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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: mezentia on Tuesday 17 April 18 15:28 BST (UK)
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I have a Gordon Kinlock Williams, son of Edward Thomas Williams and Barbara Jane Kinlock, born on the 22 February 1885 in Victoria, and baptised on 18 May at Moorooduc. He then appears in the electoral roll for 1949-1954 in Croydon East at at 95 Milton Street, Ashfield, NSW, and the from 1958 to 1977 he's at 20 Paton Street, Woy Woy, although Kinlock is spelled Kinloch.
So, how to explain this death index entry:
Name: Gordon Rknlook Williams
Birth Year: abt 1885
Age: 9
Death Place: Pt Nepean, Victoria
Father's name: Edwd Thos
Mother's name: Barbara Kinlook
Registration Year: 1894
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 14568
There's clearly a typo in a couple of the names, but the other details seem to match. Was there possibly a second child of the same name?
Puzzled :-\
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8166/1986 WILLIAMS GORDON KINLOCK parents JAMES NEPEAN and ILMA VAUGHAN
WILLIAMS Gordon Kimlock Death notice 7-4-1986 Death 61 late of Eastwood Sydney Morning Herald 9-4-1986
Notice only says died suddenly, privately cremated.
Jamjar
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Marriage NSW:
12435/1919 WILLIAMS James N to GIMBERT Ilma CANTERBURY
Jamjar
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Mystery solved:
1224/1971 WILLIAMS James Nepean parents EDWARD THOMAS and BARBARA SYDNEY
Jamjar
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Hmm..
Starts to make sense - James Nepean was Gordon's brother. I've only got one child for James and Ilma, a Kevin James Nepean Williams, so I've missed their son Gordon somewhere along the line, who would likely be named after James' brother. It must be him that I've got the later records for. Gordon the younger had a son, too, James Stanley Williams, so I've some re-arranging to do :)
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Just to confuse matters, there's another Gordon Kinlock Williams, born and died in 1911, to Albert Edward Williams and his wife Madelaine Blanche, nee Young!
I checked the NSW BMDs for James' son Gordon but couldn't find him :( presumably I need to wait until next year, or the year after that, ...
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25916/1958 WILLIAMS KEVIN JAMES N parents JAMES NEPEAN and ILMA SYDNEY
WILLIAMS Kevin James Nepean Death notice 12-10-1958 Death 37 late of Beverly Hills Sydney Morning Herald 14-10-1958
Jamjar
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NSW births only go up to April 2018.
Jamjar
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21409/1968 WILLIAMS Albert Edward parents EDWARD THOMAS and BARBARA JANE NEWTOWN
WILLIAMS Albert Edward Death notice 26-5-1968 Death 81 late of Marrickville Sydney Morning Herald 28-5-1968
If this is his notice it says his wife is Violet, page 1: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=lL5f5cZgq8MC&dat=19680528&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
So, brother of James Nepean.
WILLIAMS Madeline Blanche Death notice 15-5-1978 Death late of Marrickville Sydney Morning Herald 16-5-1978
Scroll to page 18: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=lL5f5cZgq8MC&dat=19780516&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Jamjar
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At Woronora Cemetery:
Albert Edward Williams 26-5-1968
Burial General Plaque Lawn - Lawn 4 - 0290
http://www.heavenaddress.com/ALBERT-WILLIAMS/1410488/
Madeline Blanche Williams 15-5-1978
Burial General Plaque Lawn - Lawn 4 - 0290
Photo: http://www.heavenaddress.com/MADELINE-WILLIAMS/1410560/
Jamjar
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Deaths:
11575/1921 WILLIAMS Edna parents ALBERT E and MADELINE B MARRICKVILLE
42921/1971 ENGLERT Muriel Nita parents ALBERT EDWARD and MADELINE BLANCHE NEWTOWN
Muriel Nite Englert 12-1-1/1971
Burial General Plaque Lawn - Lawn 4 - 0663
http://www.heavenaddress.com/MURIEL-ENGLERT/1391640/
Her husband:
Edmund Sydney Englert 26-6-2007 29-6-2007
Burial General Plaque Lawn - Lawn 4 - 0663
Jamjar
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The daughter who was born in 1884:
10441/1962 BROWN Edith Mary parents Edward Thomas and Barbara Jane MARRICKVILLE
BROWN Edith Mary Death notice 4-6-1962 Death 78 formerly of Condobolin Sydney Morning Herald 5-6-1962
Funeral: BROWN.—The Relatives and Friends of the late EDITH MARY BROWN (formerly of Condobolln, N.S.W.) are invited to attend her funeral to leave St. Clement's Church, Marrickville, after service commencing at 1 o'clock this (Tuesday) Afternoon for the Woronora Crematorium, arriving at 2 o'clock. By re-Quest no flowers.
Possible marriage: 622/1905 BROWN Robert to WILLIAMS Edith M ALBURY
Children:
686/1906 BROWN Muriel L parents ROBERT and EDITH M ALBURY
15832/1908 BROWN Roberta C parents ROBERT and EDITH M MARRICKVILLE
23468/1912 BROWN Donald E parents ROBERT and EDITH M WAVERLEY
Marriages:
1904/1924 DA COSTA David - COSTA David Da - DACOSTA to BROWN Muriel L PETERSHAM
1210/1934 TWIBY Ronald W to BROWN Roberta C ROCKDALE
Death:
8474/1949 TWIBY Roberts (sic) Caroline parents ROBERT BOLIVIA and EDITH MARY HURSTVILLE
TWIBY Roberta Caroline Death notice 1-5-1949 Death 41 late of Hurstville NSW Sydney Morning Herald 2-5-1949
Death and funeral notices: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article18113598
TWIBY Roberta Clare (Robyn) Death notice 14-6-1957 Death 21 late of Hurstville SMH 15-6-1957
TWIBY Ronald Wilfred Death notice 26-3-1989 Death 83 Sydney Morning Herald 28-3-1989
Woronora:
Roberta Caroline Twiby 1-5-1949 Ashes
Aa - Rose Garden 3 - 0056
Ronald Wilfred Twiby 26/03/1989
Kk - Rose Garden 19 - 0131
Roberta Clare Twiby 14-6-1957 Ashes
Aa - Rose Garden 3 - 0054
25583/1978 BROWN Donald Edward parents ROBERT BOLIVIA and EDITH MARY
DE COSTA Muriel Lavinia Death notice 26-9-1996 Death 94 formerly of Rozelle, Balmain and Epping Sydney Morning Herald 28-9-1996
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar
Thanks so much for all the information you have sent, it’s hard to keep up 😀 I’ve not used google news before, it’s something I clearly need to investigate more. Robert Bolivia Brown is someone of particular interest as it’s proving difficult to trace him back, but I suspect he has roots back in Scotland or Northern Ireland based on some DNA results I’ve seen.
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Death: 1864/1943 BROWN Robert Bolivia parents SAMUEL HENRY and HONORA CONDOBOLIN
Obit, 1st column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article214440192
Condobolin Cemetery: Brown Robert Bolivia 1877? 21 Jan 1943 65 Condobolin NSW RC
Births to Samuel and Honora:
18267/1872 BROWN LOUISA H parents SAMUEL and HONORA TENTERFIELD
19443/1873 BROWN SAMUEL HENRY parents SAMUEL and HONORA TENTERFIELD
Death: 18282/1958 BROWN Samuel Henry parents SAMUEL HENRY and HONORA CAMPSIE
Notice: BROWN Samuel Henry Death notice 16-9-1958 Death 85 late of Bankstown Sydney Morning Herald 17-9-1958
20960/1876 BROWN JOHN THOMAS parents SAMUEL and HONORA TENTERFIELD
20961/1876 BROWN BRIDGET parents SAMUEL and HONORA TENTERFIELD
22898/1878 BROWN ROBERT B parents SAMUEL and HONORA TENTERFIELD
Marriage: 3752/1871 BROWN SAMUEL to HANLON HONORA WELLINGROVE
Deaths:
10740/1880 BROWN Honora father MARTIN DIED GLEN INNES WELLINGROVE
Obit, last column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article192877175
13923/1889 BROWN Samuel parents SAMUEL and LOUISA TENTERFIELD
It very much appears that the origins of the ‘Bolivia’ in Roberts name is due to Robert’s father, Samuel, living in Bolivia, NSW and owning the Bolivia Hotel. Samuel’s Obit in 1889 says he’d been here for around 50 years, having been born in Bedfordshire. 3rd column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article18977629
Jamjar
Added: Robert B’ son also at Condo Cemetery:
Brown Donald Edward 1912? 6 Sep 1978 66 h/Dulcie Martha Condobolin NSW Ang4 B03
Brown (Caie) Dulcie Martha 1909? 10 Aug1978 69 w/Donald Edward Condobolin NSW Ang4 B02
Photo of headstone can be found here: http://austcemindex.com/?cemid=219
Marriage: 24149/1940 BROWN Donald Edward to CAIE Dulcie Martha CHATSWOOD
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Hi Jamjar
Thanks for the newspaper quote for Robert Bolivia Brown's father - I've not seen that before. I knew about the origins of Robert's middle name, but hadn't known about the connection to the Bolivia Hotel. The obit has wrecked my thoughts about Scottish ancestry on that side of the family, but has at least given me a clue about where to find the family before they emmigrated. So, now to find the emmigration details, and work our where in Bedfordshire they came from.
Once again, Rootschat has come up trumps :):):)
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I’m confused. Which family do you think emigrated?
Samuel Brown married Honora Hanlon 1872 in NSW, is it not possible that they both arrived in Australia without their parents?
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar
I sometimes forget that not everyone is as familiar with my tree as I am :-[
I've been researching my son-in-law's family now for a while as he always expressed an interest in his roots. For Christmas, I got him a DNA test with FTDNA (I've had mine done with them well before Ancestry started to test) and got back a quite surprising ethnicity map, and some direct matches with cousins whose names I am familiar with. A couple had also uploaded GEDCOM files, so I've been comparing their trees with mine. That's what has prompted my current bout of research, and led to my initial question posted a few days ago, which I think has now been answered.
However, in your research for my question, you've uncovered some resources I'd not found or thought of, and identified quite a number of people I have already in my tree, one of whom is Robert Bolivia Brown, who is my son-in-law's great grandfather. I've found Robert's parents, but not managed to get any further back, but since we now know that Samuel Brown was born in Bedfordshire, we have another handle on researching that bit of the family, and that's what I was refering to when I talked about finding out about when he came to Oz, and where he started from in Bedfordshire.
As far as Honora Hanlon, I can get no further back with here, other than she appears to have been bourn in Australia c1871 and died before 1905.
Hope that clears the confusion a bit :)
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As far as Honora Hanlon, I can get no further back with here, other than she appears to have been bourn in Australia c1871 and died before 1905.
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Jamjar gave you the NSW BDM index ref numbers for lots of bdm events, including Honora's 1872 marriage to Samuel, and her 1880 death, and a live link to her Obit. NSW law at that time (1872) required her to be at least 12 years of age to marry. Here's the live link Jamjar gave for her Obit.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/192877175
There were passengers surnamed HANLON arriving in New South Wales 1864 on the Morning Star. Two sisters, one aged 27, her name was Honora. http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4798&ship=Morning%20Star page 8.
JM
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Hi majm
Yes, I've been given lots of information, which I have beavering away following up, and in the process, discovering the Brown family in the UK, not in Bedfordshire as the obituary for Samuel Brown suggests, or Huntingdon as stated on his death registration, but Cambridgeshire.
I had already discovered the passenger lists with Honora and Anastasia Hanlon on them:
1864 NSW Immigration record: Honora and Anastasia Hanlon.
The transcript of the records is as follows:
Certificate Numbers: 1913, 1914
Deposit Number: 1307
Name of Depositor: Redmond Hanlon
Date of deposit: January 19 (1864)
Despription of person for whose benefit the remittance is made:
Christian name and surname at full length: Honora Hanlon, Anastasia Hanlon
Age: 19, 17
Whether husband or wife resident in the colony:
Trade or calling: Servant, Servant
Whether living in Great Britain or Ireland: Gowring, Co Kilkenny, Ireland
Name and Address of some person of note
to whom reference can be made respecting
the Immigrants: Parish Priest, "Gowring"
Proportion to be applied to the passage: £4/0/0 £4/0/0
Proportion to be applied towards Outfit:
Total: £4/0/0 £4/0/0
Irish: 2
Remarks: "Morning Star"
Honora and Anastasia are both listed on the passenger manifest of the Morning Star, arriving on 3 September 1864, although the ages do not tally: Honora is listed as being 27, and Anastasia as 19. Both are listed as Laundresses from Garren, Kilkenny, both are Roman Catholic, and both can read and write.
Anastasia possibly never married. There is a burial recorded for an Anastasia Hanlon, who died on 4 July 1888 aged 44 and is buried at the Rookwood Catholic Cemetery, Rookwood, Auburn City, NSW, Plot: Section M1, Row F, Plot 452.
From Honora's death registration I know that her father's name was Martin, but that's the limit of the information. Her sponsor, if the immigration records refer to her, was a Redmond Hanlon, but I have no further information about him.
I don't yet have a full transcription for Honora's marriage to Samuel, so I suppose that's the next step. A transcript for Anastasia's death might also be illuminating.
Clearly, in Honora's case, there's still a lot to do discover her roots!
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Anastasia possibly never married. There is a burial recorded for an Anastasia Hanlon, who died on 4 July 1888 aged 44 and is buried at the Rookwood Catholic Cemetery, Rookwood, Auburn City, NSW, Plot: Section M1, Row F, Plot 452.
From Honora's death registration I know that her father's name was Martin, but that's the limit of the information. Her sponsor, if the immigration records refer to her, was a Redmond Hanlon, but I have no further information about him.
I don't yet have a full transcription for Honora's marriage to Samuel, so I suppose that's the next step. A transcript for Anastasia's death might also be illuminating.
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Some thoughts :)
Anastasia
That 1888 death for Anastasia HANLON is noted in the newspapers which are free to search at Trove. She was a married woman, her husband was John HANLON. Here is the funeral announcement. Notice the funeral moves from Miler’s Point. That is a locality within the City of Sydney. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13690457 SMH 4 July 1888
The NSW BDM online index shows the death as occurring in Sydney and being registered in the NSW BDM's Sydney district. (so quite a small geographical area) Here is the reference no. #1182. The index has her death as 3 July 1888.
Trove is free to search : https://trove.nla.gov.au/
NSW BDM online index is free to search http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/tracing-your-family-tree.aspx Official transcriptions are recognised by family history groups as a good alternative to the expensive certified copies. NSW BDM info about their official transcription agents is at that link and also at Rchat’s resources links.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
and
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
Honora
You may find there’s elusive blanks on the NSW summary of the 1880 marriage of Samuel and Honora. Here is a now lengthy thread I did up to help other RChatters overcome those blanks. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0
Honora’s death cert (official transcription) should give you info about “how long in the colonies”, her children, her marriage, as well as info about her origins. Informant driven info of course, so it is dependent on the informant’s own knowledge.
JM