RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Fermanagh => Topic started by: sasarina on Friday 20 April 18 06:00 BST (UK)
-
Hello, I am looking for the parents of Jane Noble, born abt 1832 Enniskillen, Fermanagh, Northern Ireland.
She migrated to Australia on the "David Mciver" arriving in Australia in 1852.
The passenger lists states that her parents John and Martha were deceased.
Jane was COE and could read and write. She married in Australia one year later and lived all her life in Bathurst NSW raising 15 children.
Thanking all.
-
IGP has quite a lot of records transcribed
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/fermanagh/church.htm
-
Hello, I am looking for the parents of Jane Noble, born abt 1832 Enniskillen, Fermanagh, Northern Ireland.
She migrated to Australia on the "David Mciver" arriving in Australia in 1852.
The passenger lists states that her parents John and Martha were deceased.
Jane was COE and could read and write. She married in Australia one year later and lived all her life in Bathurst NSW raising 15 children.
Thanking all.
Hi there,
I think there has been a mis-read of the passenger list for the David McIver. I think it lists Jane Noble's native place as Dublin City and her then age as 20. I counted up six entries from the bottom of the page. I read that Enniskillen is where the two passengers (surname as Nestor) listed immediately above Jane NOBLE were from.
Please see my post on another thread:
Here is a live link to the 1852 passenger list for the David McIver, it is readily and freely available online from the NSW State Archives.
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4790&ship=David%20McIver
Single females include a Mary Doolan (page 9),Jane Noble (page 10)
Single males include a William Doolan and a John Doolan (page 12)
JM
-
There was a Jane Nobel born in Dublin in 1831
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lx6/
but you would need to be able to prove she is the correct Jane.
-
If Dublin is correct then these might be Jane's family-
Jane Noble born 6 Dec.1831, daughter of John & Matilda*, bapt. 19 Dec.1831 St. Peter's (COI) Dublin
Henry Noble born 20 Apr.1835, son of John & Martha*, bapt. 17 May 1835 St. Peter's (COI) Dublin
Also in records of St. Peter's-
Burial: 9 Nov.1837 John Noble, age 26, Mercer's Hospital, St. Kevin's Cemetery
* Martha and Matilda can sometimes be used interchangeably
See: https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
-
Hi, that's really interesting regarding Matilda and Martha being interchangeable I never knew that? Please don't think me stupid but why would she change names? for political reasons? Do you know this site? when it states that the record is not yet imaged, does that mean that I could get a copy of the original emailed to me?
If this is my Jane, how interesting she could have had a brother? it might be worth me pursuing him to try and find a link?
I have just been looking at the history of Mercers Hospital and St Kevins cemetery, both have a very long history.
Thank you so much to everyone, I will have a good look at this information
-
Yes, Martha and Matilda are interchangeable names in the 19th Century documentation I have transcribed for New South Wales records. Sometimes it is simply too difficult to decipher the difference between the two possible spellings. The clerks recording the names sometimes seem to be more interested in scribbling than in record keeping. Many of the records were recorded under difficult circumstances ... queues of passengers may have been standing in line, with clerks perhaps at a table, documentation facing the clerks. The passengers may have been like most of us today, unable to read scribble, particularly when it is 'upside down' ie, facing the clerk and not the passenger. :)
There's many names that are interchangeable, particularly in rural NSW records .... off the top of my head I mention : Emma/Emily, Sally/Sarah Susan/Susannah.
JM
-
Many forenames are interchangeable eg Jean & Jane, Jenny & Janet, Nancy, Agnes & Ann, Sally & Sarah, Mary & May, Peter & Patrick, Sean & John, John & Jack, Edward & Edmund, Henry & Harry, Robin & Robert, Roy & Robert, Kathleen & Catherine. (The famous Scottish poet Robert Burns was never known as Robert to his friends. He was always Robin to them). It’s just something that needs to be taken into account when searching Irish and sometimes Scottish records.
-
Hi, that's really interesting regarding Matilda and Martha being interchangeable I never knew that? Please don't think me stupid but why would she change names? for political reasons? Do you know this site? when it states that the record is not yet imaged, does that mean that I could get a copy of the original emailed to me?
If this is my Jane, how interesting she could have had a brother? it might be worth me pursuing him to try and find a link?
I have just been looking at the history of Mercers Hospital and St Kevins cemetery, both have a very long history.
Thank you so much to everyone, I will have a good look at this information
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
-
Do you know this site? when it states that the record is not yet imaged, does that mean that I could get a copy of the original emailed to me?
The site does not have copies of these parish registers, you can look up the parish here
https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/PARISHREGISTERS.pdf
to see where the register is held. Dublin City starts on page 38.
-
The shipping record in its original form clearly shows place of birth for Jane NOBLE is Dublin City.
David MacIver arrived 19th May 1852
If I am looking at the correct marriage in Australia it was in Sydney.
A Presbyterian marriage at Alexandria, Paddington in 1853. Spouse Joseph LEWIS.
It took place at the beginning of January 1853
Eleanor, one of the children seemingly born to this couple has a second forename HELMORE.
May be a hint towards a family surname somewhere along the line on either maternal or paternal side.
Sue
-
Thanks so much to everyone, much appreciated, no wonder it is so hard for the amateur researcher when you don't even know what name you are looking for, so many possibilities? I think I will stick to researching the Jane Noble born 06/12/1831 at least the dates are correct and would explain the father being deceased when she made the journey to Australia in 1852, yet to find the mothers death, was thinking if she lost her husband in 1837 and possibly had 2 children under 5 y/o life would be pretty tough. If this does turn out to be the parents I am not sure if I am going to like the outcome?
Majm, now knowing that you have transcribed for the NSW Archives maybe you can help me. I have two passenger lists for the "David Mciver" the interesting one ,I think, is from the Agents Immigrants List that was emailed to me by a friend, it states that both parents John and Martha were deceased, and on the left hand side noted against Jane's name is hospital? I don't think this list is available online? and have not yet been able to trace where to get a good copy as the headings are missing from the copy I have, I rang the Immigration archives NSW but they couldn't help.
I do know that the David Mciver was in quarantine for 40 days because of Typhus and 10 died on the voyage and 7 while in quarantine.
Kindest Regards
-
Yes, this news item states cases of fever aboard the David McIver in 1852 and confirms quarantining was ordered by th Governor General.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12935990
I would suggest the note beside Jane NOBLE's indicated she was in the hospital ward of that Quarantine station soon after arrival.
Hers is not he only name on the passenger list with the annotation in the margin.
Sue
PS.
I have not seen that the illness on board was Typhus. Perhaps I have missed it.
There were all sort of diseases described as fever I think.
-
Not all records survive and of those do not all are online so you can't assume anything with the Dublin records found jst yet but there is something else to keep in mind-
Martha Noble bapt. 1852 St. Peter's- parents John (servant) & Mary Noble, 23 Cuffe St.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-45-2-8-006
John Noble (servant, 1 Wexford St., son of John) married (1865 St. Peter's) Mary Nesbitt-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-45-3-7-103
Martha bapt. again 1874 (R.C.)-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=harrington-street_mf_1865-1890_ba_0211
This marriage to John Hare (R.C.) explains the 2nd baptism-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=harrington-street_mf_1865-1912_ma_0170
Mary Jane Noble bapt. 1854 (St. Peter's)
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-45-2-10-006
Harriet Sarah Noble bapt. 1859 (St. Peter's)- parents John (servant) & Mary-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-45-2-14-004
Floraville [Lodge, Eglantine Rd.] as address in baptisms-
Emily bapt. 1864 (St. Peter's)- parents John Noble (coachman) & Mary-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-45-2-15-055
born 1864 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03617/2335239.pdf
Annie Noble bapt. 1866- parents John Noble (servant) & Mary-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-277-2-9-131
Charlotte Noble- parents John (coachman) & Mary (Nesbitt)- born 1869-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03411/2251024.pdf
Hellenor Nora Noble- parents John & Mary (Nesbitt)- born 1871-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPT2-5YZ
-
I know it's just gasping at straws at the moment, but according to the info that I have regarding my Jane she was 20y/o when she arrived in Australia in 1852, making her born abt 1831. and she was COE.
Also shipping document states both parents deceased ( which maybe a porky pie I don't know), but she did marry here in 1853 so that is my strongest lead so far.
Her death certificate dated 1912 states age 80 so I am always around that date.
I forgot to mention that one of the witnesses on her marriage cert. was a Jane Yarker/Yorker who was on the same voyage as my Jane in 1852, so I got to be thinking this information is correct.
Thanking you
-
There is really no obvious reason that Jane would lie regarding her parents being deceased.
This would have no bearing on her Government Assistance, her employment opportunities or anything else really.
The possibilities of others in the NOBLE family presented by aghadowey are interesting.
Jane YARKER was also hospitalised. Her other details can be seen on the digitised ship's passenger list.
Sue
-
Yes all these Noble families, just makes it so difficult, wish they had a less common name. I am still thinking that the Jane listed on the David Mciver is my Jane, especially the connection with Jane Yarker. So I would be assuming that John and Martha/Matilda were deceased by 1852? or maybe Martha did remarry? is why I can't find a death for her, or maybe she put Jane in an orphanage, oh all the possibilities. when you start looking at all the other options.
My head is starting to spin.