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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: londonscorpion on Monday 09 April 18 10:54 BST (UK)
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My mother was a prolific diary keeper, many pages of which contain shorthand. I do not know what kind of shorthand she used so I am attaching a scan of a 1935 dairy page. This page is a bit exceptional in that it's pretty much all shorthand - other pages have a few bits interspersed with normal writing.
Can anybody suggest the best way to get a transcription done.
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Everyone has their own style of writing shorthand. Whilst some of the symbols look like Gregg to me, there seems to be a lot of 'thick and thin' which would suggest Pitman. Gregg was based on 'short and long'.
I use a few Gregg words when writing things down quickly, but I have lost most of it now.
Sorry can't be of more help.
SM ...
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I'm almost certain it's Pitmans shorthand. I can read some of it, albeit 50 years since I learnt. Part of it says -
Saturday, 13th - Morris came round and bought birthday present. I think it was very sweet of him.
Tony's wife
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Sunday, 7th
Went to Communion in the morning with .......... Went round to ?'s house. She was out. Cards(?) in the afternoon. Took dog for a walk and in the evening ......Mrs Sinclair(?). She said I must go(?)................... I did not see Stanley(?).
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Thanks very much for that. My mother was just 20 when that was written.
Any idea where I could get a number of pages ( and a lot of snippets) transcribed?
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I'm certain Rootschatters will be able to help as and when they come online. It is definitely Pitmans shorthand and well written at that, so I don't think it will be too difficult. I'm happy to 'have a go' and can probably translate more of the diary already posted as I suspect will others.
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Hello, there are a handful of us on Rootschat who enjoy transcribing shorthand and I agree this is Pitman. If the last squiggle on Sunday 7th is Stanley (and it could well be) then he's mentioned most days :) I can't read it all but here's the gist of Tuesday and the first part of Wednesday, maybe some of the others can fill in the blanks
9 Tues : Met up in morning with Stanley also Jill (?)~ she ~ ~ by talking constantly the whole time. Went for a walk with Betty ~ (?)
10 Wed: Maurice came round in evening with ~ for present.
Heather
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10th
Morris came round with (catalogue) for ...... I was not going to see him but Mum told me not to be silly. ? supposed to be coming round but she did not come.
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13th Saturday
Longhand: Jackie invited Morris and I down for picnic. Hairdressers at 9.30. Morris unfortunately can't come.
Shorthand: Morris came round (? with) my birthday present. I think it was very sweet of him. Went to tea at ....... ...... (?Farm) Finchley. Saw Peter talking to Morris.
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12 Friday
Went up with Stanley. Peter also got on my bus. He .... ......
So all met again at Charing Cross. His smile is (?marvellous).
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7th Sunday (with acknowledgement to Tony's wife who did the first sweep!)
Went to communion in morning Stanley (was?) there. Went to Denise's (?) house. She was out. Cards in the afternoon. Took dog for a walk in the evening saw Mrs Sinclair she said I must go swimming with Betty(?) one Sunday morning if not seeing Stanley.
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11 Thursday
Went up to ? in the evening did not stop long always bored there took dog for a walk but did not see Stanley.
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8th Monday
(I can't read most of it - perhaps someone else might like to have a look.)
Went up in the train with Billy Watson. Morris supposed to go for papers(?) but he did not .........................................
Rang Bertie(?) house to see if Florrie was there/free.
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I believe Monday 8th might be starting with:
'Went up in train with Billy Watson. Morris supposed to go for puppies...'
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from middle of line three on 8th:
..... I went out because I did not ..... want to see him as it would hurt him/me(?)
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8th
.....Went out because I did not want to see him as it would hurt him. Went up in bus with Stanley.Went round to ..... and ......... both out.
(posted at same time as Greensleeves)
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This is amazing. Would it help if I posted a few more pages (in sequence) to help with context and to give you more examples of the writing.
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Would be helpful. Do you know who Morris and Stanley are, or just friends?
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I would love to work on a few more pages - this is much more interesting than crossword puzzles! ;D
In fact it does get easier as we pick up on her style, shortforms etc. So in theory, the more we do the better we get.
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Under the words 'can't come' on 13 July are two shorthand words for 'birthday present'.
The last 3 shorthand words on 13 July possibly says '..Saw (Peter?).talking to (Morris).'. Not certain as 2 little lines absent which could indicate she is using names and I am not sure if there is a slight curve indicating the 'm' form. However, she may have just decided to omit these.
On the 10th looks like starting with 'Morris came round in evening with catalogues for present.'
Also, on 10th, the second sentence on third line appears to finish with the words... 'not to be silly'.
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Thanks to everyone. I am attaching a few more pages from the same month.
The names in the diary are friends and my mother's birthday was 16th July so "birthday present" gels. She was living with her Mum Dad and sister in Hendon, North London.
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23rd Sunday
(Longhand) Got up late. Went to church. Peter was there. Also Ken
(shorthand) found(?) at tea afterwards. Stanley was outside he came to meet me. I really wanted to go up with Peter. Went for a drive with Stanley and Ken introduced them to Daddy(?).
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24th Monday
Missed double decker bus so did not see Stanley. But met Morris at Golders Green. He came up with me. I like him more than ever. Went home with Ian/Jan(?) from Temple. Been at Be..... (?) a year.
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25th
Hair dresser at 6.30. Stanley was on bus. He had a new suit. Supposed to meet Morris. He was not there. Rang him up. He came round in evening. Went out with him. I have never met anyone quite like him.
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25th Tuesday
Hairdresser at 6.30.
Stanley was at office(?) on bus. He had on a new suit. Supposed to meet Morris he was not there. (longhand). Rang him up. He came round in evening. Went out with him. I have never met anyone quite like him.
Snap redtony - I agree with your 'bus' rather than my 'office'.
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27th
Morris came round in morning and brought me up to the city. Dropped Daddy at ? which was a very pleasant surprise. He hopes to get his new car. Daddy's birthday.
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28th
Saw Peter in morning. He spoke to me. Stanley was on bus. I did not see him at first. Apologised when I got off bus. Uncle Arthur's birthday. He was on bus in evening. Went round to Wigs(?).
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29th
Did some shopping in morning. Met ....... Went for a walk with him ............... He quite a nice fellow. RAF display. Did not go out anymore. Saw Peter.
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29th
Did some shopping in the morning. Met ....... Went for a walk with him ............... He quite a nice fellow. RAF display. Did not go out anymore. Saw Peter.
Did some shopping in morning. Met Ellis/Lewis (?) went for a walk with him by the river. He is quite a nice fellow. etc etc
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30th
Went to St Marys in morning, Magdalen at night. Stanley was not there. Morris passed(?) me.
...........came round and got me up. We both went for a spin and met the boys(?)..went into the B.B. Morris took us out in the Standard Avon, then we went home. Gave Morris his diary(?).
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1st Monday
Morris came round in the morning and took me to work left me about 9.15. We had a long talk with him (?). In my opinion he really is marvellous. Saw Stanley, went for a walk with him gave him his diary.
[I wonder if Stanley knows he has a rival! ;D]
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Great work Greensleeves. I am enjoying reading -- as my attempts are.... :P ::) ???
But its good to test the old brain cells.
xin
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Wonderful isn't it Xin! This young lady seems much in demand, lucky girl. :)
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2nd July
Bubbles(?!) rang Morris up. He asked to be remembered to me. Took dog for a walk in evening. Did not see Stanley until he got in.
(Is Stanley her brother?)
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3rd July
Wrote a letter to Morris. Lunch with Jerry. Morris came round about my letter. Talked to him for quite a long while then went for a little(?) spin with Bubbles(?) driving. Saw Vera Willis on way home from office.
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4th
Saw Stanley on bus. He was quite nice. Went to choir. Took dog for a walk. When I came back met Stanley. He seemed rather ..............................
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6th
Went up to town and got watch in morning. Washed dog in afternoon. Morris came round, unfortunately(?) not for me. Had I gone to the door things may have been different. I was rather disappointed. Went and did some shopping with Mummy. Saw Phil(?) in the ......... Did not see Stanley.
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14th July
Saw Peter going to church(?). Went to meet him but I missed him. Very hot. Nothing exciting happened.
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This is all quite brilliant.
Bubbles was the nickname given to my mother's sister, Cynthia.
I think the dog's name was Rags, if that ever crops up.
On and Up!!
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15th Monday
Saw Peter in morning and Stanley on bus. Went up with tall girl (?). Went down to (Avon?) with Mummy and Bubbles. While there saw Morris he came and sat with us and told me the names of cars. He then ran us home. He is nice and I like him more than I should do. Madge rang me up.
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Oh dear, not everything in the garden is rosy!
17th Monday:
Going out with Betty L? Morris came round, Bubbles went out with him said Mummy. I could not understand her I cried In fact there was a bit of a row. Saw Morris when he brought Bubbles back. Cost him a chocolate(?)
Went up in train with tall girl and Stanley, she annoys me.
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19th Friday
Did not see Stanley but Morris passed me on the way to G.G. in bus, he put on his siren, he waited for me at G.G. Stuck it on again, said how do and had a little chat. Could not bring me up because he was not going. Going home with Jerry. Morris came round to see if the doctor rang me up from the office(?).
[Can anyone help with the gaps? I am assuming G.G. is Golders Green]
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You're doing great work Greensleeves!
"Morris came round to see if the ? rang me up from the office(?)."
Could the first ? be the short form for Doctor? ???
Heather
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Oh thanks Heather, you're right, that could be the doctor shortform. Well spotted.
I've just been working on the entry for the 21st and there are some gaps in that if you fancy having a go!
21 Sunday
Go away.
Morris is coming before 10 to take us to Paddington. Morris was late. Had to go and fetch him. We were waiting outside his house. Arrived Paddington in about 20 minutes. He kissed me goodbye. I was thrilled. W.S.M (presumably Weston Super Mare) about 2.5....................................
........... Wrote card.
and then I can't read the last bit.
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22nd Monday
Holidays start
Sat on beach in the morning. Met with Brian (?) and Bob. Sat with them all the afternoon and part of the evening. Went to see a polo match afterwards. Had my first dip.
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Oh thanks Heather, you're right, that could be the doctor shortform. Well spotted.
I've just been working on the entry for the 21st and there are some gaps in that if you fancy having a go!
21 Sunday
Go away.
Morris is coming before 10 to take us to Paddington. Morris was late. Had to go and fetch him. We were waiting (?) outside his house. Arrived Paddington in about 20 minutes. He kissed me goodbye. I was thrilled. W.S.M (presumably Weston Super Mare) about 2.5........
and then I can't read the last bit. Last two outlines could be 'wrote card' ??
Heather
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Yes G G would be Golders Green. Jerry is correct - she was my mother's cousin who was 5 years older. Bubbles was younger than my mother by 2 years.
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Yes WSM is Weston Super Mare; Jerry lived there as did my mothers's grandfather
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Thanks for clarification, LS. Fascinating stuff, this. It's a bit like a time machine, peeping back into 1935.
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23 Tuesday
Sat on the sands with Bob and Brian* after a swim with them in the afternoon, met them in the evening and we went on the pier but did not stay very long because there was nothing doing so went for a walk around to the beach. They sat down and Bob wanted to kiss me. **.... I like him very much.
*Not sure if these names are correct. Anyone got any other ideas?
** Looks like 'smack'!
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24th Wednesday
Was going up to Worlebury but too hot so sat on beach in afternoon and went up to sanatorium end of the beach and at least have a long swim. Came back to tea. Supposed to meet Bob around in evening but met ............. and went to L? Cafe for a ......
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This is wonderful,
But I feel I have to read it by peeping through my fingers. 8) 8) 8) ::). eek.. I feel so guilty reading it :o ::)---
xin
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I think if it got too personal, I would suggest we called a halt. As it is, I think we're dealing with rather nice youthful flirtations. :)
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Have to just comment so that I can follow this. What a marvellous insight to those times.
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The next entries aren't very easy to read as the writing is rather faded:
25th Thursday
Remained on the sands all day with Poppy and Diane. Went for a swim in the afternoon. Going to the pics with Grandpa evening. Read some P....... ............. Sylvia (?)
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Friday 26th
Sat on beach all day with Poppy and Diane. Walked up to Knightstone. Met Bob and Brian. Climbed the rocks and had a marvellous time. Met Ron and Jimmy. Afterward they asked to see us.
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Sat 27th
Went on prom in the morning. In the afternoon met Ron and Jimmy and went for a drive to Wells, Cheddar and Wookey. Supposed to meet Bob and Brian but did not. Saw 'Gentlemen are Born' with Jean Muir, Ann Dvorak, Margaret Lindsay and Franchot Tone.
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You guys are unbelievable and thank you so much. I am glad that you are enjoying the read as much as I am.
Shall I send you some more so we can continue the journey?
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its a great insight and it could be ....... a very good novel...
xin
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I'd certainly be happy to do some more LS - am finding them fascinating. Was in the shop today so had quite a bit of time on my hands, in between customers, hence today's output. ;D
Looking at RT's posts I think a couple of my 'Bob and Brian' should be 'Poppy and Diane' - coincidence that she spent time with two sets of people with such similar shorthand outlines ;D
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OK. Here we go with August 1935.
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OOh that reminds me of one of the first lessons...
PB TD :)
xin
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How about these then xin?
That pen is not much good
Pa may we all go too
I enjoy Gow's music
Do these ring a bell? ;D
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yes .... ha ha...
I remember the first time, I got asked ... to
'bring your pencils in please' :) :)
I was so glad when dictaphones came in..
pb td ch d mn r s etc.. oh my
I just have so much on at the minute with this DNA lark...
My little brain is too tired to refresh.. and
trying to up my bloomin spanish for my hols.
xin
mind explosion
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Gosh, you're busy Xin! Am impressed by the Spanish; I keep thinking I must keep up my French but it is very hard when I never use it. DNA - my daughter bought me a kit for Christmas. Why am I so reluctant to send it off? I know not.
I rather liked dictaphones, when people got used to how to dictate. Can you remember the nightmare of people - men in those days - dictating a sentence and then saying "Oh no, forget that" and you would have to rip the paper out of the typewriter and start again...... At least with shorthand you could cross out!
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Si recordo mucho (very bad basic response :) )
will let you get back at it..
Xin (forgive my intrusions..)
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Not intrusions at all Xin, thanks for your interest. Hope you'll continue following the story. I'll not be transcribing for a day at least, as I have Things To Do, so hopefully others would like to start running with this. :)
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Right, off we go again. I would appreciate if other shorthand writers would have a stab at filling in the gaps, and/or correcting anything I've got wrong in any of my transcriptions, thanks:
28th Sunday
Went for a walk with Bob and Brian (or is it Poppy and Brian?). Very ....... day. Went on the rocks with them Came back .......... by one on the beach and then for a walk with Grandpa in evening. Went for a dip.
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Monday 29th
Went on ........ to see Aunty Dolly and Uncle Horace. In evening went to Melrose. Had some fun ..... it was lovely.
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30th Tuesday
Denise coming to Wookey with Grandpa. Had marvellous time. Met Aunty Dolly on way back.
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31st Wednesday
(This is a bit confusing as there is longhand in there and it doesn't really make sense)
Met Denise at Ellenborough Park. Went to see Bubbles Crescent Park at Grove Park
Met Ginny? and Jerry at 10.30. Went for a walk on the beach.
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1st Thursday
Went on beach in the morning also have a dip. Went to Marine Lake in afternoon with Jack. Saw Dennis. Went and saw Gordon Harker and Jane Carr in The Lad, and Claude Rains in The Man Who Reclaimed his Head. We met Jack(?) afterwards.
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28th Sunday
Went for a walk with Bob and Brian (or is it Poppy and Brian?). Very ....... day. Went on the rocks with them Came back .......... by one on the beach and then for a walk with Grandpa in evening. Went for a dip.
28th Sunday
Went for a walk with Bobby and Brian (?). Very hot day. Went on rocks with them. Came back. Said goodbye. Went on beach and for a walk with Grandpa in evening. Went for a dip.
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Friday, 2nd
10.30 hairdressers. Lunch(?). Met Ronny(?) and Francis Higgs in afternoon. Went for a walk with them on pier. Then tea at ..................Gardens. Was going to Bristol by car. Ginni(?) would not let us. Uncle met us at Temple Meads at 5.5. Went for a walk. Nevil fine ............to me.
(struggled with this a bit!)
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Just had a look, RT - I think it's Winter Gardens - I checked and there is such a place in Weston Super Mare. No idea about that other gap.
Regards
GS
*Moment of enlightenment!* Neville a fine young man now. :)
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Two pairs of eyes - I can see it now!
Let's try with the 3rd -
Going to Auntie Doreens. Went for a walk in morning with Uncle Nevil and Michael. Went to Bristol with Auntie for the afternoon and watched Nevil play cricket for a little while. Auntie Rosie and Minnie came down. Went to Blaisehill(?) in the morning.
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4th
Went to Durdham Down with Uncle Nevil and Michael. Saw Bristol Suspension Bridge. Stayed in in afternoon. Went and saw Auntie Freda in evening. Had quite a nice time.
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5th
Holidays end. Got 2.35 coach from Bristol. Had very pleasant journey up. Met Daddy and Mummy at 8.30.
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6th
Saw Stanley on bus. He wanted to know if I had a nice holiday. Received a card from Morris. He went to Weston to see me.
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7th
Took dog for a walk in evening. Went round to Morris. Went and saw him. Was at Bubbles. Went for a spin. Took dog for a walk through some fields. Morris seemed far more attentive to me than Bubbles.
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8th
Morris and Phil(?) came round for Bubbles' driving licence at about 10. We were just going to bed. I went out. Morris was very cross. Phil did not take much notice. Morris said it was OK for Sunday.
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9th
Morris came round in evening. We were nearly in bed so was not able to see me, so he said he would come round tomorrow.
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10th Saturday
Percy came in evening (I think she meant afternoon as he came to tea). Had tea with us came up to library with me. In evening Morris came round whilst I was out. Left message that I was to go round and see him. Percy took me round so Morris made arrangements for Sunday. Hairdresser at 10.15 am.
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GS -I read it as 'afternoon'.
11th
Jackie invited Morris and I down to Maidenhead for day. Morris came round at 10 o'clock. Picked Phil up. Took him to the garage. ............... the dog(?). Messed about with a Panther motor bike. Arrived down at Maidenhead about 1. Collected Reg and Jackie. Went to Burnham Marshes, Chalfont St Giles, .............. ending up at Berkhamsted at ............... Had my first driving lesson.
Will have another go tomorrow.
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The outline is definitely 'evening', (or at least, how I would write evening): no final 'n' hook; but it does seem logical that it should be read as afternoon. :)
I've been looking at the 11th too. A bit tricky, that one. Congrats on getting the Panther motor bike - I've been looking at that for ages, not able to figure it out.
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12th Monday
Supposed to ring Morris up but snaps were not ready apparently, he .......... in any case took me up to library then went off with Bubbles for driving lesson. Came home. I went to his house, showed him some snaps, he brought us back home. I took dog out, caught Morris up, went back a little way with him. He was very sweet.
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Not easy to read as writing very faded. Any alternative suggestions, as always, very welcome.
13th Tuesday
Morris came round for Bubbles about 6.40. The came back about 11.5. ........ rang Morris up
and left a message for him to ring me but he said it was too late.
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14th Wednesday
Saw Stanley in ....... Went for a walk with him in the evening. Showed him my snaps taken while on holiday. Went to pictures and got in after ....... (midnight?)
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Oh dear, what is Morris playing at?
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I know, Jan - he seems to be playing the sisters off one against the other, the cad! ;D
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15th Thursday
Went around to Denise's place. Had a chat. Had a very funny experience. Met a Yank who ran up to ........... found a stray dog tried to find its home after which some people took it to the police station.
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16th Friday
Nothing very thrilling happening.
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17th Saturday
Nothing terribly exciting happening. Bubbles and I went for a ........ in the evening*. Had Morris's car so did a bit of Sherlock Holmesing**. It was quite interesting.
Note 1: What did they do? How frustrating, I can't make head nor tail of those outlines. Someone please help me out here, the suspense is killing me ;D
Note 2: * She seems to use the same outline for both afternoon and evening so either could be right here.
** Thanks to RT for solving this bit :-)
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Could they have gone for a drive or a spin? No mention of Morris, just his car!
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Morning.
Does it say - Saw Morris' car so did a bit of 'Sherlock Holmesing' ? !!!
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Oh, absolutely brilliant RT - thanks.
Am just about to post 18th and 19th.
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18th Sunday
Percy came for the day, Morris came in the morning, took Bubbles for a drive, said I had to go. (?) He came round again in the afternoon. Came in, we had some fun (?) Said he would pick me up in the morning. Told him not to.
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Not finished this day's transcription yet but as thought I'd post:
19th Monday
Morris did not come so left and walked to Ashley Lane. Stanley was on the bus. Morris caught it up so got off bus and went up to Morris.
(to be continued - is Morris nice, or is he just stringing our heroine along? Next episode soon! ;D)
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Gosh, I hope we find out what happens with Morris and that she didn't stop writing the diary before then!
Reading these entries makes me think just how immature 20 year olds were back in the 1930s compared to someone of the same age now.
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19th Monday (continued)
I told him a few of my troubles and he was very interested. He is an absolute dear to tell anything to. Rang him up about the snaps. He came round at one (?) o'clock. Had lunch with him, he came up to the office. Went back with him to the car. He came round last night and I went for a drive with him.
20th Tuesday
Nothing exciting happened.
21st Wednesday
Saw Peter and Stanley on the bus. Nothing exciting happened.
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22nd
Saw Stanley in evening. Otherwise nothing exciting happened.
23rd
Morris came round in evening. We were out. Mummy told him where we had gone. He caught us up. Took dog back. Mummy came for a drive then went off. I came back and Mum made something to eat. Arrived home about 11.15. .........did not seem ................. it might have been my imagination.
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24th
Went to Golders Green in the afternoon with Mummy and Bubbles. Had some fun.
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25th
Went up to church(?) in morning. No-one there. Saw Morris, ....... and Phil in afternoon in Standard Avon with the musical hooter(?). They did not stop. Went out in evening and did some 'Sherlocking' work. It was good fun. Did it in ..........Close.
Translation needs checking!
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27th
Broke my glasses. Came home with Aunt R.
28th
Morris came round. Took car to Edgware. He looked terribly worried. I felt so sorry for him. He had rowed with his mother.
29th
Had my eyes tested. Told me I would regret not taking care of my eyes. Went up to ................
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30th
Meet Madge at Charing Cross 6.30 for Vintage Wine - did not go. My eyes were bad and I must not use them more than necessary. Went to ......... and had a ..........instead. Saw Morris' car outside .......... Bridge.
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31st
Nevil probably coming to stay week - Went to Surbiton(?) and did some shopping. Met Vera Wills and Mrs. Rothbury.
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You're going great guns there RT! I'll have a look at the gaps and see if I can make anything out. It's funny that however well I know shorthand, sometimes I look at outlines and they might just as well be Chinese! ;D
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23rd
Morris came round in evening. We were out. Mummy told him where we had gone. He caught us up. Took dog back. Mummy came for a drive then went off. I came back and Mum made something to eat. Arrived home about 11.15. .........did not seem ................. it might have been my imagination.
Could it be something along these lines? ' ..... did not seem quite his usual self as well (?), it might have been my imagination.'
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Looking again at the 23rd -
could it read? - arrived home about 11.15. Things did not seem quite as usual but still it might have been my imagination.
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Well done RT - I think you've got it there :)
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Just reading through to see if I can fill in any gaps. Unfortunately not, but I loved the bit about the Standard Avon with musical hooter. Here's a Standard Avon from 1934.
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Nice photo.
I wonder how the story ends!
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Has the diary finished? I'd love to know if she eventually ended up with any of the men mentioned.
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I'm happy to transcribe more, if there is any more. Have thoroughly enjoyed this - rather like reading a good book!
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Me too - and it's reviving memories of wondering how on earth I would be able to take dictation at speed!
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I would still be able to take dictation at speed but whether or not I would be able to read it back is another matter..... ;D
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Hi all,
Just got back from a short trip and delighted to see the results of your endeavours. There is more and and I will gladly put it up. I will see if I can do that later today.
Thank you GS for the beautiful picture.
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Here is 1st September to 5th October. I hope it is clear enough to read. Good luck.
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Thanks for the next episode LS!
1st September - Sunday
Percy and Bert came in afternoon went for a ride with Percy As he was going Morris (?) came round in the Standard van. I went for a short spin (?) with him and felt very sorry for him. He is talking of leaving ...... (or alternatively, he is talking of loving .... Other eyes appreciated for those last couple of outlines please.)
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Tony's wife and I have agreed to work on alternate days, but some of the writing is very faint. I have darkened the images for 4th and 6th - are these any better, Tony's wife?
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Thanks GS.
2nd
Wrote to Jackie(?).
4th
Went up to Wiggs(?) to say goodbye and hoped she had a nice time.
6th
Rang Morris up. Asked him to come to ............ to tea. He said he was busy. (Still struggling with rest of it)............................. altogether(?).
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3rd - Tuesday
Nothing happened
7th - Saturday
Miller Tennis Finals at Godstone. Met Madge at Charing Cross at 12.45. Had a marvellous time and a ripping tea. First day of staying at Jack/Jacky's place for the week.
Took some good snaps.
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8th
Went up to ...................... at ................... Cooked Yorkshire pudding, beef, marrow, roast(?) potatoes for dinner. Had a late tea.
10th
Went round in evening to see Mrs ??, friend of Jacks. She is very nice. Had ..... about 10.30.
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12th
Received letter from Mum. Rang Morris up. He seemed very pleased. Had quite a long(?) chat with him. Went home and made (met) ..................... Jack(?) cleared up. Went to bed about 10.15.
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9th Monday
Came to the office from Jack/Jacky's place. Rang Bubbles up at 5.20. She had gone but ..... to Mummy.
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I'm afraid I can't read much of the entry for 11th:
11th Wednesday
Met Madge at W.....? underground? station at 6.30 Went for a walk round M.....? Gardens and temple (?). Got home about 7.30.
[And the rest I am afraid is a total mystery to me!]
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here's my thoughts on the 11th - (a lot of guessing) -
Met Madge at Westminster underground station at 6.30. Went for a walk round M............. Gardens and Temple. Got home about 9.00. Cooked something ....... Did some drawing(?). Bed early. Jack came home at 11.30. Thought she was going to be caught out. I did not hear her.
(She's getting more slapdash with her outlines!!)
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Thanks for the help RT! Looking at it, I think she did some washing (there looks to be a 'w' there), and Jack thought she was going to be locked out.
[I must say I am relieved to find that Jack is a girl! ;D]
Maybe someone in the London area can help us with the name of the gardens and temple. The outline is M-N (or NG)-K-M. Shorthand is written phonetically so those are the sounds, not the spelling. The place could end in 'ham' but not necessarily...
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Maybe someone in the London area can help us with the name of the gardens and temple. The outline is M-N (or NG)-K-M. Shorthand is written phonetically so those are the sounds, not the spelling. The place could end in 'ham' but not necessarily...
Could it be Middle Temple Gardens and the Temple area of London - The Inns of Court area rather than temple as in church? https://www.gardenvisit.com/gardens/inner_middle_temple_gardens
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I had wondered that Jan, but the outline is nothing like that, unfortunately. And in the diary entry it says M............ Garden and temple. But thanks for the suggestion. I've been googling London - garden - temple and no luck yet!
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I can't think of any gardens starting with M.
Kensington Gardens contains Queen Caroline's temple which is a sort of summer house. Can any of that fit?
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Could it be Embankment Gardens?
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Brilliant RT!!! I am wildly impressed. Give that woman a gold star, a box of chocolates, a glass of wine, a pint..... (you choose) ;D
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Could it be Embankment Gardens?
Well done. What temple is it?
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Wine and chocs please :)
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Wine and chocs please :)
Perfect choice. Jan (Groom) would agree, I suspect :)
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Wine and chocs please :)
Perfect choice. Jan (Groom) would agree, I suspect :)
Yes, very good choice! ;)
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I was thinking Jan, that you are probably right, because they might have gone to the Embankment Gardens and also to the Temple area of London. The two are within walking distance, and the statement ' Went for a walk round Embankment Gardens and Temple' reads okay. She doesn't say 'the temple' so it would seem reasonable that they walked round the area. What a relief to have that sorted out - thanks for your help! :)
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14th Sat
Did some shopping in morning. Went for a walk in evening with Bubbles. Met ? ? then ........................ Forgot .................... ?? brought us home in car.
(some blanks are possibly people's names - help needed)
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16th Mon
Got my new season ticket from Golders Green
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18th Wed
Came up on train with Morris. He spotted me on the platform. He has gone back to his mothers.
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14th - could the person they met be Ivy? Last line: Ivy brought us home in car.
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I thought that looked like an 'n' rather than a 'v' and was thinking 'Owen'.
20th Fri
Rotten cold. Went out in evening. Saw Peter. Had chat with him.
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I thought it looked more like an 'n' than a 'v' but it had an 'eye' vowel and an 'ee' vowel, and I couldn't think of any names that fitted with an 'n', and I know she does get the angles a bit off occasionally.
Later: How about Annie?
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Going to have to run to catch up with you now RT :)
13th Fri
Going home. Jack going down to Shoreham. Very pleased to see my home. Took dog for a walk in evening. John and Willie in a foul temper all day.
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Giving up for now. Will look in again tomorrow.
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Same here! Thanks for your company :)
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15th Sunday
Ann(?) came and paid a surprise visit, she was on her way home from her holiday Told me all the things that she did. Invited Madge (?) and I up ........ one Sunday.
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19th Thursday (longhand)
Jackie and I going to Cordwainers Technical College to take a report.
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21st Saturday
Did some shopping in M........ Mr Rushbrook(?) saw me when I arrived. He asked us to go up to see a house at Sunningfields. He came for us in car at 2.30. Had a marvellous time, got apples from the trees, they came back to tea with us....
[Can only read a few words of the rest. Any ideas, RTW?]
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21st Sat
(last few words) -
No-one wants very much. I like him now much better. Rotten cold.
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22nd Sun
Made two cakes in morning. Percy came in morning. Was going out so would not have any lunch. Went to church in evening. Peter and Stanley there. Walked dog with Stanley in ........(?).
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24th Tues
Stayed at home. Raining hard all day. Went to see 'Roberta' with Irene Dunne, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers in afternoon. Also 'It happened in New York'.
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26th Thurs
Went up with Stanley. He seemed rather ................
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28th Sat
Hairdresser at 10. Went for a walk in afternoon. Did some shopping. Did nothing thrilling.
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30th Mon
Went to office. Told Jack what happened on Friday. Took dog for a walk. Met Audrey. Went together. She is quite a nice girl. I did not dislike her.
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2nd Oct - Wed
Rang Madge up. Arranged what time to meet. Also rang Morris up. He was out. Left a message for him to ring me but he did not.
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4th Oct - Fri
Went up with Stanley. He is very funny. Bought a new pair of stockings. Mummy and Bubbles went to see Miss Patrick(?).
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30th Mon
Went to office(?). Told Jack what happened on Friday. Took dog for a walk. Met Audrey(?). Went together. She is quite a nice girl. I did not dislike her.
What happened Friday I wonder? Have to wait for GS to transcribe that bit. :D :D It looks as if Morris is gradually disappearing off the scene doesn't it?
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23rd Monday
Went to doctor did not go to the office. Went for a walk with Bubbles and the dog in the afternoon and also took him out in the evening. Morris rang to say ...... car in garage. Morris was interested to meet ........
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25th Wednesday
Audrey coming for me at 7.45. Went ...... had a marvellous time. Box of chocs.
Stanley brought me back. He came with ...? Also saw him in the morning and came up with him. I think he likes A.
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25th Wednesday
Audrey coming for me at 7.45. Went ...... had a marvellous time. Box of chocs.
Stanley brought me back. He came with ...? Also saw him in the morning and came up with him. I think he likes A.
Think it says - 'He came with Audrey'
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27th Friday (I feel I am failing Jan(Groom) here as I can't read it all. Maybe RTW will have more luck!
Went to Sandra's (?) home with Bill. We found it a bit odd .................................
Went home in taxi.
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27th Friday (I feel I am failing Jan(Groom) here as I can't read it all. Maybe RTW will have more luck!
Went to Sandra's (?) home with Bill. We found it a bit odd .................................
Went home in taxi.
27th Sept - Fri
Went to Golders Green with Bill ...... Had a bad day at office. Went to ................... Went home in a taxi.
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29th Sunday
Percy ..... coming in afternoon. (Did a cake?) Got up at 11.30, had dinner. ..... came about 1.30. Went to church evening s Audrey and Stanley had a little chat.
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29th Sunday
Percy ..... coming in afternoon. (Did a cake?) Got up at 11.30, had dinner. ..... came about 1.30. Went to church evening s Audrey and Stanley had a little chat.
Percy possibly coming in afternoon. Did not come. Got up at 11.30 (etc.)
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3rd Thursday
Had a .... in post .... Stanley he seems very funny nowadays. Rang Morris up again Something seemed wrong with him. Went to choir practice just to see people there .........................
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3rd Thursday
Had a .... in post .... Stanley he seems very funny nowadays. Rang Morris up again Something seemed wrong with him. Went to choir practice just to see people there .........................
Could it be -
Went up in bus with Stanley. He seems very funny nowadays. Rang Morris up again. Something seems wrong with him. Went to choir practice just to see people there. Walked dog out on Dollis*
*open space with Dollis Brook running through it near Hendon
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Another go at 27th:
Went to Golders Green with Bill Watson. Had a bad day at the office. Went to ? at Market Lane. Went home in a taxi.
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5th October Saturday
Madge coming to tea. Met Madge at Hendon Central at 1.30. Went and saw The Bride of Frankenstein and Heat Wave. Kept Mummy up.
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She certainly has a wide circle of friends doesn’t she?
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I think people did have lots of friends in those days. No television, no internet, and a lot of young people made friends through work and the church. They would probably feel sorry for our relatively isolated lifestyle today. My mother was born in 1917 so two years younger that the lady whose diary we are transcribing. She used to tell stories of going round in groups, males and females, who all worked in the office or attended the same church. They all had bicycles so would think nothing of all going off for a picnic together in the summer.
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Hi all.
This is tremendous stuff - you are so quick. I think it may be of help to you if you knew the names of some of my mother friends at the time, so I am preparing a list from the address section of her 1935 diary. You were right to say that Jack was a girl. This is Jackie, one of her very best friends who remained in touch until the end. Jackie eventually married Reg who I am sure will be mentioned at some time.
In the mean time, I am sending the next instalment.
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My mother was born in 1917 so two years younger that the lady whose diary we are transcribing. She used to tell stories of going round in groups, males and females, who all worked in the office or attended the same church.
Yes, that's very true GS - my mother was born 1920 and I know she went around in a large group of people connected with the church. That's how she met my father and how her brother met his wife. They belonged to the same church and played together at the local badminton club.
I have no knowledge of shorthand, but this diary is fascinating, GS and redtonyt are doing a marvellous job. I don't suppose you have any photos londonscorpion so we can put faces to names?
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Off we go again then! RT and I decided on the previous month to do alternate days, so I'll start off with the first entry:
6th Sunday
Went to church in evening Came home with Stanley. Did nothing very special.
(Hardly a wildly exciting start to the month ;D)
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7th Mon
Went to Agricultural Hall, Islington. First day of ?????? and Leisure Fair. Left home about 9.15. Bought wool for jumper.
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9th Wed
Was going down to dance at church, but did not fancy it, so did not bother.
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11th Fri
All day at Agricultural Hall. Helped Mr. Boris(?) clear away .......... then went to station together.
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8th Tuesday
Went to Agricultural Hall in morning and office in afternoon.
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These entries look relatively straightforward (famous last words)!
13th Oct - Sun
Nothing in particular in morning. Was going to church but got up too late. Went and had supper with Robert Brooks. Annie is much nicer. Was going to church in evening but did not.
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10th Thursday
Did nothing special.
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15th Tues - blank entry
17th Thurs -
Morris went down road about 11 o'clock in morning.
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12th Saturday
Went to Golders Green with Mum and Bubbles in afternoon. Bought a brassiere and a few other things. No-one ..... no-one rang.
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19th - Sat
Mr and Mrs Barget, Mary and Betty came to tea. Had a marvellous time. Got pattern for jumper.
21st - Mon
Mr Stewart came. Had a talk on psychology. Very interesting. Took dog for a walk. Went round to Kings Close but did not see Morris.
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GS
I think that 'parasol' on the 12th might read 'brassiere' ?
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14th Monday
Nothing very interesting except nearly got run over in .....? and Bubbles saw Peter. He wanted to know if she still has the same place (?). Had an interesting discussion at the office.
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GS
I think that 'parasol' on the 12th might read 'brassiere' ?
Ha ha, I was trying to figure it out. So she's got an upward 'r' that looks like an 'l', whereas I would have used a downward 'r' since it's not followed by a vowel ;D
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23rd Wed
Did not lunch with Gerry. Took dog for a walk in evening. Morris came down road in car. Saw him later. He was very nice. I remained very cool. Rather .................. Saw Stanley afterwards. I think he was going to see Audrey.
(Has she fallen out with Morris?)
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I think she's cooled off Morris since he's not been answering her telephone calls or is too busy. She shouldn't waste any more time on him ;D ;D ;D
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GS
I think that 'parasol' on the 12th might read 'brassiere' ?
Figured she wouldn't need a parasol in October!
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25th Fri
Supposed to be lunching with Gerry. Went up in bus with Stanley. Apparently my summons(?) came through but no-one told me anything about it except Bubbles.
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Here's a pic of the Agricultural Hall, which later became the Design Centre.
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GS
I think that 'parasol' on the 12th might read 'brassiere' ?
Figured she wouldn't need a parasol in October!
Well I did wonder, but of course the church might have had a Gilbert & Sullivan night coming up ;D ;D ;D
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27th Sun
Met Mr Stewart at Belsize Park at 3.50. Very interesting. Some very nice people there. Enjoyed myself very much. Was going to Rothburgs, Wish I had done because .............was there.
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18th Friday
Went to Gamages and bought wool for a new jumper.
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29th Tues
Met Madge today instead of yesterday in usual spot. Jackie walked down with me. Met Ian on Embankment. Introduced Gerry to him. She came and saw Madge. We went and had a chin wag.
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20th Saturday
Jerry came. Did not go out until evening (or possibly afternoon - she uses the same outline). They went to church Saw Stanley He had specially come up with Andrew(?).
Morris went down road in evening.
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31st Thurs
Meet Lowis at 8 o'clock at Hall. Meet mummy at Moorgate at 12.15. Had an interview with Mr. Smith. Had a marvellous time. Had told him a very nice fellow. He brought me home.
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2nd Nov - Sat
Saw Betty Lorimer in morning. Both went shopping together. Had a good old chin wag. Got home about 1 o'clock. Went up to Rothburgs with mummy in afternoon (evening). They were out. Did some shopping.
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22nd - blank
24th Thursday
Went up in bus with Stanley. Cannot understand Stan, he seems to forget his manners occasionally. Finishing front of jumper.
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4th Nov - Mon
Went to Rothburgs in evening. Mr R asked me what I thought about Elspeth (?). I did not say much. Saw Molly when going home. Wheel of her car came off.
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6th - Wed
Met Madge at Walton Charing X at 6.30. Went up to Rothburgs in evening.
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8th - Fri
Going to dinner at Regent Palace with Grandpa. Had a very nice time. Left about 10.15.
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Apparently my summons(?) came through but no-one told me anything about it except Bubbles.
Summons - what has she done?
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Maybe that was when she nearly got run over on the 14th! Perhaps she got a summons for wandering about in the traffic. ;D
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26th Saturday
Hairdressers 10 o'clock with Mr Charles
Went to Golders Green with Bubbles, got in about 9.30 ........
Also seemed fine. Went to see Mrs Rushbrook. Peter ..... had left.
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28th Monday - blank
30th Wednesday
Meet Madge at Charing Cross at 6.30.
see day previous
Had bath instead.
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Maybe that was when she nearly got run over on the 14th! Perhaps she got a summons for wandering about in the traffic. ;D
;D
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1st Nov Friday
40 Howlitt Road at 8 o'clock after college(?)
All cancelled now.
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3rd Sunday
Got up about eleven o'clock Did washing. Went out in afternoon.
Saw boy who brought me home from dance. Also saw Morris He did not stop with his motor (or was it with his mother?) Rothburgs came evening, met them when I was coming from church. They stopped for supper.
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5th Tuesday
Went to Rothburgs in evening.
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3rd Sunday
Got up about eleven o'clock Did washing. Went out in afternoon.
Saw boy who brought me home from dance. Also saw Morris He did not stop with his motor (or was it with his mother?) Rothburgs came evening, met them when I was coming from church. They stopped for supper.
'motor' seems more logical, but think there was reference to him not getting on with his mother earlier on
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7th Thursday
Meet Mrs Rothbury at 9.50.
She could not come so Mrs R came with me instead to Hendon Police Court.
Went to the office about 11 o'clock.
(Gosh!)
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9th Saturday
Meet Jackie at Tottenham Ct Road Booking Hall at 10.30.
Walked all up Oxford Street and Regent Street and Bond Street.
Went to supper with the Rothburgs in the evening.
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She could not come so Mrs R came with me instead to Hendon Police Court.
Perhaps she was summonsed to attend as a witness (when she nearly got run over)
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Looks like we're done :) (for now)
Need to know what happened at Court ???
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She could not come so Mrs R came with me instead to Hendon Police Court.
Perhaps she was summonsed to attend as a witness (when she nearly got run over)
That must be it as she hasn't mentioned anything else has she? She didn't say a lot about nearly getting run over did she, just a casual remark? I wonder why her parents didn't go with her?
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I wonder why her parents didn't go with her?
perhaps she didn't tell them .........
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Bubbles knew though didn't she?
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I am wondering if Mr Rothburg was a solicitor, or some such pillar of society, since suddenly in this period, she is going there most evenings. I just imagined her heart dropping when she found that Mrs Rothburg couldn't go to court with her. So another Mrs R went instead. Yes I agree, RT, she might not have told them. Or she might not have wanted them there.
I think Morris is a lost cause now - he seems to be adopting evasive tactics, ducking and weaving and hiding in the undergrowth. ;D
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Bubbles knew though didn't she?
Perhaps all will be revealed In the next pages.
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Good morning GS and RT. The mention of court is indeed intriguing - Here are the pages for 10 Nov to 7 Dec. We wait with baited breath.
I am still working on the friends list.
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Morning LS,
If you are happy to let one of us know by PM the name of your mother, we might be able to find some reference to her Court appearance in a local newspaper.
I am off out to the hairdressers shortly and will look in again later.
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Morning LS and RT - I'm off to the craft shop for the day. Provided the wifi doesn't go on the blink there, I'll welcome doing a bit of transcription between customers!
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Are we doing alternates again?
Most of it is longhand, some of which I can't read!
10th Nov 1935 - Sun
Jackie and Reg possibly coming to tea. Did actually go to church. Had a very nice time. Had an open invitation.
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12th - Tues
Blank page
14th - Thurs
Damsel in Distress at Rudolph Stevenson(?).
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16th Nov - Sat
Interview at ICI at 10.30. Got on very well.
18th Nov - Mon
Fell down steps.
20th Nov - Wed
Blank page
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22nd Nov - Fri
Film Ball. Morris and Phil came round in evening. I was pleased to see Morris. Asked them to come round on Monday.
(Morris back in favour?)
24th - Sun
Went to church in evening. Saw Audrey. Went for a walk.
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26th Nov - Tues
Meet Molly at 8.15 at Hendon Central. Jackie away from office. Joyce ringing me up.
28th Nov - Thurs
Playing heat in Table Tennis Tournament after 6. To play in lunch hour now. Jackie away from office.
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30th Nov - Sat
May be going to see Glamorous Night. Meet Madge at one at Charing X. Best play I've ever seen. Novello and Mary Ellis in it.
(Will wait for GS to catch up)
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11th Monday
Going on bus to meeting at Kinsway Hall with BD, Jack, Reg(?) and Jack's mother. Very good food(?). Geo Loundsbury ............. young fellow he was also very good.
13th - Blank
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15th Friday
40 Hewlett Road
Saw Morris He passed me on the way to the office. I was on the bus. He caught the bus.
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17th Sunday
Went to tea with Peggy P. Had quite a nice time. Jerry came.
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19th - blank
21st Thursday
Going to Joyce's.
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23rdd Saturday
Hairdressers at 8.45. A friend of Bubbles came to tea in the afternoon.
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25th Monday
Joyce coming round in evening. Also Morris and Phil. They did not turn up. (Transcriber's note: The swine! ;D)
Saw Morris but Joyce was going home. He took her home then brought me home.
Jackie away from office.
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27th Wednesday
Meet Madge at 6.20.
Had a chat and went for a walk. Joyce rang me up.
Jackie away from office.
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29th Friday
Table Tennis Tournament
..... playing Jackie because she will be away. Met Gwen and Margaret on way home. Had quite a long conversation.
Have you transcribed 1st Dec yet, RT?
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1st Dec - Sun
Went to ............... in afternoon and church in evening. Stanley, Peter and Audrey to supper. Peter looked most disgusted(?). Went for another walk with D.
3rd Dec - Tues
Blank page.
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GS - think there's more on the 27th Nov -
Went to Joyces but she was out. Did not pay any 1/2ds in to the swear box all week.
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5th Dec - Thurs
Meet Madge at Charing X at 6.20.
7th Dec - Sat
Rehearsal at 8 o'clock
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Sorry GS - should have posted the 2nd Dec - you confused me asking if I'd transcribed the 1st!
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2nd Dec - Mon
Jackie not at office. Promised to do fruit for puddings.
Will wait to see what day you post next!
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The diarist is running out of steam isn't she? Perhaps the novelty is wearing off.
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and no mention of that Court case .... what was all that about?
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are you doing the 4th and 6th Dec?
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Will do RT. But first, on the 22nd Nov I think she was over-pleased to see Morris. Silly girl, you're too good for him, we cry. Hoping that she didn't actually marry Morris eventually or this will be a seriously foot-in-mouth comment ;D
22nd Nov - Fri
Film Ball. Morris and Phil came round in evening. I was /over pleased to see Morris. Asked them to come round on Monday.
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4th - Wednesday
Dance?
6th - Friday
Going to watch rehearsal of play. Kitty calling for me at 8.15. Given part in sketch. Joined Magdalen Players.
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Definitely 'over' pleased. Doesn't look anything like 'very' ::)
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I puzzled over that for a long time because I read it as 'very' on the first sweep, but then thought, no, her shorthand is quite good so she wouldn't make a mistake like that. And of course, she also gave us the vowel!
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Perhaps the next instalment will give some clues as to Morris.
Why would she be over-pleased? Odd word to use.
As you say, hope these are not foot-in-mouth comments :-[
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Well, I suppose she had a crush on him, poor girl. And then he and Phil were going round to her house and didn't turn up. The fellow is a total cad! ;D
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Hello, my name is Lyn and I still use shorthand. I started to learn New Era Pitman when I was 13 years old in the late '50s.
Re 23 July, 1935 - the words that are missing are 'As a matter of fact' I like him very much.
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Here are the names from the 1935 diary
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Lyn,
Many thanks for that contribution and I am sure GS, RT will be delighted too.
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LS
From the downloaded 1935 diary names you have queried whether 'M Ferguson' or 'M Murphy' is Morris.
There is a Maurice Murphy born 1915 living at 67 Sevington Road, Hendon.
If you don't know Morris/Maurice's surname, it is assumed he is not your father, as could have been the case from the diary entries.
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Didn't our diarist say fairly early on that Morris lived in Golders Green? (Must go and read back now!)
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The diary refers to 'Morris and Phil'. The names list mentions a P Davies. Living at the same address as Maurice Murphy is a Philip Davies born 1914.
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RT you are right, Morris is not my father.
I am intrigued to know what records you have located for Phil and Morris/Maurice in 1935?
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If that's the correct Morris/ Maurice, going by his birth (given in 1939) he died in Windsor in 1980 - so he survived WW2.
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I have sent a message to LS about the record I found.
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29 June - went for a walk with him 'by the river'. lyn
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GS, Your post of 12 April says .... met at Golders Green...
Maybe the meeting was on a bus which came from Morris's home and passed by GG where my mother got on? So he could have lived elsewhere.
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Ah yes, I just remembered some connection between Morris as Golders Green; so he could really have been living anywhere in the area. Fairly local to our diarist, I assume, as she keeps seeing him in various vehicles.
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Here are the last entries for 1935 - they are all in longhand but they do complete the year. I am now in the process of preparing the 1st half of 1935 which is where the shorthand entries begin.
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As it's all longhand, here's the first week:
8th Sunday - Went to church in evening. Supposed to be going down to Jackies. Percy came.
9th Monday - Jackie back at office. Rehearsal.
10th Tuesday - Stayed in.
11th Wednesday - Social. In a sketch 'Picturing'. Norah or someone calling for me. Lunched with Jerry.
12th Thursday - Ringing Madge.
13th Friday - Was going down to rehearsals but having hair washed instead.
14th Saturday - Perm 9.15.
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Norah (Noreen) is the given name of Jackie (N. Jackson).
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15th Sunday - Went to ........ in afternoon and church in evening.
16th Monday - Prepared for fruit for Xmas pudding.
17th Tuesday - Going out with Jerry of an evening. Forgot meeting Mummy at Charing X at 6.30. Madge rang.
18th Wed - blank
19th Thurs - blank
20th Fri - Meet Madge at Charing X at 6.15
21st Sat - Meet Bubbles at Paddington. Saw her off to Cardiff. Went to office in morning.
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Her entries are getting shorter aren’t they? Interesting that it must have taken so long to have her hair washed that she couldn’t go to a rehearsal - the original excuse, “I can’t come out I’m washing my hair.”
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22nd Sunday - Jerry came for day.
23rd Monday - blank
24th Tuesday - Get everything ready for Xmas. Put up decorations.
25th Wednesday - Went up to tea with WIGS.
26th Thursday - Took dog for walk in afternoon
27th Friday - Rehearsal at St Mary Magdalen
28th Saturday - Saw 'Flame Within' with Ann Harding & Herbert Marshall.
Went to supper at Rothburgs.
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What's that 3rd word on the 15th?
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29th Sunday - Went to church in evening and ........ (that word again?) in afternoon.
30th Mon - blank
31st Tues - blank
1936
1st Dec - Wed - IMPS (not doing very well am I!) Xmas party. (IMPS appears to be a dancing/entertainment group)
2nd Thurs - blank
3rd Fri - rehearsal for Baa Baa Black Sheep
4th Sat - Going to Edgware. Saw Mrs Pointer. Called to see her.
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I wondered whether it could be 'Chris' but without the 'h'.
1st Jan I read as Imps Xmas Party.
Was wondering if Imps was the name of a group she belonged to, unless it was a nickname for someone.
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I thought 'choir'!
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1st Jan I read as Imps Xmas Party.
Was wondering if Imps was the name of a group she belonged to, unless it was a nickname for someone.
Perhaps LS can tell us.
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I wondered whether it could be 'Chris' but without the 'h'.
1st Jan I read as Imps Xmas Party.
Was wondering if Imps was the name of a group she belonged to, unless it was a nickname for someone.
I think that is an apostrophe s rather than a dot over the i, if you look at the word evening, she hasn’t dotted the i there.
Could it be Temps Christmas party?
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Could it be Temps Christmas party?
I think GS is probably right - IMPS was a dancing/entertainment group in the Hendon area in 1935.
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Oh thanks for that RT. I remember in my youth belonging to am dram/operatic groups and they always had names like that, none of which I can immediately call to mind.
I find her entries about Christmas interesting, in that she doesn't put up the decorations until Christmas Eve whereas nowadays people seem to come back from their Christmas hols and put them up in September. I remember my own childhood back in the 1950s, at my grandparents' house, with the uncles putting up the tree and decorations a couple of days before Christmas, my mother and aunt and grandmother baking and sipping sherry, we kids with pots of flour & water paste and brushes, making the paper-chains.
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we kids with pots of flour & water paste and brushes, making the paper-chains
;D
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I must admit that my first reading of this was "Temps", but I think GS has it with "Imps". Could it be an acronym * * * Society?
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Not at all sure what that word on the 15 Dec is.
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I'll put it up so others can have a look; anyone got any ideas here?
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Here are the first entries for 1935. The shorthand starts again in February.
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Off we go with first week of 1935:
1st Tues - blank
2nd Wed - blank
3rd Thursday - Going out with Madge and Peggy Meet outside Walton's Charing Cross at 6.30. Saw John Loder & Victoria Hopper in Lorna Doone at Adelphi.
4th Friday - Rehearsal at Ambassadors Hall, H. Central
5th Saturday - Dress rehearsal at Christ Church Hall, Hendon
[see below a poster for the film which I found on the net]
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6th Sun - blank
7th Mon - Meet Peter at Hendon Central Station 8.15
8th Tues - blank
9th Wed - Going to Theatre with Jackie and Miss Downer. Saw 'Shining Hour', Gladys Cooper and Raymond Massey. Good show.
10th Thurs - Madge's birthday
11th Fri - Motley Show 'Back Stage' at Christ Hall, Hendon at 8
12th Sat - Motley Show 'Back Stage' at Christ Hall, Hendon at 8
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13th Sunday - blank
14th Monday - blank
15th Tuesday - blank
16th Wednesday - Meet Molly at Golders Green Booking Hall at 6.45.
17th Thursday - See Deardrie
18th Friday - Motley & Doctors
19th Saturday - blank
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20th Sun - blank
21st Mon - Meet Deardrie and Derrick at Hendon Central Station at 8 o'clock
22nd Tues - Doctor
23rd Wed - blank
24th Thurs - Choir
25th Fri - Saw 'Dick Whittington' at Golders Green with Peggy and Ba.
26th Sat - Town to see about some material for evening dress. See Dr in evening.
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I have just been looking at my mother's diary for 1936 and, lo and behold, there are entries in the address section for M Murphy and P Davis. So, apart from a small difference in the spelling of Phil's surname, I think Morris and Phil were correctly identified.
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In 1936 Morris's address was 242, Bell Lane, Hendon.
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Just been looking at that address on the map; I most confess I didn't actually know where Hendon was, other than that being amongst the amorphous London sprawl. So I've increased my geographical knowledge - not an area I know at all. Looking at the map shows the proximity of the oft mentioned Golders Green, though.
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Just throwing this out to you:
The Hendon & Finchley Times 18 February 1938 has a small article about Maurice Murphy of Bell Lane, Hendon, getting a traffic violation.
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Gosh, that's interesting bbart! Maurice sounds as though he's one for the fast cars, so perhaps not surprising. Great find ;D
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Gosh, that's interesting bbart! Maurice sounds as though he's one for the fast cars, so perhaps not surprising. Great find ;D
He was fined for driving without due care and attention - he cut some-one up and hooted at them. ;D
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He was fined for driving without due care and attention - he cut some-one up and hooted at them
with his musical hooter ;D
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He was fined for driving without due care and attention - he cut some-one up and hooted at them
with his musical hooter ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Look what I found - this ad is from 1935 and could be for the very thing!
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;D ;D ;D
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Could this be Maurice?
Hendon & Finchley Times 20 May 1938
For sale
1937 Standard Flying 9 de luxe saloon, finished maroon, whole car spotless and impossible to fault, fitted radio, a low mileage bargain for the discriminate purchaser at £105, taxed, terms, exchanges. M Murphy, 153 Bell Lane, Hendon
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Couldn't find one with a maroon finish, but here's the Standard Flying 9!
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Could this be Maurice?
Hendon & Finchley Times 20 May 1938
For sale
1937 Standard Flying 9 de luxe saloon, finished maroon, whole car spotless and impossible to fault, fitted radio, a low mileage bargain for the discriminate purchaser at £105, taxed, terms, exchanges. M Murphy, 153 Bell Lane, Hendon
So he sold the car soon after the court case.
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I must admit that my first reading of this was "Temps", but I think GS has it with "Imps". Could it be an acronym * * * Society?
There are lots of articles in the old papers about the IMPS, but finally found a few that said what it meant: Junior Imperial and Constitutional League
Wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Conservatives_(UK)#Origins
(Sorry, I know I'm a few pages behind the rest of you.... just trying to catch up and understand the history of the times!)
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It's interesting looking at the Standard 9. My boyfriend and I had a Standard 8 Tourer 1948 with a soft top. We painted the car in turquoise. I learnt to drive in this car - 3 inch clearance on the steering wheel before it started to turn.
I have only recently looking at this site - just joined RootsChat - and it's probably too late, but here are some suggestions:
29th June by the river
6 July Saw Phil in the 'street'
11 July Lorimer
17 July sulked not cried
28 July went for a paddle
We have an old family Holy Bible here and there are two pages of shorthand at the back. I transcribed this years ago, but unfortunately have lost the paper and there's no copy on the computer. If anyone is interested, I'll make an attachment. lyn
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Welcome to Rootschat Lyn. Hope you're enjoying following this thread; I know I'm finding it fascinating. Not sure I agree with your suggested alterations, but your input is most welcome. If you're about when LS posts the next shorthand pieces, you're welcome to have a go with the raw material - the more the merrier. RT and I have been communicating by PM to split up the work so we're not both working on the same day; if you would like to work on some, then we could PM you too.
GS
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That will be good. I don't want to get in the way and quite happy to plod along in the background. lyn
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You're not getting in the way Lyn - Rootschat is not exclusive, everyone's welcome to join in. Welcome aboard! :)
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Good morning all and a big welcome to BB and LD. I will be posting February 1935 shortly. In the mean time some follow up on recent findings.
The 11 & 12 Jan references to "Motley show" must refer to The Motley Crew who I have found were an amateur dramatic society in Hendon - there are references in the Hendon and Finchley Times from1935 to 1938. I have not, though, found any reference to "Baa Baa Black Sheep" as being one of their productions.
A brilliant finding from BB about IMPS.
RT and GS: I love the pictures of the cars. Interesting though that Mr Murphy is selling the car (in 1938) from 153 Bell Lane when his diary address (in 1936) is definitely 242 Bell Lane.
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Here we go. Jan 28th to Feb 23rd 1935.
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RT and GS: I love the pictures of the cars. Interesting though that Mr Murphy is selling the car (in 1938) from 153 Bell Lane when his diary address (in 1936) is definitely 242 Bell Lane.
He was at yet another address in 1939. Maybe he just rented rooms in houses.
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In 1939 Morris was living at 67 Sevington Road which appears to be Phil's family home. This address is also recorded for Phil in the 1935 diary where his surname is correctly spelt as Davies. The 1936 dairy spelling of Phil's surname is, as I suspected, just wrong.
As you suggest, groom, Morris seemed to move around.
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Shall I start -
1936 - Jan
27th Sun - blank
28th Mon - Went up to Wigs
29th Tues - blank
30th Wed - blank
31st Thurs - Going to see 'Young Mr. Disraeli' with Jackie and Miss Downer - postponed.
1st Feb - Fri - blank
2nd Sat - ............(that word again?!) Squash. Going to town in morning.
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Will be posting second week shortly - got distracted by a bit of gardening ;D
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3 Feb Sunday - blank
4 Feb Monday - Imps at Mill Hill meet Charles outside Harwood Hall 8.15.
5 Feb Tuesday - Met Billy W...? Wants me to go to Golders Green Imps.
6 Feb Wednesday - Went up to Wigs. Went to the Dr's last night. Surgery hours changed from 6.30 - 7.30 to 5.30 - 6.30.
7 Feb Thursday - Grandpa arrives in London.
8 Feb Friday - Meet here with Jerry outside B...? for lunch. In the evening at the Regent Palace for dinner. First Cocktail.
9 Feb Saturday - Went up to Paddington and saw Grandpa and Auntie Mobs/Mabs go back to Weston.
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Think the 5th Feb is ' Met Billy Watson'.
Gardening? It's blowing a gale here, tipping with rain. Localised flooding and trees down! It's like the middle of winter.
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10th Feb Sunday - blank
11th Feb Mon - Saw Billy Watson and came home with him in his car.
12th Feb Tues - Met Bob in his car. Came home with him. Stood gassing for hours.
13th Feb Wed - Meet Madge outside Waltons at 6.15. Going to see 'Hi Diddle Diddle'.
14th Feb Thurs - Met Bob at the end of the road at 7.20. Went and saw Ice Hockey match at Wembley.
15th Feb Fri - blank
16th Feb Sat - blank
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17th Feb Sunday - Blank
18th Feb Monday - Imps at Mill Hill. Saw my darling* (?) Peter on my way home.
19th Feb Tuesday - Meet Bob at end of road at 7.30. Had a marvellous time. Went for a drive.
20th Feb Wednesday - Meet Peggy & Madge outside Waltons. Cancelled. Going to see optician.
21st Feb Thursday - blank
22nd Feb Friday - blank
23rd Feb Saturday - Bought stuff for evening dress.
* Not sure of that outline, others might like to check it as I don't want to attribute a crush to our diarist if none existed!
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18th Feb Monday - Imps at Mill Hill. Saw my darling* (?) Peter on my way home.
I read it as 'darling' too - all the while meeting Bob at the end of the road ;D
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Our diarist seems to have been very popular. Ah, what it is to be young. I think I just about remember..... ;D
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Any idea of the word before 'Squash' on the 2nd February. Think it's the same one we struggled with previously.
The diary entries make me smile - she seems so carefree :)
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Circ... perhaps? There's an apostrophe there so might indicate a shortening?
Hmm.... circuit; circus; circle; circular; circumstantial.... the list is endless! ;D
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Some observations.
Auntie Mobs would have been her Grandpa’s second wife Mable. They were going back to Weston super Mare.
I have found an IMPS address: The Secretary of IMPS, 7 Highwood Grove, Mill Hill, NW7. I wonder if this is also the address of the branch she frequented.
I have cannot find any address for a Billy Watson. I presume Billy would be a William and the only address we have for a possible William is for a W.W. Stone living in Clapham Common.
I would imagine the “darling” comment is in shorthand to hide it from parental/sibling view. Let’s see if there are other references to Peter in the coming months.
There is a birthday section in the diary and it gives a date of 13th January for Morris. So from the 1939 register we now know his birthday was 13 Jan 1915 which makes him about a year and a half older than my mother.
I wonder if that word on the 2nd February is circus, as in Piccadilly or Oxford? There is big crossroads in Hendon called Central Circus. Does this make sense for the first occurrence on 15th December 1935.
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Regarding your final para, LS, that would make the sentence "Went to circus this afternoon", which would not be impossible. I'm thinking of the circuses with clowns and elephants - were they all-year attractions or did they just perform in the summer months?
I think there were quite a lot of subsequent references to Peter in the later months already transcribed. I will have to look at them again, with new eyes!
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Regarding the "circus" word:
I may be way off base here, but scouring the old newspapers, some articles/advertisements mention Circus, some write it as Central Circus, but in every article it is in the same context of being an area of shops, such as a car dealership, a pastry shop, a hairdresser, etc.
This link describes where it was: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Hendon_Central_Circus
Would this fit in with her mentions of the (query) circus word?
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Thanks bbart, that's useful. So we assume it's not the circus with the jugglers and bare-back riders, but a busy shopping centre. ;D
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A little aside here, to note that my father was only 15 miles away from these happenings in 1935. He was born in Middlesbrough, and in 1935 joined the RAF in Leeds, and then spent some months at RAF Uxbridge. I have his diary which he started when he joined the RAF; he continued it throughout his postings during WW2 to Egypt and the Western Desert in 1941 so there's some interesting stuff in there.
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Greensleeves, you are so lucky to have that diary! If there is any event or mention of something you would like the background on, do let us know!
Looking back at Londonsleeves last post, I see he had already mentioned Central Circus. ::) I must try to read more carefully!
I have been tracking the Murphy family around, and have a question. At what age would Maurice been included on the electors lists? I ask because it looks like his father was George Maurice, and not living with Maurice and his mom, so just trying to sort out father from son at this point.
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I believe men at that time were eligible to vote once they had turned 21, bbart. Reading back, I see Maurice's birth date was 13th January 1915, so would have been eligible to vote in 1936.
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I believe men at that time were eligible to vote once they had turned 21, bbart. Reading back, I see Maurice's birth date was 13th January 1915, so would have been eligible to vote in 1936.
Thank you for that... I wanted to make sure I wasn't mixing up father and son. My search has perhaps yielded why Maurice was shy of developing relationships.
Although the following has nothing to do with this thread, it's always interesting to know more about the cast of characters in the diary, so here goes, and apologies for going off on a tangent:
Maurice's parents were George Maurice Murphy and Emma MABEL Slyth. George was a postal worker (letter carrier), and (at least) prior to marriage, Mabel was a jewellry shop assistant.
They had son Maurice George in 1915, and daughter Edna Mary Mabel in 1916.
In 1921 and 1922 they lived at 17 Cannon Road, Wood Green (Haringey)
In 1923, they parted ways (see attached image):
By the 1928 electoral list, they are back together at 11 Tenterden Drive (Barnet, Hendon) but at some point before 1935, they parted again (I'll just post my notes for the rest)
1935, Mabel Murphy at 242 Bell Lane
1935 George Maurice Murphy 24 Caversham Rd., Camden St Pancras (many people at this address, perhaps a boarding house)
1936, 1937 and 1938 153 Bell Lane (Maurice George Murphy with Mabel Murphy) (as a side note, in the same years there is also an Anna and Patrick Murphy at 149 Bell Lane)
1939 Maurice Murphy 67 Sevington Rd (With Davies family)
1939 George M Murphy (now a house decorator) with daughter Edna M M Murphy. 24 Caversham Rd. There is a notation from 1974 stating a new surname for daughter of Doyle.... freebmd gives a marriage for her in 1972 to a James Doyle.
1939 Mabel E Murphy living alone at 9 Thornfield Court Holders Hill Road , Hendon Occupation is Manageress, Sales lady Jewellry, temporarily incapacitated. (Prior to marriage, in 1911 census, she worked in jewellry as an assistant, and birthday is correct)
1944 possible death for Mabel Murphy in Hendon, although too many Mabel Murphy's to be sure.
1957 George Maurice Murphy passes away, probate to Edna Mary Mabel Murphy, spinster. His address was 59 Chandros Ave, Ealing. Cemetery records show he was buried in a grave for two.
1980 Maurice George Murphy passes away, registered in Windsor,Berkshire. Index shows correct birth date.
2000 Edna M M Doyle passes away, registered in Canterbury, Kent
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BB, that is an amazing amount of detail you have gathered on the Murphy family and it may well explain Morris's behaviour. It is always interesting to have background information.
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Here are the pages for 24 February to 30 March.
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What a lovely snapshot of life just before WW2. Thank you everyone involved. :)
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Glad you're finding the diary interesting, Medpat. I am thoroughly enjoying this project and big thanks to LS for posting.
Here's the first week of the next month:
February
24 Sunday - Saw Vera W at church in evening.
25 Monday - (longhand) Meet Bob at 8 at the end of the road.
(shorthand) He did not turn up.
26 Tuesday - Percy came and lunched with us. Rang Bob up & also wrote him.
27 Wednesday - Hair set at 6.30 Mr Charles. Call for watch at lunch time.
28 Thursday - (longhand) Choir dinner & dance. Percy came.
(shorthand) Did not enjoy myself very much because Bob did not come.
1st March Friday - Ping pong at Gwen's house at 3pm
2nd Saturday - Ping pong at Gwen's house at 3pm.
[Transcriber's note - yet another guy not turning up for a date. What's the matter with these fellows? Feeling so sorry for our diarist. Oh the pains of youth!]
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3rd Sunday - Saw Bob. Did not know what to do. In the end ......................... of myself.
(help needed with this)
4th Mon - Mill Hill Imps
5th Tues - blank
6th Wed - blank
7th Thurs - Meet Vera W at the Quadrant at 8 to go to Hendon Imps. They weren't on.
8th Fri - blank
9th Sat - Went up to Wigs in evening
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Oh dear, she’s not having much luck with these men is she?
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Morning RT!
3rd Sunday: Saw Bob. Did not know quite what to do. In the end made an ass of myself.
Oh, poor girl.
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10th March Sunday - Saw Bob. Came home with him, asked him to come to the dance.
11th Monday - Bob ringing me up between 12 - 1.
12th Tuesday - Meet Poppy (looks like Poggy) & Madge outside Walton's at 6.30 at Charing Cross. Saw 'Summer's Lease' at the Vaudeville, Strand. Dorice Fordred.
13th Wednesday - blank
14th Thursday - Meet Vera Willis at Quadrant at 8 o'clock. Going to Hendon Imps. Saw Bob.
15th Friday - Hair washed. Saw Bob in morning.
16th Saturday - Hairdresser at 11 o'clock for trim & set.
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17th March Sunday - blank
18th Monday - Phone Peggy some time during the day. Mill Hill Imps. Met Denise. Had a conversation for first time with fellow lives next door to Mr. Charles.
19th Tues - Going to Peggy's house to wish her mother goodbye. Called at Joyce's.
20th Wed - Supposed to meet Denise but postponed it. Went to Kathleen's and had my dress finished.
21st Thurs - blank
22nd Fri - Going to a Dance at Slaters in High Street, Kensington with Bob. Calling for me at 7.30 outside Bouverie House. Had a very nice time. Bob was simply marvellous except for one little upset. Met Reg. Went with Jackie, Bubbles .................
23rd Sat - Organising official day at Hendon or at least helping Bubbles. Meet Roy and Erik at 6 o'clock at top of alley. Saw 'Human Bondage', lousy. 'My Song goes Round the World', very good.
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Been following since this started, wonder if the Diarist ever knew that this would be shared with the world? :D Certainly gives an insight of someone's life back then.
Cheers
KHP
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Well, thank goodness Bob actually turned up!
24th March Sunday - Saw Vera Willis. She did not come out.
25th Monday - Meet Roy & Erik at top of alley at 8 o'clock. Grandad's birthday.
Roy nearly kissed me. We had a marvellous time. Went for a walk.
26th Tuesday - Stopped at home half the morning, didn't feel well. Denise rang me up. Received a letter from Peggy. Was going out with Denise but indisposed.
27th Wednesday - Lunching with Jerry. Received a letter from Reg. Refused to show Jackie.
28th Thursday - Hair washed. Rang Peggy up and cancelled their do at the Fortune see April 13th.
29th Friday - Meet Roy at 8 o'clock at Hendon G.C. Did not turn up. See April 2 for explanation. [Transcriber's note: it had better be a good one!]
30th Saturday - Hairdressers at 10 o'clock. Appointment with Mr Charles. Cancelled owing to *. Went to Denise house in evening, found out where she lived. Walked home.
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22nd Fri - Going to a Dance at Slaters in High Street, Kensington with Bob. Calling for me at 7.30 outside Bouverie House. Had a very nice time. Bob was super (?) marvellous.
(not sure about the next couple of sentences - I must have slept badly!)
I think the final part of 22nd Fri is:
Had very nice time. Bob was simply marvellous except for one little upset about/with (?) Reg. Went with Jackie, Bubbles and ?.
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Been following since this started, wonder if the Diarist ever knew that this would be shared with the world? :D Certainly gives an insight of someone's life back then.
Cheers
KHP
It's intriguing isn't it KHP? I believe the diarist is about 20 - shows how times have changed doesn't it? The way she talks about and reacts to the men would probably be how a 15 year old today would.
It's also little insights for instance the way she puts "Hair washed" rather than "washed my hair", which makes you think someone else was doing it for her.
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22nd Fri - Going to a Dance at Slaters in High Street, Kensington with Bob. Calling for me at 7.30 outside Bouverie House. Had a very nice time. Bob was super (?) marvellous.
(not sure about the next couple of sentences - I must have slept badly!)
I have 'modified' 22nd Fri - to read -
22nd Fri - Going to a Dance at Slaters in High Street, Kensington with Bob. Calling for me at 7.30 outside Bouverie House. Had a very nice time. Bob was simply marvellous except for one little upset. Met Reg. Went with Jackie, Bubbles .................
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GS
25th Monday - Meet Roy & Erik at top of alley at 8 o'clock. Grandad's birthday.
Roy nearly kissed me. We had a marvellous time. Went for a walk.
Think this says -
25th Monday - Meet Roy & Erik at top of alley at 8 o'clock. Grandma's birthday.
Roy nearly kissed me. We had a marvellous time. Went for a walk.
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Reg was Jackie's boyfriend at the time.
I believe groom's observation about hair washing is correct: Mr Charles was a hairdresser and I think quite a well known one.
RT. You are correct: it is "Grandma"
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What will the "explanation" be? Here is April 1935
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Does anyone have any idea what "Wigs" might be. It occurs quite often.
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31st March Sun - Went to the Cemetery and Circus in afternoon. To Circus meeting in evening. Saw Bob in distance.
Not sure that the word is 'Circus' - same word we have mulled over before.
1st April Mon - Going to Mill Hill Imps with Denise. Promised meet at 8.30. Met Brian. Had quite a good time for Mill Hill. Frank came to bus with me.
2nd Tues - Roy telephoned. Told me reason why he did not turn up on Friday. Said goodbye to him.
3rd Wed - Meet Denise at Quadrant outside Gabrielles at 8.15. Saw Billy W. Took me to Golders Green in his car.
4th Thurs - Saw Billy Watson. He took me to Golders Green.
5th Fri - Hair washed.
6th Sat - Hairdressers at 11.15. Appt with Mr. Charles. Bought new dress.
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I was wondering if the word is 'Erin's', Erin being a person who is running a campaign of some sort....?
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7th April Sunday - B. came over, I saw B. had a rotten cold.
8th Monday - Concert at Westminster Abbey with Mr Baigent (?), meet at 6.20 in Westminster Underground Booking H. Very go. Stayed at home, not well.
9th Tuesday - Stopped at home.
10th Wednesday - Went to work. Rang Peggy up. She rang me later.
11th Thursday - Bath in evening.
12th Friday - Dance at Hotel Victoria by Sir Ernest & Lady Benn. Leaving work at H.H5 (?). Bit lousy. Saw Tony Dawson on my way home. He is marvellous.
13th Saturday - See Town's Talking at the Fortune with Madge & Poppy. Cancelled because P. is going to a dance & Madge has put it off. Walked to Edgware.
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Mr Charles was a hairdresser. There is an telephone entry in 1936 for "Charles (H. Dress), Speedwell 7047". Not sure where the Speedwell area was though.
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14th April Sunday - Peggy coming to tea if possible. Can't come.
15th Mon - Mill Hill Imps. Met Denise. First took her dog for a walk, then went to the .......... Brian was there. Did not dance with him.
16th Tues - Meet Peggy and Madge outside Strand C.H. at 6.30 for a chin wag. Went to G.G. in Billy W's car. Said goodbye to Peggy with Madge.
17th Wed - Last dance of Golders Green Mission. Going with D. Having supper with her first. Her house about ................... Easter Parade. Rang Peggy up. Saw Peter in ................. Went to H.G.S. Mission. Danced with a fellow I like. Met .................who came to bus with us.
18th Thurs - Peggy leaves London for Coventry.
19th Fri - Slept at Denise.
20th Sat - Slept at Denise. Nothing exciting happened.
Need some help with the gaps please.
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Hendon & Finchley Times 09 September 1932
Cyril Sidney Charles, proprietor of a hairdressing establishment at Highfield, Golders Green, married Hilda Everett at Christ Church, Hendon. Residence after marriage - Holders Hill, Hendon.
Address in 1939 was 114 Holders Hill Road, Hendon.
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12th Friday - Dance at Hotel Victoria by Sir Ernest & Lady Benn. Leaving work at H.H5 (?). Bit lousy. Saw Tony Dawson on my way home. He is marvellous.
12th Friday - Dance at Hotel Victoria by Sir Ernest & Lady Benn. Leaving work at 4.45. Bit lousy. Saw Tony Dawson on my way home. He is marvellous.
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Any good, RT?
15th Mon - Mill Hill Imps. Met Denise. First took her dog for a walk, then went to the mission. Brian was there. Did not dance with him.
17th Wed - Last dance of Golders Green Mission. Going with D. Having supper with her first. Her house about 7. Easter Parade. Rang Peggy up. Saw Peter in morning. Went to H.G.S. Mission. Danced with a fellow I like. Met Ann/Ena/Annie/Ian (take your pick)who came to bus with us.
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Looks good GS - thank you
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21st April Sun - Denise coming to tea. Going for a walk with Roy. Communion in the morning. Went to church.
22nd Mon - Slept at Denise. Hiking out to Elstree.
23rd Tues - Went round to D's place to collect my goods. Took Peter.
24th Wed - Going round to D's place at 7.30.
25th Thurs - blank
26th Fri - Hair washed.
27th Sat - Hairdressers at 11.45. Went round to Denise in morning. Expect her to tea. Did not turn up.
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What is the matter with these people, that they are consistently not turning up? That is too bad; I imagine our heroine sitting there with some dainty cucumber sandwiches, and a plate of fancies... only to be let down. I am reminded of the days before everyone had a telephone. To be fair, if something happened which prevented you turning up, there was no way to let people know, other than by letter which would arrive the next day. But our diarist had a telephone in the house, so there really is no excuse.
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Where did Roy disappear to (2nd April) all of a sudden? ??? Expected more details.
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Sounds as though she told Roy to sling his hook..... good for her.
Had she known she would have a rapt audience for her diary entries 83 years into the future, she might well have given us more detail about Roy's excuse! ;D
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2nd Tues - Roy telephoned. Told me reason why he did not turn up on Friday. Said goodbye to him.
So we still don't know the reason, but like GS, I think she's dumped Roy.
Why does have her hair washed the day before she goes to the hairdresser, was that the custom then?
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I remember people washing their hair before going to the hairdressers, I know my mother certainly did and she was about the same age as our diarist. I vaguely remember my mother saying you had to be sure that your hair was nice and clean for the hairdresser, which I suppose was very considerate, considering it was going to be washed again anyway.
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Wasn't hair washed once a week?, I remember a courtesy aunt having her hair washed and set once a week back in the 60's.
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Regarding her entry on 12th - dance at Hotel Victoria by Sir Ernest and Lady Benn, she makes a comment 'Bit lousy'. I was wondering if she was referring to the dance or to the way she was feeling. By the way, this Sir Ernest was a politician and publisher, and was uncle to Tony Benn MP, the well-known left-wing British politician who renounced his peerage so that he could stand for parliament. And I also wondered in respect of this entry, who was Tony Dawson? Whoever he was, she thought he was marvellous which seems to imply he might have been someone in the public eye, such as an actor or singer.
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Wasn't hair washed once a week?, I remember a courtesy aunt having her hair washed and set once a week back in the 60's.
I remember a few friends in the 1960s/1970s going to the hairdresser every week - what a waste of a Saturday! ;D
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Good morning all.
Here are the pages for 28th April to 25 May 1935.
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Morning ;D
28th April Sun - Gwen calling at 7.15 for campaign meeting. Saw Bob.
29th Mon - M.H. Mission with D and the .............fellows. They did not turn up, but had quite a good time. Got up and spoke. Said it was too clicky. Saw Peter.
30th Tues - Saw Joyce of Motley Crew.
1st May Wed - Meet Denise for Edgware Imps. Ring her up between 12-1. Saw accident at ...............
2nd Thurs - Saw Peter in morning. Went to Lincolns Inn at dinner time.
3rd Fri - Went up to Wigs in evening. Went to Lincolns Inn at dinner time.
4th Sat - Dance with Denise in evening at St Mary's School Hall. Met at 8.30. Saw Peter in morning. Dance lousy. Reg and the crowd there.
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Just posting next week.....
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5th Sunday - Went down to cemetery. Went to church in evening. Went to Denise.
6th Monday - Going up to see J(ubilee) Procession. Up early.
did not go, heard procession on wireless. Went to park and saw fireworks. Heard King's Speech. Denise came round.
7th Tuesday - Going in evening to see J(ubilee) decorations. Postponed until Friday.
Ring Denise. See procession in Hendon. Saw Bob he did not see me.
8th Wednesday - 1/6d Hop Imps H.G.S. Denise saw Peter in morning. Had marvellous time. Met Dan & Ross, Jack. Had lunch with Uncle A.
9th Thursday - Went to South-end with Denise Dan & Ross. Had simply marvellous time. Saw Jubilee decorations.
10th Friday - Going to see Jubilee decorations etc; with Jackie etc, had quite a good time, nearly squashed.
11th Saturday - Supposed to go to pictures with Denise. She didn't turn up. Went to Tennis. Mr Williams came to tea.
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Here's an image of the procession through London.
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12th Sunday - Saw Peter. Jerry came over. Went to ............ Was introduced to Wilf. Saw Bob.
13th Mon - blank
14th Tues - blank
15th Wed - Going to Edgware Imps with Denise. West Hendon Central Station as soon after 8 as possible.
16th Thurs - Went up to Wigs for evening.
17th Fri - Meet Madge outside ....... at 6.30. Seeing 'One Night of Love', Grace Moore, and Warner Baxter in 'Hells Angels'. Both good.
18th Sat - Going down to Jackie's place to tea. Meet at Norbury at 3.15. Went to Lido to watch dancing.
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19th Sunday - Jerry coming over. Didn't come.
20th Monday - Went out to lunch with Jackie. Wigs in evening. Saw Peter in morning.
21st Tuesday - Rang Denise up. Saw fellow from cemetery.
22nd Wednesday - Lunched with Jerry. Saw fellow from cemetery.
23rd Thursday - Bubbles birthday. Went round to Deardrie in evening. She gave me the cold shoulder.
24th Friday - Motley Crew in evening. No-one there of importance but after went round to 's house. She was not up.
25th Saturday - Was going down to Mission Hall ......... but there was nothing on.
(Any ideas for those gaps, RT or anyone else following?)
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23rd Thursday - Bubbles birthday. Went round to Deardrie in evening. She gave me the gold(?) .........
She gave me the cold shoulder.
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Oh well done, RT. All I kept thinking of was 'leather' ;D ;D ;D
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All these 'friends' not turning up and giving her the cold shoulder ???
Have no idea of the other missing word on the 25th - it's a good outline, but not seeing it ...
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Yes, all her 'friends' seem very casual about keeping appointments.
Her entries about King George V's Silver Jubilee are interesting, 6th May 1935. He came the throne on 6th May 1910, and his coronation was 22nd June 1911. My father was called George because he was born on George V's coronation day. He died a few years ago on St George's Day. My father was always liked things neat and tidy like that!
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25th Saturday - Was going down to Mission Hall ......... but there was nothing on.
Is the word 'bazaar'?! (not that I think that makes sense)
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This poor diarist seems to spend half her time waiting for people who never turn up!
I wonder if the references to phoning at set times is due to the fact that not many people had phones in their houses and had to use public call boxes? Even when I was young I can remember arranging to phone boyfriends and we both used to go to the phone box at the end of our respective roads. It was most frustration if there was already someone in there or worse still if you phoned and a stranger answered! ;D
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25th Saturday - Was going down to Mission Hall ......... but there was nothing on.
Is the word 'bazaar'?! (not that I think that makes sense)
Could well be; maybe they had a regular one and on this day it didn't happen. In that context it would make sense, I think!
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And here are the final pages (unless I am mistaken) for 26 May to 22 June 1935.
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Morning ;D
26th May Sunday - May go hiking or to tea with Peggy Peacocks. Went to Peacocks. Tony was not there.
27th Mon - Saw Peter in morning. He smiled very sweetly. Came up with Daddy.
28th Tues - Saw Vera Willis. Had a chat with her.
29th Wed - Probably Edgware Imps with Denise. Met Peter outside the gate and went up to the bus with him. He was very chatty. Went with Dan and Norman. Met Brian there. Dan walked me home. Saw Bert.
30th Thurs - Going to see 'Love on the Dole' with Jackie, Barbara and Betty. Very good. Saw Stanley. He paid my fare.
31st Fri - Hair wash and bath. Came up with Ellis.
1st June Sat - Burnt Oak Cabaret dance. 2/0d. not going. Hairdressers at 2.30. Met Jerry at Clapham South to go to Battersea for dog. Jerry came. Bought dog, Alsation, Peter. Kathleen came to tea.
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Will be posting second week shortly..... :)
Delayed by man coming to mend front door!
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2nd June, Sunday - Went to Mission church. Dog for a walk in morning. Saw Morris in evening. First time I met him.
3rd Monday - Stayed at home, had to take Peter back because he was ferocious, to call for a pup.
4th Tuesday - Saw Stanley. Went up to Leicester Square with me. Went up to Wigs in evening.
5th Wednesday - Flannel Dance Imps 1/6d. Denise did not turn up, met Morris. Went to Be.... with him, nothing there. Went to pick up Phil. Had an upset, none of us hurt except my arm. M. very perturbed. Arrived home about 1.30. Saw S, he asked me to go to a dance later at Mission hall.
6th Thursday - Get watch. Saw Stanley. Went up in bus with him. Did not do much work because my arm hurt. Morris came round in evening to enquire how it was. Saw Mrs Rothburg.
7th Friday - Got new dog in lunch hour. Mr Redman looked after him he was a bit of a nuisance. Bit me.
8th Saturday - Battersea Dogs home in morning. Grandpa coming up to London, had dinner at the Regent Palace with Grandpa and Uncle A. Doctors in morning.
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9th June Sun - Went for a walk with Stanley. Took dog. Saw him 7 times. He met me from church. Introduced him to Mummy. Told me his name.
10th June Mon - Took Peter for walk in morning. Jerry meant to be coming but didn't. Went for walk with Stanley in evening. Like him very much. Saw Peter.
11th June Tues - Meant to go up with Stanley on bus but missed it. Did not see him in evening. Went to Dr on way home.
12th June Wed - Went up with Stanley in bus. He is very nice. He is going to Whist Drive at Mission Church. He asked me if I was. Saw Denise. Went to Edgware Imps. Bubbles came. Saw Peter. D. liked him.
13th June Thurs - Stanley not on bus. Did not see him in evening. Rang Madge up. Got off all ..............copies. Corner tidy.
14th June Fri - Just missed single decker, otherwise could have seen Stanley.
15th June Sat - Garden Party H.G.S. also Church. Did not go. Felt rotten, so went to bed in afternoon. Went to Hendon in evening and did some shopping.
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Going to get confusing now with her friend Peter and Peter the dog!
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Going to get confusing now with her friend Peter and Peter the dog!
That's what I've just said to GS! ;D
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16th Sunday - Jerry came over. Took dog for a walk in morning, went to Cru's* in afternoon, church in evening. Stanley not there, think he must be ill.
17th Monday - To attend Hendon Police Court at 10.30 to give evidence re accident at Bell. Absolutely wasted day. Came to office at 4.30.
18th Tuesday - Saw Stanley, not ill, just been catching early bus. Went to Wigs in evening. Morris came round, all out. M. came to tell me Stanley was out but did not see him. Said I looked red (?). Stood talking to Morris for ages.
19th Wednesday - Meet Madge outside Strand Corner at 6.30. Saw Peter, he did stop. Stanley on bus, I apologised to him. He needs to see Peter again at Charing +. He did not stop. Went for a walk in St James Park, got home and took out dog. Met Stanley, went for a walk with him.
20th Thursday - Going to Peacocks house to supper and see their cat. Did not see Stanley, got home about 10 o'clock. I hope Stanley did not see me there because .......................the bus he was on, I did not see him. 9 (?) years since Grandma died.
21st Friday - Stanley was not on bus but he may have caught early bus. Went up with Daddy.
22nd Saturday - Provisionally Jackie is coming down, not definite. Reg also coming, may be Morris. Had marvellous time. Morris got his car. Went out for a run. Took Jackie and Reg home. Morris is a great sport and I like him immensely.
* It's that word again. I am wondering if it's Cru's and is a nickname for Motley Crew, the theatre group she belonged to.
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I think you may be right as to 'Cru's' being Motley Crew.
On the 22nd, I think it reads 'Jackie and Reg
I'm also struggling with the 20th. Will have another look after lunch - daughter and grandson arriving soon :)
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20th Thursday - Going to Peacocks house to supper and see their cat. Did not see Stanley, got home about 10 o'clock. I hope Stanley did not see me there because .......................the bus he was on, I did not see him. 9 (?) years since Grandma died.
Can't really make much more sense of it ???
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Not just me then, RT, phew! Trouble is, that outline is really faint.
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This is what I think it looks like ;)
'I hope Stanley did not see me there because would have missed the bus he was on because I did not see him.'
Doesn't make a lot of sense though.
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I know what you mean, RT. Everything I tried sounds like "He doesn't know that I know that he knows....." ;D I suppose our diarist knows what she meant!
I must say, I am feeling a bit sad that this is the last of this young lady's diary. She has shown herself to be a true character and it is wonderful that her diary has given us the opportunity to have a peek at the life of a lively 20 year old in the 1930s London suburbs. Thanks also to LS for sharing and allowing us to transcribe her work; it has been a real privilege.
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This is what I think it looks like ;)
'I hope Stanley did not see me there because would have missed the bus he was on because I did not see him.'
Doesn't make a lot of sense though.
Could it mean that she wanted to catch the bus that Stanley was on, so she was letting buses go past until she saw the one he was on? However, she didn't see him on the bus, so didn't get on?
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17th Monday - To attend Hendon Police Court at 10.30 to give evidence re accident at Bell.
She didn't mention an accident earlier did she?
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Yes, she did Jan - June 5th - in Morris's car they had an 'upset' and everyone was okay other than our diarist whose arm had been hurt. Morris was very perturbed and even went round the next evening to see if she was okay. She subsequently went to see the doctor.
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Missed that one!
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My thanks to LS also - it's been fun ;D
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And nice to 'meet' you and work with you on this RT. We'll both know who to contact when the next shorthand challenge comes along. ;D
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Thank you both GS and RT for all your hard work, I've thoroughly enjoyed following this thread. It's given a huge insight into a time in pre war London, I do hope that all the young men she mentions survived. We know that Maurice did as we found his death didn't we? What a shame it has to end.
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I think your post has put all this into context Jan - life seems carefree in 1935, we see the excitement of the Silver Jubilee of George V, and everything seems fine. But with the benefit of hindsight we know that within four years the whole world would be at war. Our diarist mentions a large number of people, and it would be interesting to know what happened to them all during WW2 as they would all have been involved in one way or another. A sobering thought.
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Good morning to all and a huge thank you for the all the work you have put into the "1935 translation" and for your insights and comments. These have been interesting and immensly helpful in providing context. I am glad that you had so much fun "back in 1935", as I have. I know my mother would have been gratified to know that she had been the cause of so much enjoyment.
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so daily dose of 1935 .. is done :( sad...
So OP fill us in... did she live a happy and fulfilling life -- was she a caring kind person after the angst of teenage years.. and was her Hubby anyone we met.. or is that 'too much information'
You are here so she did move on with her life and we can imagine allsorts of possible ---------- 'Ménage à trois'
I will not ask you to divulge.. I will writ' (ha ha) me own finale'
loved it thank you all and hope I didnt miss any bits.. will have to run through again later.
xin
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An interesting footnote: I was skimming over our work, trying to fill in a few gaps for my own satisfaction, and I find that our diarist worked for Benn's which I suggest is Ernest Benn Ltd, the publishing house. She does mention at one point a ball given by Sir Ernest and Lady Benn, which was presumably for the staff. Ernest Benn was the uncle of British politician Tony Benn.
Regards
GS
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Hi GS,
That is an interesting finding and something I did not know. Which day provided that lead?
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Hi LS - I will have to go back and check. It was one of the early days ie when we first started, and we weren't so used to her writing. I'm on the wrong PC at the mo; I'll post when I've switched.
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Here it is:
24th June Monday - Missed double decker bus so did not see Stanley. But met Morris at Golders Green. He came up with me. I like him more than ever. Went home with Ian from Temple. Been at Benn’s a year.
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Where was Benn's? I can't find an address.
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1931 newspaper
'Full particulars will be supplied by the publishers, BENN BROTHERS LIMITED Bouverie House, Fleet Street London, E.C.4'
Seem to recall diarist meeting someone at Bouverie House?
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Seem to recall diarist meeting someone at Bouverie House?
Here it is -
March
22nd Fri - Going to a Dance at Slaters in High Street, Kensington with Bob. Calling for me at 7.30 outside Bouverie House. Had a very nice time. Bob was simply marvellous except for one little upset. Met Reg. Went with Jackie, Bubbles .................
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Well remembered and found RT!
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So we know her daily commute was from Hendon (?) to Fleet Street.
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Great work. A 23 minute commute from Golders Green on the Northern line. And that explains all the meetings at Charing Cross.
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I have now posted the diary for 1936. You can find it here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=793362.msg6497474#msg6497474