might also have been in Glenham, NY. I know they owned homes at different times in both locations, but I don't know the timing.
I have a picture in my family tree of Wallace and Catherine and an unidentified woman sitting around a table playing cards in my family tree. It is the only one I was ever able to locate.
I am so grateful to all of you who worked together to gain this information. I tried so hard to include it in the book I created in memory of my father in what would have been his centennial year, 2007. I just couldn't pierce the veil of so many years.
I would be happy to fill in any other blanks I am able to.
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Hi Susan, welcome and great to hear from you .. I'd seen your name pop up a number of times during this search. I'm sure that Kathy will be elated to have contact with you. I've continued to work privately with her on Catherine's nieces (i.e. Mary's daughters) as they might still be alive. We've a got a possibility but it sounds as if you might not know about them as you knew so little about Catherine's background?
It is intriguing how just a name in a newspaper could tear down that big brick wall that has kept 2 families apart for so long. It is also interesting how you managed to find this post as it is still very new.
rgds, Sylvia
PS I believe that you need to have posted 3 times before you can send private messages on this forum ..
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Welcome to RootsChat from me to.
Gosh - Another WOW on this thread - Kathy will be absolutely thrilled and excited that you have replied, she has been researching for a number of years and perseverance has certainly paid off when TreeSpirit came across a newspaper announcement not very long ago.
Sandra
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Blimey what a wonderful gift for a rainy Scottish Sunday!! He there Sue there is a message on Ancestry from me from last week!! Arent the guys on this page WONDERFUL,! Never would have done itwithout my new friend Tree Spirit and the others!
And for Sandra and Shelley Maggsie ! A great big
WOW!!!
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MAGGSIE
If you pick up on this I may be able to help you with Alexander Kerr McMaster.
I was going through some posts relating to Catherine Ryan and you popped up, I know you helped me in the beginning with Catherine, cant trace you now though.
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Hi Sue,
It was lovely to read your post about Wallace McMillan married to Catherine Ryan, my great aunt. Sad to hear of her untimely death also. I have pm-ed you but you haven’t picked it up.
I would love to have a picture of Catherine’s sons or grandchildren but I don’t know how to go about tracing them. Can you help?
I think Wallace looked like a lovely person, and I am not surprised Catherine fell for him. Here is a lovely thought for you. Catherine was Scottish and came from near Stirling, where the Wallace Monument is built, high on a hill. William Wallace was a defender of Scotland and a great hero for us.
Catherine lived practically directlyunder the Wallace Monument. It was central in her life. How wonderful she found someone in a foreign country who she could relate to, a little piece of home in a strange place?
I would love to catch up with you Sue! I hope you pick up on this message! Best regards Kathy