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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: Pheno on Wednesday 11 April 18 15:37 BST (UK)
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Hi, seem to have got in a muddle with this.
According to the online marriage certificate Sarah (Ann) Derrick named her father as Jacob Derrick when getting married to Sidmund Hillman on 15 July 1850 in Clapton in Gordano. Sidmund Hillman is an enigma in himself but I have now unravelled that and don't need any info on him or on them going forward.
I am tracing Sarah Ann Derrick and thus her father Jacob back and am having trouble trying to sort Jacob and his wives out. There is a baptism for a Sarah Derrick on 30 August 1829 in Kingston Seymour to Jacob & Bridget Derrick which I think is the correct one and I can find a marriage of Jacob Derrick to Bridget Carpenter on 4 Feb 1823 in Blagdon, Somerset.
However, tracing Jacob through the census I cannot find him with a wife Bridget, only one called Sarah (refs below). I realise that she could have died before the 1841 census (last child I can find born to the couple is James in 1834) but I can't find a death for her but neither can I find a remarriage for him to a Sarah.
1841: (HO107; Piece: 956; Book: 7; ED: 8; Folio: 26; Page: 3)
1851: (HO107; Piece: 1946; Folio: 514; Page: 1)
1861:(RG 9; Piece: 1711; Folio: 84; Page: 2)
1871:(RG11; Piece: 2463; Folio: 95; Page: 10;
1881:(RG10; Piece: 2517; Folio: 95; Page: 7)
The 1871 census seems to indicate that he may have married a Sarah Offer who came with a daughter Louisa as her relationship to him is stepchild.
Also there are baptisms in Kingston Seymour in 1842 & 1844 of daughters Hannah and Emily where the father is Jacob Derrick and the mother Sarah Pritchett Derrick which led me to think he had married a Sarah Pritchett. Online trees indicate that he married a Sarah Crane (which could be the maiden name of Sarah Offer) but I couldn't find that marriage either.
Maybe he didn't marry any of the Sarah's and maybe Bridget didn't die and they just separated but I haven't found her elsewhere.
So really I could just do with help in sorting Jacob's marriage activities if anyone is able.
Thanks, Pheno
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Jacob's son Jacob married a Catherine Offer at St Thomas, Bristol in 1853.
Marriage at Portishead 15 July 1858
Jacob Derrick f/a Widower labourer of Clapton
s/o Jacob Derrick mason
Sarah Offer f/a Widow of Portishead
d/o Joseph Crane labourer
witnesses: Jane Offer
Wiliam [-]ary [?]
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So it appears that Sarah Offer was already a widow when marrying Jacob in 1858 and that her maiden name was Crane - I will follow that through.
Wonder then, if that means that Jacob was unmarried between 1834 the birth of his last child with Bridget and his marriage to Sarah Offer (Crane) in 1858 but was with Sarah as indicated by the birth of children or whether there is another Sarah (Pritchett) in between.
Maybe find Bridget's death as perhaps he wasn't free to marry until 1858.
Thanks for that info - you may have cracked it!
Pheno
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As the mother of Hannah and Emily is shown in the register as Sarah Pritchett, without any suggestion that she and Derek are not married (there is a baptism on the same page of the register as Hannah written in the same hand, which names both parents and records the child as a bastard ) I would think that this Sarah's middle name is Pritchett. However, 1851 says she was born in Blagdon, and I can't see a likely baptism.
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So could this be a different Sarah then to Sarah Offer née Crane?
It must be actually as Louise Offer is 29 in 1871 so born about 1842 but Jacob Derrick was having children Hannah & Emily in 1842 & 1844 with Sarah Pritchett. Louise Offer must be the child of Sarah Offer née Crane and presumably her husband unless Jacob was fathering children with two different Sarahs.
This is very confusing.
Pheno
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Hi I have followed Louisa Offer back from 1871 census b Portishead, this in 1841 is the family:-
William Offer 45
Sarah 38
Hannah 10
Thomas 9
Joseph 7
Jane 2
Louisa 4 weeks
Census ref HO107/956/ 8/8 / 8
Baptism 6th June 1841 Portishead
Louisa Offer born 4th May 1841 Father William occ Labourer Mother Sarah
Baptism 17th February 1839 Portishead Jane Offer born 24th January 1839 Father William Mother Sarah
Birth registration Jane Offer March qtr 1839 Bedminster v11 page 79 mmn CRANE
Keyboard86
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Hi again, as you state the last baptism you can find is the James 1834, what of the Daniel Derrick 14th May 1837 Kingston Seymour Father Jacob Mother Bridget?
William in 1841 b 1836 baptism?
Keyboard86
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Thanks Keyboard & Galium.
It did all start to come clear yesterday evening and I did find those baptisms to Jacob and Bridget Derrick and even Hannah in 1842 and Mary in 1844.
I cannot find an appropriate Bridget Derrick death though between 1844 and 1851 - at least not in the right vicinity and don't really want to purchase pdf's so will leave hanging for the mo.
Sarah Offer (née Crane) is still having children with her husband William Offer until 1844 and he died Bedminster Q3 1846.
Assuming that it was Bridget still being alive that prevented them from marrying until 1858 then they must have separated presumably as Jacob and Bridget are not together in 1851.
Anyway, have cleared the wood from the trees with your help.
Pheno
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Having said that had become clear - it hasn't.
The births of William Derrick 1840 and Hannah 1842 according to the gro have the mmn as Carpenter i.e. Bridget Carpenter who married Jacob Derrick in Feb 1823.
However in the 1841 census Jacob is living with Sarah Derrick with William age 1 also.
Bit of a strange family set up if he is living with Sarah Offer as his wife (although I know relationships aren't given in 1841) but still having children with his wife Bridget in 1842!
Pheno
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Am still struggling with this! To recap the evidence I have is:
4/2/1823 Jacob Derrick (minor) marries Bridget Carpenter Blagdon Somerset
1841:(HO107; Piece: 956; Book: 7; ED: 8; Folio: 26; Page: 3) Jacob Derrick b.c. 1806 in Somerset with his family including Sarah Derrick b.c. 1811 and one year old William for whom GRO says mmn Carpenter. An 1811 birth for Sarah Derrick makes her a bit young to be mother to the older Derrick children and besides gro states mmn of all recorded children to be Carpenter
1851: (HO107; Piece: 1946; Folio: 514; Page: 1) Jacob Derrick with wife Sarah and some children
15/7/1858 Jacob Derrick wdr marries Sarah Offer widw née Crane Portishead
1851: (HO107: Piece : 1946; Folio:529; Page11) Sarah Offer née Crane b.c. 1805 living Portishead family includes daughter Louisa Offer
Q3 1846 William Offer, husband of Sarah Offer née Crane dies
1841: (HO107 Piece 956 Folio 8 Page 8) Sarah Offer b.c. 1803 living with husband William and newborn daughter Lousia.**
Louisa Offer is important as although the daughter of William and Sarah Offer she appears as stepdaughter to Jacob Derrick in 1861, tying in with her mother's marriage to Jacob in 1858.
In summary, Bridget Carpenter marries Jacob Derrick in 1823 and they continue to have children up to 1844 but it is not Bridget living with Jacob on the 1841 census.
Sarah Crane marries William Offer in Bristol, Glos on 31/7/1825 and has children with him until his death in 1846. They are together in the 1841 census and she is alone and a widow in the 1851 census.
So my questions are these:
Who is the Sarah with Jacob Derrick in 1841 & 1851 who presumably had maiden name Carpenter? She appears to be about 10 years older than Bridget.
Was Bridget known as Sarah? but what about the age discrepancy
When and where did Bridget die? perhaps before registration began in 1837 and did Jacob then hook up with a Sarah Carpenter prior to marrying Sarah Offer née Crane in 1858.
If anybody can help in answering these questions I would be most grateful. I feel as if the answers are there if only I could discern the wood from the trees!
Thanks, Pheno
** The 1841 for Sarah Offer is Folio 8 Page 8 but it seems to be converting the second 8 into a symbol for some reason!
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Death registered in Bedminster district March Q 1857 of Sarah Pritchard Derrick, aged 56.
This would suggest a birth year c1801.
Bridget's parents, John and Sarah, don't seem to have baptised any other children at Blagdon apart from Bridget in 1801. I can't see a likely Carpenter ~ Pritchett/Pritchard marriage in Somerset around the late 1700s/early 1800s.
I am tempted to think that perhaps there has been a little confusion surrounding Bridget's name, and that maybe she decided that she would be called Sarah Bridget. I notice that neither she nor Jacob signed their names upon their marriage, so if the parish clerk/s who later recorded her name interpreted what was said to them as Pritchett/Pritchard, there was nobody to correct that.
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Yes thanks Galium. I have concluded that this was one and the same person, christened Bridget, became known as Sarah Bridget which on some occasions - baptisms and death - was recorded as Sarah Pritchett/Pritchard. Assuming she was illiterate as she did not sign her name would probably mean that this would not have been noticed and corrected.
Thanks for your help.
Pheno