RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: cristeen on Monday 16 April 18 11:37 BST (UK)
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I would love to hear others' opinions on the possible reasons for the seemingly long gap between death, burial and registration of a lady who died from childbirth complications. Here are my known facts
Jane Taylor gave birth to her second child, a daughter, the baptism record for infant Jane states she was born 25th August 1864, baptised 3rd September, daughter of Jane & Joseph Taylor (Runswick, mariner). Next is a burial record for infant Jane on 6th September 1864 aged 1 month. I have a funeral/death card for Jane Taylor which reads 'In memory of Jane Taylor, who died on the 3rd September 1864, aged 26 years. Janes' parish burial record states she was buried on 24th September 1864, aged 26 years. Interestingly the number 26 looks like it has been altered from 1 and the word month has been crossed out. This scenario has long puzzled me. I wondered if the 3 week delay before burial may have been because of an inquest and searched newspapers, archives etc toto no avail. I recently ordered the death certificate in the hope of clarification and am now even more puzzled. The death cert states Jane died on 5th September 1864, of child bed, 1 week, uncertified. The informant was her husband Joseph, in attendance, but the date of registration is 30th September 1864.
So, my main queries are, why the long delay between death and burial & how come she was buried nearly a week before the death was registered (My understanding is that a burial could not take place without a death certificate or coroners notice)
Any clarifications, explanations or suggestions are very welcome.
Christine :)
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If a anyone carried out a burial for which the Certificate ( that the Death has been duly registered) had not been made and delivered, as the 1836 and 1874 acts required, either by the Registrar or Coroner, they had to give notice to the Registrar within Seven Days, if they did not they were liable to a fine not exceeding ten Pounds.
Stan
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See section XXVII of the 1836 Act http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3/
Stan
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Stanmapstone, thank you for the link which clarifies the law at the time. I thought that was the case.
So if the recorded dates are correct and the burial did take place before the registration the local vicar was risking a large fine.
These events took place in a tiny coastal village and it's neighbour, both fairly isolated and I guess quite a tight knit community. I wonder if the vicar took pity on Joseph and bent the rules for him. If that were the case it does not explain the three week delay before burial. The weather was fine that September so I am also wondering how they stored the body to minimise deterioration
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Just as a matter of interest, do you also have the death certificate for baby Jane?
A thought that perhaps the vicar altered the wrong entry - some of the entries in the "age" column, on the two pages concerned, would appear to have been written at a different time to the names, dates, addresses etc.
Only a thought :-\
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Hi Bumblebee, I haven't got baby Jane's death cert. I was hoping adult Jane's cert would clarify the matter. I did also wonder if the two had been muddled somehow. However, if the burials have been muddled there is still the question of how adult Jane came to be buried either 6 days or 24 days before her death registration. I will fork out for baby Jane's death cert to see if that will clarify. I did wonder if Joseph simply couldn't afford another burial/ registration cost within a short time period.
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If a anyone carried out a burial for which the Certificate ( that the Death has been duly registered) had not been made and delivered, as the 1836 and 1874 acts required, either by the Registrar or Coroner, they had to give notice to the Registrar within Seven Days, if they did not they were liable to a fine not exceeding ten Pounds.
Stan
If Jane was buried on 24th and the death registered on 30th - the vicar/husband have just managed to register within the seven days, thus avoiding a fine. Could the burial date have been altered to arrive at this result - perhaps with advice from the registrar?
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I just know that I would HAVE to be nosy enough to purchase the other death certificate. ::)
As for timing - well - you say that Joseph was a Mariner, was he at sea and couldn't get to register the death/s :-\ Who knows?
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I just know that I would HAVE to be nosy enough to purchase the other death certificate. ::)
As for timing - well - you say that Joseph was a Mariner, was he at sea and couldn't get to register the death/s :-\ Who knows?
I had resisted until 5 minutes ago! I hope I get the correct cert as both mother and daughter have the same reference! Yes, maybe Joseph was at sea and unable to deal with the 'paperwork'. There was an extended family, practically everyone in the village were related somehow, I assumed another relative would have registered Jane's death on his behalf if he was at sea. It would however explain a delayed funeral I suppose
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If Jane was buried on 24th and the death registered on 30th - the vicar/husband have just managed to register within the seven days, thus avoiding a fine. Could the burial date have been altered to arrive at this result - perhaps with advice from the registrar?
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Westward, potentially a cover up then :)
I hope to have attached adult Jane's parish burial record
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Please let us know when it arrives :)
Yes, the page number is the same as it is for 4 (5 including the other Jane) other burials in the Hinderwell parish records - all in September 1864.
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Yes the vicar/clerk has written the age as 1 month then changed it to the mother's age. So the baby's burial must presumably be recorded on a nearby page.
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Here are the two entries, consecutive pages in the parish records:
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Thanks for posting both Bumblebee, saved me a job! The age on the later burial has clearly been altered, maybe the vicar wrote up each month's entries at the end of the month :)
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I just thought that it was interesting that he wrote up some parts of the register at a different time :)
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Westward, potentially a cover up then :)
I hope to have attached adult Jane's parish burial record
Just saving everyone a little money. In my part of the world births had to be registered within 30 days. Back in the day I have some ancestors whose birth dates were altered to comply with this requirement :) You also have to put date of marriage on birth certificates. One large family had one child before the marriage, so they registered her with her younger sister's date of birth. All very confusing.
Edit: Thanks for the baptism record - interesting to see the change of detail from child to mother
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Just for the sake of completeness, here are the other documents I have, the baptism record for baby Jane, the funeral card for adult Jane and her death cert
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Couldn't get them all on the same post!
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And the death cert
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Oh, and I have visited the graveyard and if there ever were headstones for these burials, they haven't survived :(
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I wouldn't have expected a headstone - much more important things to spend the money on - like family.
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Couldn't get them all on the same post!
That is an amazing funeral card for the family to have retained. Thank you for sharing.
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Surely they must have been mixed up
If she died 3rd/5th September of childbed fever of 1 week then the baby was born the end of August - this fits in with the baptism which states born 25th August
If the baby is then buried on 6th September she's not anywhere near a month old (whereas if she was buried 24th September she would be almost a month old at her death)
Mother and baby both dying within a certain period of birth is one of the few reasons why they can share a casket (twins under a certain age is another)
I wonder if it could even be something along the lines of the mother was buried 6th September and then they put the baby in with her and REBURIED on the 24th
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That is an amazing funeral card for the family to have retained. Thank you for sharing.
I count myself lucky to have such things :)
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Surely they must have been mixed up
If she died 3rd/5th September of childbed fever of 1 week then the baby was born the end of August - this fits in with the baptism which states born 25th August
If the baby is then buried on 6th September she's not anywhere near a month old (whereas if she was buried 24th September she would be almost a month old at her death)
Mother and baby both dying within a certain period of birth is one of the few reasons why they can share a casket (twins under a certain age is another)
I wonder if it could even be something along the lines of the mother was buried 6th September and then they put the baby in with her and REBURIED on the 24th
Thanks for your thoughts iolaus. It is certainly looking like that may have happened, I will post when I get baby Jane's death cert :)
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So as suspected, the two Janes had their burial dates muddled :)
Infant Jane died on 23rd September and was registered on 30th
Thank you all for the suggestions & prompting to buy the death certs!