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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Westmeath => Topic started by: Glinny on Tuesday 17 April 18 03:39 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me find a birth record for Ann Maher please.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10128/5684945.pdf
Thank you
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Have you got John Dane and Ann in the 1901 or 1911 Census to see what county they were born in, and other useful information like her mother's first name etc.
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Ballynagotr/Clonyhague/1784631/
looks like them.
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I wonder if this is the difficulty
Anne is with parent in 1911 as single :-\
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Westmeath/Ballynagore/Clonyhague/887284/
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This looks like John and Anne Deane in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Bray_No__2/Sidmonton_Terrace/892124/
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1901 and 1911 children don’t match up. ??? Anne and Elizabeth could be away working in 1901 though but Rose’s age certainly doesn’t fit.
1901
John 24
Joseph 17
Mary 20
Rose 9
Bridget 7
James
1911
Anne 32
Elizabeth 31
Rose 28
James 11
Patrick 8
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This might be Rose’s marriage in 1911 to Thomas Nooney aged 20 yrs - would fit with 1901 census
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09939/5613852.pdf
1911 census Thomas and Rosie Nooney with Bridget Maher
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Westmeath/Mullingar_South_Urban/Belview_Road/886102/
Both Rose and Anne Maher have Lillie Maher as a witness to their marriage. perhaps she is Elizabeth ???
I have found some siblings births but not Anne’s though. :-\
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Ancestry baptism indexes is showing
Anne Marshall baptised 20 December 1881 Castletown-Geoghegan, Westmeath
Parents Joseph Marshall and Bridget Baker
This would seem to be Anne but wrong name transcribed or entered on the register. Unfortunately, the registers do not go to December 1881 unless the pages are out of order.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0913
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its there alright left hand page
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635098#page/31/mode/1up
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its there alright left hand page
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635098#page/31/mode/1up
thanks dathai :)
Now the index shows December 1881 but the register seems to show differently - it is December 1880 at the top of the page.
It looks as though it is February - what do you think?
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Yes looks like 20th Feb 1881
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The baptisms shown above and below Anne are registered - Bridget Comasky; Bernard Crosby and Joseph Toole.
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Ancestry baptism indexes is showing
Anne Marshall baptised 20 December 1881 Castletown-Geoghegan, Westmeath
Parents Joseph Marshall and Bridget Baker
This would seem to be Anne but wrong name transcribed or entered on the register. Unfortunately, the registers do not go to December 1881 unless the pages are out of order.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0913
The 1901 census return for Joseph MAHER and his family at 29 Clonthage given earlier matches to
Joseph MAHER m Bridget BAKER Sep 11 1885
Children:
John bap Jan 10 1877 - on 1901 census
Mary bap Feb 02 1879 - on 1901 census
Anne bap Feb 20 1881
Joseph bap Apr 8 1883 m Bridget MOONEY Jun 02 1913 - on 1901 census
Elizabeth bap Aug 15 1886
Thomas bap Mar 03 1889; d. Dec 12 1889
Rose (Ann) bap Dec 25 1890 - on 1901 census
Bridget bap Apr 22 1894 - on 1901 census
James b Jul 12 1900 - on 1901 census
Although the age and spelling is out - this could be Anne in 1901 LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Kinnegad/Kinnegad/1781707/)
and a possibility for Elizabeth / Lillie LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Kilbeggan/Main_Street/1785492/)
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This looks like John and Anne Deane in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Bray_No__2/Sidmonton_Terrace/892124/
Thank you, That's definitely them. Bridget J was my grandmother
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Thanks for trying to help me. I'm lost from reply #7 onwards. I've been working on the Maher side for quiet a while now and can't work it out. The experts on this site normally lead me down the right path, but if it has you guys stumped then I may just have to put the 'Mahers' to one side for a while. Thanks again for your time and effort.
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Oh dear and I thought we had done very well but we are not experts :)
In summary:
There are transcriptions and links to your family 1901 and 1911 indexes.
Some of the ages don’t match for some reason.
Some births can be found - Irish Genealogy site but not your Anne.
There is however a baptism for Anne as Anne Marshall which seems to be Anne - February 1881. This is presumably an error.
Other children whose baptisms were performed at similar times to Anne’s have been registered though, so this would indicate that the civil records are not missing and perhaps Anne was not registered.
I wondered if the witness, Lillie Maher ( to the two marriages, Anne’s and Rose’s ) is Elizabeth - a pet name.
Myluck has linked to likely persons for Elizabeth and Anne who are missing from the family in 1901.
The 1911 family is the puzzling one as it has Anne when she is married and elsewhere and also Rose’s age is wrong but this could be just an error on Bridget’s part. She didn’t complete the form herself and perhaps just told the enumerator those names :-\
Is this summary any clearer?
There is a baptism record for Anne but not a civil birth. (Not found anyway).
Regards
Heywood
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Oh yes you all have done extremely well, and I’m very grateful (sorry if I sounded ungrateful) I turn to this site when I’m really stuck because you are all experts in my eyes. Thank you for making things clearer for me, I’ll go through all the replies and keep working on it. Thanks again everyone
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Thanks for trying to help me. I'm lost from reply #7 onwards. I've been working on the Maher side for quiet a while now and can't work it out. The experts on this site normally lead me down the right path, but if it has you guys stumped then I may just have to put the 'Mahers' to one side for a while. Thanks again for your time and effort.
I don't think anyone is stumped!
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Sorry Hallmark, maybe the word ‘stumped’ is the wrong one! ‘Puzzled’ would be a better word to use maybe. 🙂
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Just to confirm what heywood has said - and try and unstump!
based on the marriage in your original request I searched for a person named Anne MAHER from Clonyhage with a father named Joseph.
As there is only one Joseph MAHER in the area on the 1901 census I looked at his family with his wife Bridget BAKER.
I found at least nine children to a couple of these or similar names
One baptism for an Anne in 1881 and is transcribed as MARSHALL with a mother named BAKER and all other information similar. A check of the original baptism could confirm if this is a mis-transcription and should be Ann MAHER. There is no matching civil registration for this birth that I can see.
The 1901 census for this family shows all the children found except Elizabeth and Anne and the deceased Thomas
Joseph MAHER died in 1904 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05610/4577517.pdf)
The 1911 census for this family shows widow Bridget with similar children and names however there is also a 1911 census return for Anne MAHER-DEANE with a husband and children causing confusion.
I would suggest that when you look at the 1911 census for Bridget MAHER and her family she gives her mark as she cannot read (and probably also could not write). If you look at the signature of the enumerator, James Keane, and all the writing on the page, it looks as if he may have completed the full form. This is supposition but suppose Anne was present on the day he called and he completed the form incorrectly showing her as single? It took a number of days/weeks for the enumerators to collect the forms. There were many errors where people misunderstood questions and gave incorrect information.
The Enumerator's Abstract Form was completed on April 21 1911 in Westmeath LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003552522/)
and on April 27th 1911 in Bray LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003636476/)
To check this out for proof - I would start with the church record of the baptism of the Anne MARSHALL/MAHER to see which name is really recorded and also to see if the record is endorsed with her marriage details.
I would also look for the church record of her marriage to see if both parents' names were given there as was often the case.
These are not on-line - you would have to contact the church.
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Also note that on the birth record of Bridget Josephine DEANE
her place of birth is Clonyhage on June 07 1909 and
her father is shown as John DEANE of Bray!
LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01600/1643065.pdf)
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Yes the enumerators wrote down the information they were given...
I remember them coming to the door when I was young and enumerator was accompanied by a policeman! My dad answered questions at doorway.
I remember next Census when my parents were out and I answered them.... I even gave my dad's second name, which my dad didn't like m doing when he asked me later!
At that time I gave the ages that my mum and dad told me they were..... problem is I never knew their correct ages until years later!!
Often wondered how the information I gave would have differed from what my dad would have given that night!! ;D ;D
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One of my OH's relatives had us stumped for many years where he stated how married years he was married in 1911 as the combined total for all his marriages. Not just the then current one!
Just a point if you are ever searching for policemen in the census returns which are recorded as just initials on the Barracks' returns - open a few census returns from the area as they signed their names on these forms!
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Thanks again everyone. You're all brilliant in my eyes, always willing to help. Thank you