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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Dexter 18 on Friday 13 April 18 21:26 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I am hoping you guys can help me fill in a gap in these peoples lives.
My grandfathers brother married Agnes Morrissey (b 1913) and it is her family I am
trying to trace backwards. In 1911 census Andrew Morrissey and Lilian (née Doyle)
were living in Avoca sq.Kingstown with 9 children . In 1901 the 2nd line is blank
(Maybe Lilian is in hospital having baby Lilian? ).Going back further I cant find their
marriage but the same Andrew did marry Dora West in 1888 and I can find 2 of the
older children born to them. No death for Dora or marriage for Lilian ,any ideas ??
Robbie. Sorry my attachments are too large .
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Start with the census links
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Kingstown_No__1/Avoca_Square/98987/
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Digges_Street_Upper/1342885/
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Start with the census links
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Kingstown_No__1/Avoca_Square/98987/
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Digges_Street_Upper/1342885/
Certainly helps if Links are posted to what has been found!
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So they are 15 years married in 1911, 7 children, 7 alive and 9 listed...
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The 2 eldest from 1st Marriage...
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Marriage to Dora 1888
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10767/5926880.pdf
How do you know Lilian's name is Doyle?
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Ah Doyle is on Agnes' birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01423/1584253.pdf
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Mary born 1890 is Dora's
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02443/1908862.pdf
and Jane Ann 1892
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02348/1877914.pdf
Anne Jane on her baptism
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633455#page/61/mode/1up
John Joseph 1894
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633455#page/68/mode/1up
Andrew Joseph 1896
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633455#page/76/mode/1up
On the Anne Jane baptism the priest started to write Cla, on this one it's Dora Clarke
Dora Catherine 1899
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633455#page/87/mode/1up
Missing Mabel (she is the same age as Mabel Scudder from the 1901 Census)
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Dora died in 1905
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05579/4567260.pdf
Lilian born c 1900
Sarah Born c 1903
Albert born c 1905
Need to find them to see who their mother is.
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Lilians in Rathdown
Josephine was born Oct 1908 but not registered until Feb 1909
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01626/1651010.pdf
Ellen 1911
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01531/1620707.pdf
Agnes 1913 posted earlier
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The 1901 Census has a Norah but I think this is Sarah, but that would make Lilian and Sarah's ages mixed up in 1911.
I also can't get the idea out of my head that Lillian Doyle is the same person as Lillian Scudder/McGuire
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Thanks Hallmark and Sinnan
Sorry I can’t figure out how to add links! I too was curious about Lilian Scudder (McGuire) the visitor
in 1901. She married a soldier George in 1896, but is it a coincidence? Robbie.
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Dora born 1866 to Patrick and MaryAnne née Clarke.
What is R.D.L. Where Dora died ? Maybe there was no marriage to Lilian then!
Robbie
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Richmond District Lunatic Asylum.
http://archiseek.com/2016/1854-richmond-district-lunatic-asylum-dublin/
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There would be a rationale for no marriage of Andrew Morrissey and Lillie McGuire Scudder if Lillie's husband George was still alive, have you pursued this?
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A few too many coincidences isn't there.
There isn't a child baptised to Dora of an age to be Mabel, yet Andrew has a daughter Mabel the same age a Mabel Scudder.
Three missing birth records between Dora's last child and her death.
Lilian Scudder and Lilian Morrisey have the same first name.
Lilian Morrisey claims to be married the same length of time as Lilian Scudder
The family moved to an new area.
Births are registered again after Dora's death.
I'd like to see what happened to George and see what Lilian McGuire/Scudder's mother's maiden name was, also where is Dora in 1901.
Is Dora here?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Richmond_Asylum_and_Grangegorman_Annex_Asylum/1335940/
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Mabel/Mary at Terenure House 1897
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02129/1809193.pdf
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George Scudder ?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5068218
marriage same regiment
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10508/5827408.pdf
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Sarah married Patrick Massey in 1931
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1931/09025/5266038.pdf
Mother Lilian died a widow 1949 aged 74
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1949/04552/4201317.pdf
Albert married Mary Daly 1925
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1925/09135/5303931.pdf
Looks like Andrew died 1933
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1933/04854/4310254.pdf
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There was a George Scudder who signed up for the Royal West Kent Regiment (Reg. No. 4316) in November 1894, his record says that he was 18 years and 3 months old and he was born in the parish of Chislehurst near the town of Bromley in Kent.
He was 'home' from when he signed up until 25 November 1896, then from the next day he was in India and Malta, until 'home' again from 14 December 1902 to 5 April 1904, in Malta from 6 April 1904 to 24 October 1906, then 'home' again from 25 October 1906 to 29 November 1906 (the end of his service).
Next of kin was father John at 8 Caleb Cottages, Foots Cray in Kent, however this was scored out and replaced with 'Wife 6 Camden Court Dublin' - that is all it says.
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Sounds good, there is only one George Scudder marriage in Ireland and it was the 7th Nov 1896 and the father matches.
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So the possible scenario is that daughter Mary (Mabel?) was conceived August 1896, then George and Lillie married 3 months later, then a couple of weeks after that George was called away on service and wasn't back for 6 years...
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Thanks everybody ,this is all very interesting . It looks like George went away, Lilian moved in with
Andrew and poor Dora was in the asylum . Agnes married Patrick Maher on the same day as her sister Josephine in 1937 .Patrick is my grandfathers brother. Thank you all for your input.
Robbie
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As you said 'it looks like', we can't prove it.
Finding baptisms for Lilian, Sarah and Albert might prove the case if the priest knew.
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I have been also doing research on the Morrissey family, my grandmother was Ellen Christina Morrissey. Daughter of Andrew and Lillian, looks like Lillian Scudder raised Dora West children, but i cant find a death cert for Dora or a Marriage cert for Lillian either. The last cert I can find is the daughter Dora born in 1899 in the combe hospital and mother is Dora West. But on the 1911 census it states 15 years marriage between Lillian and Andrew? Their (DORA and ANDREW) son Joseph was is WW1 and died in 1915.
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Dora's baptism 1899 possibly suggests that she married in St Joseph's ,Glasgow in 1930s
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633455#page/87/mode/1up
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It’s says Dora Clarke mother? On the 1899 baptism of Dora. Same address but different surname.