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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: summer days on Sunday 15 April 18 23:50 BST (UK)
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Hi Can anyone help find where Ann Witton was born, and where her mum and Dad came from?
Ann Witton was born abt 1832 a census reads Westminster.
Ann Witton Married Charles Ashley in 1853 he died 1854
Ann Ashley then Married John Thomas Gearing in 1856 he died in 1870
Ann Gearing then married James Thackerrey in 1877.
I think Ann sisters were
Mary Witton married to John Thompson in 1849 ( I've just changed this to John where I wrote the name Charles in Error.
Sarah Witton married to Robert Purdy in 1846
then there brother was
Charles William Witton, he married 3 times, i think I've found two.
he married
Susan Norman in 1860
Mary Ann Fleming in 1870
On the wedding certificates they lived at Church Street, where was this?
There dad William Witton is a tailor. One certificate reads Charles William, not William.
The name Purdy signs certificates as if William Witton had died?.
On Google there is a story of David William Witton b 1788? D 1856 a Merchant. of a firm D W Witton and co.
On the post it reads Church Street. Is this part of my Wittons family?
Any help in finding Ann Witton, and her Dad would be Great, and where did they come from?
Thank you xx
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Have you found any of the family in the 1851 census? And can you please tell us the dates of birth of any of the others
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I'm a bit rusty with research after a long layoff, but I couldn't find Ann Witton in any census 1851 to 1871.
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Hi, There is a Thomas Gearing with wife Ann in 1861, Gravel Lane, St Saviour Southwark. Ann is 41 which would make her born around 1820.
ADDED. the same couple in the 1871, says Ann born Liverpool.
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Just to help other researchers, here is Ann and John Thomas GEARING in the 1861 on Waterloo Rd, Lambeth
John Gearing 31 Clerkenwell, Middlesex (clerk)
Anne Gearing 37 Westminster, Middlesex
Frances Gearing 1 Holborn, Middlesex
Elizabeth Gearing 0 Lambeth, Surrey
Kate Witton Grandmother 60 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire
RG09/348 / 104 pg 14
Modified to add:
And in the 1871 at St Giles
Anne Gearing 34 Westminster, Middlesex (widowed, mangler)
Emily Jane Gearing 8 Lambeth, Surrey
Ann T Gearing 5 St Giles, Middlesex
Mary A Gearing 2 St Giles, Middlesex
Maria C Gearing 0 St Giles, Middlesex
GBC/1871/0345/0149
(though I can't find birth registrations for the youngest 3 girls?)
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This looks like daughter Elizabeth in the 1871 at Kilburn, Willesden
William Whinrey Gearing 61 St Anne Soho, Middlesex
Elizabeth Gearing 55 Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire
Maria Gearing Daughter 28 St Giles In The Fields, Middlesex
Francis E Gearing Daughter 22 St Giles In The Fields, Middlesex
Mary S Gearing Daughter 15 St Giles In The Fields, Middlesex
Elizabeth A Gearing Granddaughter 10 Waterloo Rd Lambeth
Catherine M Gearing Granddaughter 6 St Giles, Middlesex
GBC/1871/1329/0075
And possibly in 1881 at Thornhill Sq, Islington
George Samuel Ager 30 St Lukes, Middlesex, England
George Samuel Ager Son 6 Islington, Middlesex, England
Alice Maria Ager Daughter 5 Islington, Middlesex, England
Rose Emiline Ager Daughter 1 Islington, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Ann Gearing Niece 20
RG11/237/14 pg 22
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I just want to check that on all Ann's marriage certificates say her father was William WITTON, tailor?
Also, what evidence do you have that Mary, Sarah and Charles were her siblings? - just to help find them on the 1841 and 1851 census. ;)
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Mary's marriage to John (not Charles) THOMPSON in 1849 John is a carpenter
Mary's father William WITTON, Tailor, Deceased
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1623/31280_195097-00494?pid=4867512&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1623%26h%3D4867512%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DJwh42%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Jwh42&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Sarah to Robert PARDY 1846. Sarah's father Charles William WITTON, tailor. (doesn't say deceased)
Robert is a Bricklayer
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1623/31280_198066-00441?pid=7601620&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1623%26h%3D7601620%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DJwh22%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Jwh22&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Everyone in these two is of full age.
Robert PARDY is a witness at Mary's marriage
Charles William WITTON to Mary Ann FLEMING 1870. Charles' father William WITTON, tailor deceased. Charles is a carpenter and a widower
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1623/31280_195106-00403?pid=2417249&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1623%26h%3D2417249%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DJwh27%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Jwh27&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Charles William WITTON to Susan NORMAN 1860 he's a widower so there is a previous marriage. He's an Ostler at this marriage. Father William WITTON, Tailor. Looks like Robert and Sarah PURDY are the witnesses of this marriage
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1623/31280_198072-00021?pid=3507466&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1623%26h%3D3507466%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DJwh26%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Jwh26&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
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There is a bit of a mystery here.
in 1871
Charles William WITTON (indexed as Wilton) b abt 1825. A Carpenter born Leamington
with wife Mary Ann b abt 1836 and a son James b abt 1854 also a carpenter. Born in Bombay, India. (I wasn't expecting that!)
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/7619/LNDRG10_653_657-0206?pid=2303272&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3Duki1871%26h%3D2303272%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D1623&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true
But in 1881
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/7572/LNDRG11_586_589-0512?pid=20629792&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3Duki1881%26h%3D20629792%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D7619&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true
Charles says he was born Westminster
is a carpenter. Mary Ann with him also
James born Bombay India age 24, (so same family as the 1871 one) and Winifred age 23 born St Giles Middlesex,
there are 2 four year olds. Another Winifred and Catherine M both Dau, and both born Lambeth. BUT their mother's maiden name is GLAVIN not FLEMING. they are actually grand daughters. Marraige of Frederick James WITTON to Winifred GLAVIN 1875.
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1623/31280_198289-00367?pid=3658737&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1623%26h%3D3658737%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DJwh27%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Jwh27&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Also in house is 8 year old grandson James HARRISON born Lambeth
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/6598/LNDRG12_388_390-0508?pid=20452077&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3Duki1891%26h%3D20452077%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D1623&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true
1891 Charles (born Westminster so he's being consistent now) and Mary Ann are together. Charles is a Bricklayer now. James & Winifred are in the same household with their now larger family
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This might be Charles' first marriage???
11 Mar 1844, Bycullah, Bombay, India
Charles Witton, Single, 19
Sarah Anne Turnash
Father: William Witton
FHL Film Number: 523843
and is this their first son?
Baptism 28 Dec 1845, Bombay, Bombay, India
Name: Charles William Witten
Birth Date: 14 Dec 1845
Baptism Date: 28 Dec 1845
Father: Charles William Witten
Mother: Sarah
Reference ID: v 19 p 306
FHL Film Number: 523844
Moderator comment: edited for content. Please do not copy and paste transcriptions from commercial sites. You must transcribe what you see in the images.
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Just to help other researchers, here is Ann and John Thomas GEARING in the 1861 on Waterloo Rd, Lambeth
John Gearing 31 Clerkenwell, Middlesex (clerk)
Anne Gearing 37 Westminster, Middlesex
Frances Gearing 1 Holborn, Middlesex
Elizabeth Gearing 0 Lambeth, Surrey
Kate Witton Grandmother 60 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire
RG09/348 / 104 pg 14
Given the above Kate born Newton Pagnell Bucks........
A William Witton married 24 Feb 1816 to Catherine MacBright in Newton Pagnell Buckinghamshire.
Jo :)
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Thankyou everyone for trying to find Ann and Dad William Witton.
The census above are my tree.
The 1861 census Ann's children were
Emily Jane Gearing B 1863
Ann Theresa B 1866
Maria Charlotte B 1870
John Ann's husband died is 1870.
There is a Jessie on a census that is also Ann's child, and Jessie is under the surname of Gearing and Thackerrey where she took on her stepdads name. I've found Jessies birth from everyone on here Helping me. I'd been looking for Jessie for 2 years.
The 1871 one census above has Ann and John Gearing children staying with John's dad William Whinrey Gearing . William Whinrey son John died in 1870, as Ann was a widow untill she married James Thackerrey..
A lot of ancestry tree's show a Catherine '' Kitty'' Truelove married a James Macbright then William Witton from Newport Pagnell, but these dates don't add up on my tree?
I feel that Catherine Truelove and James Macbright had a child that then married William Witton, if this is him?
I found these
Ann mackbright b 27 oct 1803 The Great Meeting Independent,Newport Pagnell,Buckingham,England Dad James mum Catherine.
Ann Macbright baptized 25 June 1811 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire, England. dad John mum Catherine
Was Ann B 1803 changed to Catherine and married William Witton?
Also look up a census for 1827 of
Sarah Purdy b 1827 married to Robert Purdy.
Sarah's mum read Catherine Hope
children Ann Hope
and William Hope
is Ann and William Hope Ann and William Witton? and where does the surname Hope fit in.
Catherine Hope reads she is from Pagnell.
Any help sorting this out would be great, and I still can't find where Ann and William where born?
Jenny
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Still no closer to Ann and William but here’s what Charles was doing in India (from the FIBIS website)
Entry from Registers of Bombay Army European Soldiers 1840-1850 L-Z
Charles Witton Private 1st European Regt. -attested in London 4 March 1841 for an unlimited period
Transferred 29 September 1847 to the Artillery
IOR Reference L/MIL/12/112
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Probably should have read this previous thread before
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776201.0
However, I am a bit confused as according to reply #8 on that thread the marriage of Ann GEARING to James THACKERREY 24 July 1877 has her father as John WITTON. Do you have Ann's previous marriage details - is her father John or William?
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Mary Witton married to Charles Thompson in 1849
Sarah Witton married to Robert Purdy in 1846
Can I just point out that Mary WITTON married John THOMPSON at St Mary, Lambeth in 1849.
I can't see a birth registration for Robert, the son of Robert and Sarah PURD(A)Y born c1848?
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Thank you for the Charles India records, I only have UK Subs, not world wide so this is good.I'll add this to my tree.
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Hi Mckha489 i'm trying to add what you've found, and i've got confused.
Charles William Witton married Mary Ann Fleming and had James on the census you've found.
Frederick James married Winifred Glavin, so should James be Frederick James, or is there two children one James and one frederick?
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James is James in the two censuses I found him in, but he is Frederick James on his marriage cert. I put the links in the post.
I haven’t found his baptism in India. I THINK that because his father was in the military the birth cert should be available in English records but I can’t remeber off the top of my head just where.
Oh, and James wasn’t the son of Mary Ann Fleming! He was born about 1854 in Bombay, therefore the son of Sarah Turnash. Mary Ann Fleming was the third wife Charles married in 1870.
Added - I’ve just found the actual image for the marriage Charles to Sarah Anne FURNISH. Turnash is a transcription error
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Here’s his baptism
Baptism 19 May 1854, Karachi
James Frederick Witton
Birth date 14 Apr 1854
Father: Charles William Witton
Mother: Sarah Ann
On the image it says Charles is a gunner of the first or Leslie’s troop of horse artillery
Moderator comment: edited for content. Please do not copy and paste transcriptions from commercial sites. You must transcribe what you see in the images.
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Thank you so much.
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On this feed someone found for me that Charles Witton married Sarah Anne Turnash in Bycullah Bombay India.
I only have UK subs.
Where can i go to look up a FHL Film number. Not only on this but where does everyone find what is on a film number?. Is there a site you can join?.
Also would there be a marriage certificate for this wedding I can order? if so where would I order it?
I wondered that because I can't find sister Ann Witton and there dad William, maybe they can from India?
On Ancestry one person has marriage but they changed the Turnash to Furnash?
Jenny
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FHL numbers refer to films on FamilySearch. familysearch.org. You have to register, but it is free.
Sometimes the films are digitised on Family Search and you can look at them directly, othertimes you have to go to a Family History (Latter Day Saints) Centre or an affiliate (usually a genealogy group) to look at them.
This from one of my earlier posts to you
Added - I’ve just found the actual image for the marriage Charles to Sarah Anne FURNISH. Turnash is a transcription error
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I've just checked. On Family Search the film has restricted access - you have to go to a family history centre. But the Image I found is on Findmypast.com if you don't have membership to that, you can buy 1 month, or do a pay as you go, sometimes they have a special deal on of a free day or days to lure you in!
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there is this William Marriage in India which might be a wild goose or might not.....
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=bl%2fbind%2f005137016%2f00137&parentid=bl%2fbind%2fm%2f39736%2f1
Marriage date 10 May 1843, Aligarh, Bengal Presidency
William Witton, Widower, full age, Corporal Horse Arty.
Priscilla Best, Widow, full age
Groom's father's: William Witton
Archive reference N-1-65
Folio number 223
Moderator comment: edited for content. Please do not copy and paste transcriptions from commercial sites. You must transcribe what you see in the images.
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going back to your first post about David William WITTON
This was on the FIBIS site. Was his wife Jane?
Number of Bond 2392
Authority of Court 21 Mar 1820
Year 1820
Business Names David Wm. Witton
Surnames Witton
Full Names David Wm. Witton
Description To export fire arms
Presidency Bengal & Madras
Description of Instrument Bond
Date 20 Mar 1820
Sureties David Wm. Witton, Fenchurch Street, Gun Maker.
IOR Reference Z/O/1/8
Source Year 1820
but I see in his will which is on Ancestry he names a brother Thomas Wilson WITTON as one of his executors. and in the will a son William, a son David, a sister Mary Ann WITTON and another sister Sarah WITTON a sister in law Ann something WITTON widow of his late brother James. there are other names. I don't see anything to connect him to 'your' William - not closely anyway. Its a very long will.
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Mckha489 Thank you i've just seen this and i'm trying to understand it all.
I'll come back to you
Jenny
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Hi whar does this stand for please? FIBIS site
Jenny
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https://www.fibis.org/
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Thank you, I've never seen half these sites.
Jenny
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but I see in his will which is on Ancestry he names a brother Thomas Wilson WITTON as one of his executors. and in the will a son William, a son David, a sister Mary Ann WITTON and another sister Sarah WITTON a sister in law Ann something WITTON widow of his late brother James. there are other names. I don't see anything to connect him to 'your' William - not closely anyway. Its a very long will.
What year, and where would I find this will.
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He’d died in 1856 as you yourself said,
If you do a search in Ancestry for David William WITTON with a death at that date, the will (prerogative court of Canterbury) comes up.
Print it out, number the lines, then write down your transcript on alternate lines numbered to match so you can see where you are going.
Warning - it is the clerks copy so written in that devilish to read script. I find it’s best to skim through picking up words you can identify as you go along which attune your eye somewhat, then go back, and repeat.....
The first paragraph is always the bit about the last will, where they live (Richmond) and recommending their souls to god, then naming the executors
The name of the other executor is George Frederick BAWTREE
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Thank you, I think i've tried to read so many, and I have found them hard to read, and work out who is who.
I'll look it up again.
Jenny
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Mckha489 Thank you for you help, i've add all the people you put down on the will onto the people I have on my tree. Ann ? Witton married to James Witton in the will was Dorothy Ann Burgess, and her name must have been written the wrong was around in the will.
I have these on my tree because I thought my William Witton was David William, because he had children Ann and William.
I've since found this wasn't my William, but I think my William is linked to this family in some way, so I haven't cut My William from it until I find my William Witton.
I do feel My Witton is part of David Willam, but I can't make the link yet.
Links to both are.
On my William Witton they're linked by Pudry signing his children's wedding Certificates.
not mine?
On David William B 1781 married to Ann Lloyd they have William born abt 1836 married to Sarah Downs. They have John born 1869 married to Florence M Wadley. They have Geoffrey Witton married to Vera M Purdy b abt 1896, I can't find anything on her, but I wonder if she is linked to me Purdy family?
Also
On my William Witton
Charles William Witton abt 1826 married Mary Ann Fleming, they had Frederick James Witton(Written James on things) he married Winifred Glavin. They had Catherine Witton B 1877 she married Charles Crawshaw. they had Mary Ann Ellen Crawshaw that married Thomas Albert Lambert from Lambeth.
Not mine
David William Witton b 1781 dad was Rev Joseph Witton B 1757 Married to Mary Lander.
David William has a brother Joseph William B 1779 Married to Mary Lambert. Could this Lambert be linked to mine?.
On mine Charles William, Sarah and Mary Witton all lived at Church Street on there Weddings.
Not Mine
David William Witton.
On Google there is a post David William Witton 1788-1856 Sue Young Histories where she put he lived at Church Street. Is this the same Church Street?
Rootchat found my my Great Great after I was looking for over two years, now I'm Hoping it will find Willam Witton a Tailor.
Jenny x
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going back to your first post about David William WITTON
This was on the FIBIS site. Was his wife Jane?
Number of Bond 2392
Authority of Court 21 Mar 1820
Year 1820
Business Names David Wm. Witton
Surnames Witton
Full Names David Wm. Witton
Description To export fire arms
Presidency Bengal & Madras
Description of Instrument Bond
Date 20 Mar 1820
Sureties David Wm. Witton, Fenchurch Street, Gun Maker.
IOR Reference Z/O/1/8
Source Year 1820
but I see in his will which is on Ancestry he names a brother Thomas Wilson WITTON as one of his executors. and in the will a son William, a son David, a sister Mary Ann WITTON and another sister Sarah WITTON a sister in law Ann something WITTON widow of his late brother James. there are other names. I don't see anything to connect him to 'your' William - not closely anyway. Its a very long will.
here's one of the guns his company made
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lzy/
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David William Witton's parents were Joseph and Mary (probably nee Lander). Joseph died 1810 - his will is on ancestry. Has lots of children and mentions wife Sarah (2nd wife probably nee Goodman)
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LizzieL Thank you, this is where I thought David William Witton was my William because of all the names in the will, but I was wrong.
I've now kept my William attached to them knowing its wrong until I find something on mine to say otherwise.
Down the line on the David William Witton a Geoffrey Witton married a Vera M Purdy in 1922, i can't find a birth on her, but i'm going to order there wedding to see if i can link her back up to the Purdy's that signed Ann etc weddings.