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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: mlmcholm on Wednesday 04 April 18 23:05 BST (UK)
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Hi. I'm currently researching David Burns born 1814 Applegarth, Dumfries. According to his birth, father was Francis Burns, mother listed as Jardine. I am unable to find any marriage for Francis and ?Jardine. If the naming pattern is anything to go by, David's 2nd daughter was Mary. I haven't been able to find any death for Francis either. Any help would be appreciated. Many thanks
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Hi mlmcholm,
I've had a good search in ref: to David Burns born 17th Jan 1814. and his Father Francis. I have found a Mary Jardine, as you mention, same town i.e. Applegarth, Sibbaldbie. but rule her out as she was producing her own Daughter, Mary in 1814.
Another Jardine I found was a Janet Jardine, same Town as above, but married to a Francis Cowan.
Sadly, I could not put Francis Burns with any name Jardine ,except at the Birth of David, in a 30 years life-span either way, even Death Records for him do not show up, or Birth details.
I presume you are doublie sure the facts you have are spot on, otherwise I could search in another direction.........................Ron.
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1851 Census in Applegarth we have;
Janet Jardine, 60, Head, Laundress, born Applegarth, dumfriess
James Anderson, 31, Lodger
A Jane JARDINE was christened Applegarth 17 Feb 1789 to Robert JARDINE and Janet DICKSON
May be worth looking at images on Scotlandpeople to see if she is widowed.
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Hi, Your Jane, was baptised JANET after her Mother, not Jane. She was born 17th Feb 1789 as you said, but the Parents were Joseph Jardine, not Robert, and his wife was Janet Dickson. So far...Good! Janet Jardine the daughter, married at age 22 years to John Jardine on the 18th Nov. 1811. Notice the same surnames.
The Janet you mention in 1851 Census, with a 31 year old lodger in tow, Head-laundress, was widowed between 1841 and 1851, from John Jardine who died 1842. The ages are reduced as per 1841 Census's as was the habit of that era. Although I'd expect Janet to be recorded at 45.....But then again!! So, my educated guess is: Janet born 17th Feb 1789 and Janet who was widowed in 1842 from John....Are one of the same................................Ron.
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Hi Stob ban. Thanks for taking the time on this for me. All the info I have is a transcript of David Burns birth on Ancestry. 17 Jan 1814, Applegarth Dumfries, father Francis Burns, mother Jardine. I did find a death record for David on Scotlandspeople for 1879, Kirkmichael Dumfries, but haven't bought the cert.
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Hi, The David Burns you mention on Scotlandspeople, I have searched the Death Details for the above in Kirkmichael, Dumfries. Your correct he died in 1879, and his Father was James Burns and Mother was Margaret Jardine. David was married to Elizabeth Greenash.
If the above David Burns is the one you are after; the Birth matches in ref: to his Death, 64-65 years of age. Can you tell me what part of the family are you more concerned with. Will be in touch tomorrow................Ron.
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Wow, Stob Ban that's great, thank you. Yes he did marry Elizabeth Greenhalgh, March 1843 and was a gunner in the Royal Artillery. The Burns family is the direct link to the McHolm famiy. Mary Ann Burns, Davids second daughter, who was born in Gibraltar in 1848, married William McHolm. David and Elizabeth's first daughter was Margaret born 1844. Will be interesting now to be able to take it further. Thanks again
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Hi, You sound really pleased with the outcome as you seem to be moving in the right direction eventually. A little more info: left: Now that we have confirmed the real David Burns married to Elizabeth Greenhalgh, and all other Death and Birth sources working out to a 'T' the details I have for his TRUE parents are: Father: James Burns, Mother: Margaret Jardine. David died at aged 64 in Kirkmichael, from an accident and survived eight days afterward. He died on January 19th at 4.15am. The Doctor who attended was a Thomas Reid.
All the above info: comes from a detailed copy of his Death on The Statutory Records..........Ron.
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Many thanks once again Stob Ban. I will see if I can find any more on his death. I am unable to find any marriage though for James Burns and Margaret Jardine. It's not easy is it!
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Hi,
Just came across the Death details of David's wife Elizabeth Greenelsh, (proper spelling). She died at 11.50pm on the 4th April 1895 aged 71, from Chronic Bronchitis, which had plagued her for many years. David Middleton, her Grandson was informant to the Death.
I do have more info: on her Parents etc. if you want them.............Ron.
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Will have a look for the Marriage details for James..........
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Hi,
I had a quick scan but it seems it'll take longer; but with little info: it makes all the more difficult. We do know they exist as we have them on the Statutory Register, as man and wife and the parents of David.. Will have a proper search later today and get back to you................Ron.
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You're amazing Stob Ban thanks again. On the marriage for David and Elizabeth 1843 Woolwich, it lists Elizabeth's father as William Greenhalgh corporal Royal Artillery. On closer inspection, father of groom is Francis Burns. Now I'm confused!!!! There is also an Army birth for Elizabeth in Ireland 1825. In the census it gives her place of birth as Ireland. David and Elizabeth's 3rd daughter, Sarah Jane married James Middleton in 1872. It also mentions on 1861 and 1871 census, Davids birthplace Applegarth. Mmmmm!
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Hi mlmcholm,
Now I know how you are confused it's simply that David & Elizabeth were married in Woolwich, which is The Royal Military Acadamy & Barracks, in Greater London. Looking up Statutory Records in Scotland won't get you information for that part of their life. I presume they were a Military family. He probably served in the Military in England; that's a whole new ball-game. Elizabeth's Father is correct as I wrote, but David and Francis Burns are down in London, England, during the period you require, ''seemingly you have them''.......David Burns & Francis Burns, probably his Father after all, were soldiers.................Ron.
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Thanks, Stob Ban but I'm confused as to why the father's name on the death cert is James. It's obviously the right David because of the wife, Elizabeth Greenhalgh and she is a widow on the 1881 census, living in Kirkmichael
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Hi,
Yea it is a bit mind-boggling, but ref: David and his wife they obviously came back from England to Scotland to live as she was Recorded in the 1881, Scottish Census proved this.. David too, all living in Kirkmichael. That makes sense.
Now as far as Francis goes, I have no trace of him in Scotland, anywhere, Birth, Marriage or Death. Even after a really good search, although he could have been a ''visiting soldier'' from another Country!! The 'entry' he being the Grooms Father; could have acted as a ''Stand In'' for David or just be a simple recorded mistake....Ron
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Stob Ban, in your opinion then, have I to assume James or Francis as the 'real' father? Did you manage to find a marriage for James and Margaret? The name Margaret makes sense as the name is carried through. Shame David didn't have any sons! That may have answered the question. Many thanks again
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Hi mlmcholm,
I'm looking for James Burn's married to Margaret in Dumfries plus surrounding area ,but alas no luck. I've been in touch with a friend who resides in Castle Douglas, Dumfries, and is well versed in genealogy and history in the Dumfries area. I'll let you know what he finds out.....will be in touch......R
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Hi mlmcholm,
This is what I have.....The Burns you are searching are mostly Irish in origin, fact i.e. born there, such as David's wife, Elizabeth, as I found out on the Statutory Register, as you had already discovered. In the 1871 Cencus David was aged 57, Elizabeth aged 47 and David a weaver to trade. It states on the Census Register that they had an Adopted son named William Haholm, aged two years, a name your 'familiar' with....
All the info: I have on James Burns and Margaret Jardine, is they propose to be David's Dad on Scottish Register..as far as Francis goes, all I have is his name linked with a ? Jardine at the birth of David. I have taken a good run at searching; but the Irish side with the Woolwich interaction etc. with info: in some quarters, missing. I've done genealogy for 18 years and at times it's frustrating. Have you tried the names on the Irish Statutory Register. Try having search on the Irish side, it may pay off on the Burns.
I'm sorry to say, and being truly honest, which one is the Daddy!! Francis or James, I'd rather leave it to you. My friend in Dumfries went for James with the evidence I had given him. I'll give it a breather and take it up later if your still, pulling your hair out.........Ron.
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Thanks so much Stob Ban for all your time you have given on this. It is appreciated. I must admit, we have the death info, which for the most part fits in. So for the moment I'll run with that. I do appreciate that the info given at the death is only as good as the informant remembers.
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Hi,
Absolutely true.......Ron.