RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Tickettyboo on Sunday 15 April 18 06:51 BST (UK)
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Attached image is a clip from Mountjoy Prison Register 1923. The man was on bail for non payment of wife's maintenance arrears. The other records I have place them in Dublin City (North).
The image is blurred but I can make most of it out but am struggling with the address in the Next of Kin column.
I can make out Wife, Margaret 3 ? Place, Bally? ?
I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
Thanks
Boo
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Maybe the last word was Ballybough :-\
Kay
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Maybe the last word was Ballybough :-\
Thanks for taking the time to look, it could well be Ballybough (and that's way better than my first glance interpretation of Ballybongle!)
I can't decide if the character after 3 is a 2 or a capital letter, the following character seems to be lower case and its a very short word maybe only 5 characters. So far I am trying to make something out of
3 (2/capital), *, (l?), *, *, Place.
I think its going to end up on the long list of things I may never know :-)
Boo
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I wondered if after 3 it was 2 as well but discounted this as the first letter of the place would start with a capital and other letters didn't look like capitals.
I wonder if the first letter was F or T :-\
Kay
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Pity you've blown it up so much as to make everything fuzzy
,
,
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Pity you've blown it up so much as to make everything fuzzy
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I didn't enlarge it, that is the actual image size as I downloaded it from FindMyPast, all I did was to take a screen clip.
As I said in the original post, the 'image' is blurred.
Boo
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Pity you didn't Zoom out before you did screenshot
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Do you want to give a name? Perhaps looking at the record might help re letter formation comparison. :)
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I apologise if I didn't do it correctly, I am not a graphics expert.
The best I can do is reproduce the image as supplied - just as it is served up from the site, in the hope that anyone who is willing to view it and offer an opinion will zoom in/out to suit their particular screen size/resolution. Just as they would do with an image from FindMyPast.
Boo
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Do you want to give a name? Perhaps looking at the record might help re letter formation comparison. :)
The man's name was Joseph Boyne, born 1888 in Dublin. The record is dated 1923, Mountjoy Prison Registers. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lwk/
Looking at the F in the Hair and Complexion columns, I think Kay99 may well be right about the character after the 3.
Boo
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It’s even worse when I do it ;)
I tried to make it read Tulip Place but I think I have imagined that.
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It’s even worse when I do it ;)
I tried to make it read Tulip Place but I think I have imagined that.
Tulip added to the list of possible place names to google for, thanks for looking :-)
Boo
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It’s even worse when I do it ;)
I tried to make it read Tulip Place but I think I have imagined that.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/ gets you Street names in 1911
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/ gets you Street names in 1911
Thank you, will look and see if any get on the possibles list.
Boo
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It’s even worse when I do it ;)
I tried to make it read Tulip Place but I think I have imagined that.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/ gets you Street names in 1911
I don’t know the area at all but from browsing thought it would be Clontarf West area :-\ not that I can see anything there though. :(
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It’s even worse when I do it ;)
I tried to make it read Tulip Place but I think I have imagined that.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/ gets you Street names in 1911
I don’t know the area at all but from browsing thought it would be Clontarf West area :-\ not that I can see anything there though. :(
Coming out from city you go through Ballybough until you get to Ballybough Bridge,,,, then you go into Clontarf West
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I'm wondering if it was one of the lanes and alleyways that didn't make it for mention on maps and in street directories, I could see nothing for it in the 1918 PO directory or in the immediate area in an early 20thC OS map (links below):
http://irishalmanacs.blogspot.co.uk/
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,716998,735932,12,9
BTW, a search of contemporary newspapers for a placename in Ballybough ending in 'Place' didn't produce any hits that would 'fit' with what is written in the image either.
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https://www.townlands.ie/dublin/
In the electoral divisions section of that page, I can see Ballybough A and B. Clicking on those gives a map with the area marked, and checking the streets against the Mountjoy list from 1911 shows that certainly in that database they are classed as Mountjoy.
Boo
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Thanks for the links and the time you spent on my behalf.
I think you are probably right, and it was just too small to appear on maps etc.
I am further forward than I was though, at least I now know the area was Ballybough.
Thanks to everyone for their time and help.
Boo
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It is a place within the catchment area for Ballybough Post Office as it is a postal address...
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If i have this right it looks like Foster Place,Charleville Ave
Marriage of
Joseph Boyne to Margaret English 1911
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09958/5620507.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/St__Mary_s_Terrace__Harbour_Place/100883/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Brunswick_Street__North/54409/
Note fathers name Mathew English who died 1949 at 3 Foster Place
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1949/04541/4197626.pdf
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https://cottageology.com/dublin-3-ballybough-part-iii-ballybough-road-to-north-strand-road/
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We live and learn. I live about 200 metres from there and just realised I have been up that street many times without 'seeing' that little lane.
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oooh! You beauty!
That ticks ALL the boxes :-)
I 'have' that marriage record but not yet added to my tree files/pages and haven't yet looked into Margaret's parents.
Thank you! I really appreciate the lengths you have gone to in order to help.
Boo
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If i have this right it looks like Foster Place,Charleville Ave...
Oh well done Dathai, that's a great piece of sleuthing, I had discounted Foster Place as it didn't look like it, as always, it's easier to see once you know that is has to be...
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https://cottageology.com/dublin-3-ballybough-part-iii-ballybough-road-to-north-strand-road/
Super! I am SO impressed with your ability to find what I have obviously missed :-)
Boo
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Matthew and Margaret Black 1891
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10668/5887498.pdf
Margaret 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02305/1864338.pdf
Bridget 1896
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02184/1826653.pdf
living with grandmother 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Greek_Street/1279773/
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https://cottageology.com/dublin-3-ballybough-part-iii-ballybough-road-to-north-strand-road/
Super! I am SO impressed with your ability to find what I have obviously missed :-)
Boo
You had the record?
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https://cottageology.com/dublin-3-ballybough-part-iii-ballybough-road-to-north-strand-road/
Super! I am SO impressed with your ability to find what I have obviously missed :-)
Boo
You had the record?
Not sure which record you mean.
Yes, I had the record of the prison register, but couldn't read the address for Margaret, I have a fair few records for her, but none with anything like this address. I didn't have her Dad's death record which shows his address as a match for what I couldn't read and I didn't have the photo of the cottages in Foster Place.
Boo
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Thanks, have filed those away for when I get time to update what I have for Joseph and then can make a start at sorting out what I have for Margaret and add that.
Takes me a while, but I'll get there in the end :-)
Boo
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Matthew birth 1869 ?
465
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03408/2249786.pdf
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Thanks dathai, that is great news :)
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Possible death's for Matthew English's father Thomas in Boston,Kildare 1886
95
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06249/4789281.pdf
a son Thomas Joseph born 1883 with grandmother Bridget Ryan as informant
105
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02722/1844073.pdf
Bridget Ryan died 1891 with Bridget English as informant
35
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06062/4728308.pdf
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goodness! thank you dathai.
That was really kind of you, but please don't spend any more time on it, you've already done so much to help.
I have spent the last few months on a 'fishing' exercise for the Boyne family of Dublin. I had a William Boyne, born 1878, Dublin who married in Liverpool in 1899. All I knew about his family was from his marriage certificate which said he was a cattle dealer and his Dad was also William Boyne, a cattle dealer.
In 1901 William jnr and his wife were recorded in Liverpool and there was a visitor called Joseph Boyne, brother to William who was listed as being 12 and born in Dublin.
Now that parish records and civil registers are available online I have spent hours looking for possible records for both a William and a Joseph and found what seemed the most likely family so have been following them through.
I now have 12 siblings for him fairly comprehensively documented and also have his parents marriage records.
I was very aware that I may well be merrily documenting the wrong family but plodded on, branching out to siblings marriages, offspring etc etc in the hope I could find something that would either confirm or deny that these people could be definitely linked to 'my' William Boyne (well actually my husband's family, not mine)
and yesterday you may have heard a whoop of glee that resembled a sonic boom. :-)
I found his father's burial on the Glasnevin site. I took a big breath and opted for the 'extended' results plus images at 10 euros.
Best 10 euros I have ever spent :-)
I got a whole list of burials in the same plot, all the same family, most of whom I knew about but another couple of little ones born and died too soon that I wasn't aware of.
But the best part was that when the mother died in 1905, the person who arranged the burial was William Boyne of 14 Derby Street, Stanley, Liverpool, Lancashire, England !!
That little snippet means I have found and documented the correct family.
I may well be back with requests for further ideas/help with William Boyne jnr's parents who are proving elusive prior to their marriage, but for now I have a lot of sorting and typing to do to add these people to my tree site.
Thanks again for your help
Boo
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Just in case you have'nt found it
Mary age 48 born Co Monaghan
Mary age 16 born Dublin
Marion age 15 born Dublin
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003789818/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Wood_Lane/1339455/
Marion married Thomas Tighe 1905
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10153/5694324.pdf
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Thanks dathai, your interest is much appreciated.
Yes, that 1901 census return is damaged but the forenames are just readable if you squint a bit. The ages don't 'quite' match for the girls but I thought it likely as the other person linked to that address on the Form B matches wth her son Francis, his wife and baby (their FormA also damaged but partly readable).
I do have Marion's marriage, birth and death of her only child and her death in 1907 (her widower remarried in 1913)
Mary snr's reported ages on various records seem to be arbitary to say the least. Full age, in 1866 when she married, 48 in 1901 on that census, 50 in 1904 when admitted to the workhouse hospital, 50 in 1905 when again admitted to the hospital and died there and, miraculously, 46 two days later when the workhouse registered her death. I feel that the 'full age' in 1866 would be nearest (if not quite accurate) to the truth as if she had been 46 when she died that would mean she was married at the age of 7 and was 8 when she had her first child:-)
The documents that I have for her are here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lww/
Her surname on childrens birth/death registrations is sometimes O'Kelly, sometimes Kelly.
Her parents were, according to the parish marriage record, Bartholomew Canning O'Kelly (a dealer according to the civil cert) and his wife Mary and a Kate Canning/Cannon O'Kelly was both a godmother and the registrant for a couple of the childrens births so may have been a sister or sister in law.EDIT : She seems to have been Mary's sister, Catherine Cannon Kelly (a minor) married John Murphy 12 Oct 1873, St Paul Arran Quay, church record says Father Bartholomew Canon Kelly, deceased
So far I am failing to find a baptism for Mary to try to find her actual year of birth.
The only two children I haven't yet sussed properly are Elizabeth Christina (born 1873, no records found so far after her birth registration) and Mary Esther (born 1883, no records found so far after the 1901 census).
I'll keep plodding on with it, something may turn up!
Boo
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I do have Marion's marriage, birth and death of her only child and her death in 1907 (her widower remarried in 1913)
and I was wrong about him remarrying in 1913, that was much more likely to have been Thomas Tighe Senr, rather than the son who had married Marion.
Though there is another 'possible' marriage that could be Thomas Tighe Jnr in 1919. I'll need to try to check that one out.
one step forward and 3 back :-)
Boo