RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: cindym19721 on Thursday 19 April 18 13:36 BST (UK)
-
I'm wondering if there is any way to discover proof that an uncle of mine (who died as an infant) was actually brought over from County Cork to London in the 1940's? Other than finding a death record in Surrey, I've found nothing.
I once saw a photo of him and know the probable cause of death but wondered if I can access any sort of medical/hospital history. The attached screenshots are literally everything I have.
-
First thing is to get copies of those birth/death certificates to confirm that this is the same boy.
Have you checked the 1939 Register ?
-
First thing is to get copies of those birth/death certificates to confirm that this is the same boy.
Have you checked the 1939 Register ?
I know that the family came over from Fermoy, because my mother was born in Surrey in 1940, so that part is true. Do I really need the certs?
I haven't checked the 1939 register, is it available via ancestry?
-
Adding to what's just been said...
For a child of that age, the death certificate ought to give the name of his father. The mother too, if she was the one who registered the death. It would also confirm the cause of death.
The 1939 Register is at FindMyPast - it doesn't give places of birth, but it has exact dates, and if any of the women married or remarried over about the next 40(?) years, their new surnames are usually also shown. Quite a few points of reference, then, to check if this could be the right one.
(There is a likely-looking entry in the 1939 Register; anyone can see brief details without paying, but you need to pay to see the lot. FindMyPast T&Cs don't allow us to do look-ups or provide information here in such a way that others can avoid paying.)
-
Adding to what's just been said...
For a child of that age, the death certificate ought to give the name of his father. The mother too, if she was the one who registered the death. It would also confirm the cause of death.
The 1939 Register is at FindMyPast - it doesn't give places of birth, but it has exact dates, and if any of the women married or remarried over about the next 40(?) years, their new surnames are usually also shown. Quite a few points of reference, then, to check if this could be the right one.
(There is a likely-looking entry in the 1939 Register; anyone can see brief details without paying, but you need to pay to see the lot. FindMyPast T&Cs don't allow us to do look-ups or provide information here in such a way that others can avoid paying.)
Thank you for taking a quick look, I guess I'll have to pay to get my hands on it ;)
-
Your local library probably has access to FindMyPast, you can check on their web page
-
A Margaret Hefferan married a Patrick Wheeler in Fermoy district on 23/10/1936. Their marriage certificate is free to view at www.irishgenealogy.ie . Patrick was a widower. Respective fathers being Charles Wheeler and John Hefferan.
-
A Margaret Hefferan married a Patrick Wheeler in Fermoy district on 23/10/1936. Their marriage certificate is free ti view at www.irishgenealogy.ie .
That's my Nan and Grandad, it was his 2nd marriage, he died of a massive cerebral haemorrhage in 1949 while cycling home from work. She died in 2004.
-
It looks like there was either a stuff up when writing their name for the register, or, and this is more likely.... the stuff up with the spelling of my Nan's maiden name has occurred at some point when she has told people what it was. I was under the impression that she was a HEFFERNAN, seems that she may have been a HEFFERAN, small difference but when it comes to family trees, that's pretty huge! I also have the incorrect info for her parents, because I had never actually seen their registry entry and took what my mother told me as gospel! Ughhhh
Thanks all for your replies, I'll get to fixing the tree now
-
Hefferan is certainly what is clearly written on her marriage record, but not unusual for names to 'change' slightly over the years (especially if said by an Irish person but written, for example, by an English person).
Her husband looks to have been born in Kilrush, County Clare on 4/3/1893. His father, Charles George Wheeler, a soldier, had an address at the time of Spike Island, County Cork. Mother was Mary Ann Keane. Certainly, there was a Patrick, with this birth date, living in the Surrey area in the right timescale for your Grandad. Again, the 1893 birth certificate is available free at the site I posted a link for earlier.
-
Hefferan is certainly what is clearly written on her marriage record, but not unusual for names to 'change' slightly over the years.
That's what I thought too, still means fixing the tree I've got though :(
-
You can read about Spike Island here:
https://www.spikeislandcork.ie/discover/fort-mitchel
Patrick and his parents/siblings at 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Corkbeg/Whitegate/1131709/
His brother, Charles, also later lived in England.
-
Thank you!
-
Charles senior, who was English born, seems to have left the army by 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Fermoy_Urban/Chapel_Square/412863/
and some of the younger children were born in England.
-
Charles senior seems to have left the army by 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Fermoy_Urban/Chapel_Square/412863/
Good Catholic family, lots of kids! Don't know how I'd cope with an 18 year age gap!
-
Hefferan is certainly what is clearly written on her marriage record, but not unusual for names to 'change' slightly over the years.
That's what I thought too, still means fixing the tree I've got though :(
Even in Ireland, though, both Heffernan and Hefferan surnames were in use by people, so it could still be either/or.
-
Based only on Fermoy and Margaret stating her father, John, was a painter, this could be her with him and her mum/siblings at 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Fermoy_Urban/William_Street/413651/
Unfortunately, she is only listed as 'full age' on her marriage, but perhaps you know her date/year if birth to see if this is likely.
Note that the spelling is Heffernan.
-
Even in Ireland, though, both Heffernan and Hefferan surnames were in use by people, so it could still be either/or.
Just found my Nan's birth record, her parents are recorded as HEFFERNAN so it looks like you're right. How hard do they want to make it??
-
I once saw a photo of him and know the probable cause of death but wondered if I can access any sort of medical/hospital history. The attached screenshots are literally everything I have.
Without the death cert, you won't know exactly when or where he died.
He might not have been hospitalised?
If he died in a hospital, you might be able to find out if any records survive.
-
There's a possible entry for his burial, 6 Feb 1940, Sutton Cemetery (London Borough of Sutton)
www.deceasedonline.com
https://www.sutton.gov.uk/info/200453/parks_trees_and_open_spaces/1124/sutton_cemetery
You'll need credits to see the full details.
Alternatively contact the cemeteries dept with the date of burial and see if they can help you further.
-
There's a possible entry for his burial, 6 Feb 1940, Sutton Cemetery (London Borough of Sutton)
www.deceasedonline.com
https://www.sutton.gov.uk/info/200453/parks_trees_and_open_spaces/1124/sutton_cemetery
You'll need credits to see the full details.
Alternatively contact the cemeteries dept with the date of burial and see if they can help you further.
Thanks!
I once saw a photo of him and know the probable cause of death but wondered if I can access any sort of medical/hospital history. The attached screenshots are literally everything I have.
Without the death cert, you won't know exactly when or where he died.
He might not have been hospitalised?
If he died in a hospital, you might be able to find out if any records survive.
Thanks, I know from the photo I saw that he had a malformed skull and his brain was protruding through it, may be that this was partially the cause, as you say, seeing the death cert will help. I'll have to get it on pay day!
Don't suppose you would have any idea on how I'd go about finding out if he was actually hospitalised for whatever the cause was? I can't ask any family members as they aren't around any more, and the ones who are don't speak to me
-
Deaths: 1837 –1957 from the GRO are currently £6 for a pdf version of the event.
Surrey History Centre would most probably be your best bet for more informaion
http://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/themes/subjects/disability-history/
http://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/themes/subjects/mental_hospital_records/
http://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Private-Minds-for-Kingston-University-blog.pdf
-
Deaths: 1837 –1957 from the GRO are currently £6 for a pdf version of the event.
Yeah, I'm aware of the pdf event, damn good idea, still need to wait till next week for pay day! Lol