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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: nichbuket on Tuesday 24 April 18 23:04 BST (UK)
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Hello,
This is truly a brick wall for my family. I need some advice on where to look for any information on Margaret McConville and Henry Cunningham of Mullartown. They are listed on the 1851 census index of being in Mullartown, but obviously the census was destroyed so I cannot gather anymore info.
I know they have two sons Charles and Henry. Charles was born around 1850 and died around 1917 and their son Henry was born about 1860. I cannot locate evidence of those births in baptisms. There is a possible other Henry Born 1844 in Glasdrummond, Lower Mourne (19 min away) to a Henry Cunningham and M Conville, but I can't see a death for that Henry to know if it's MY Henry and Margaret's son. I'm sure their are other children that I have tried to look for in order to trace them, but no success.
I have looked through census, land records, will records (thanks to a suggestion on a post about charles), parish records and civil records, but I cannot find anything concrete on Henry or Margaret. No marriage and no death that fits. I have looked in Down and the counties around Down.
Any help on where to go to break down this wall would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Nich
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Glassdrumman would be a the nearest church to Mullartown, the other church in the parish is Ballymartin so the baptism may well be correct
I assume you have the census search form
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/details.jsp?id=21517
I think it says Henry is a Mason?
Have you checked the parish records
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0413
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Earlier topic on Charles Henry Cunningham for reference since lots of information was posted there-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=785278.msg6403538#msg6403538
Not sure if you've seem this one yet but a Margaret Cunningham, spinster, age 51, died 1879 at Mullartown- a Francis Cunningham was the informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06532/4882374.pdf
He might be the Francis Cunningham who died in 1884 (age 55) with brother William as informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06318/4811864.pdf
However, there are lots of Cunninghams in Mullartown so it would be very easy to start tracing the wrong family!
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Thank you.
Yes Cwellan, that is the census search I used. If it was filed in 1901, so doesn't that mean one of his parents at least should have been alive then? I was under the impression that the search was to prove one of them was elderly enough for pension.
I went through the registers once, and am now going again to see if I missed them, so far the only one I've come across is the 1844 Henry.
Aghadowey, yes it was my post which inevitably wasn't solved about Charles--we were looking for his birth. But it did offer me the suggestion to look into the wills, which found his brother Henry (d1916). We didn't get anything concrete on Henry and Margaret.
I've seen the Margaret Death, but didn't feel the info was concrete enough (especially with her listed as spinster not widow). There are actually a dew Margaret Cunningham's who I have found dead in Mullartown, but they are either listed as a widow to a man of a different name, to young or spinster....and as you said there are a number of Cunningham's so I don't want to trace the wrong ones. :)
appreciate your help.
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I posted a link to previous topic so that others could see what's already been found.
I've seen the Margaret Death, but didn't feel the info was concrete enough (especially with her listed as spinster not widow). There are actually a dew Margaret Cunningham's who I have found dead in Mullartown, but they are either listed as a widow to a man of a different name, to young or spinster....and as you said there are a number of Cunningham's so I don't want to trace the wrong ones.
I wasn't suggesting that the Margaret who died in 1879 was the wife/widow of Henry Cunningham. On the contrary, she was probably too young to be her (born c1828) but she could have been a daughter or relative so just something to keep in mind.
It is difficult when so many people with the same surname (and often Christian names) are in a townland but I find it usually helps to put them, as much as possible, into family groups- sometimes new information allows you to link them up a bit better at a later date.
... that is the census search I used. If it was filed in 1901, so doesn't that mean one of his parents at least should have been alive then?...
The pension application was made by Charles Cunningham in 1916 and a search was done of the 1851 census based on the details he supplied. Pension age was then 70 and the family were found with an abstract of the 1851 census sent to applicant. Therefore, it's clear that both parents were alive in 1851 (they could have died between 1851 and the start of death registration in 1864) and were living at Mullartown at that time. One other important detail is that father Henry was a mason.
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Aaa. I’m new to Irish genealogy records. I misunderstood the pension file. I thought it meant that his parents were alive to get a pension not Charles himself. Thank you for that clarification. 😊
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It can be confusing when you are starting your research but if you keep track of everything found it might be useful one day.
My great-great-grandmother came from a townland which at one time had 17 families with that surname. A distant cousin in New Zealand started his research by finding a family tree in records office for one of those families. Seventeen families and 16 of them related/almost certainly related. The odd one out was a minister who came from outside the area to the church and of course that was the 'family tree' found. Cousin then passed it on to me and I passed it on to a descendant of that family ;)
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Finished another look through the parish record (marriages 1839-1852 and baptisms 1839-1864) and the only freference to a Henry Cunningham and anything close to Margaret McConville is that 1843 Henry baptism I mentioned.
There are a ton of baptisms with a father Hugh Cunningham but no Henry and wife isn’t Margaret.
They are definitely a catholic family so I’m finding this a might odd.
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Next stage is to search adjoining parishes.
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yes I agree. at this point I have done a double/triple check of the surrounding parishes of Killkeel, Kilbrony, Clunoff, Kilcoo, and Bryansford/Newcastle. Still nada. I'm now going further out, but still nothing.
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Is that your Henry on plots 56 and 59b in Griffith's Valuation of Mullartown? If so, have you looked through the Valuation Revision Books to see if and when the land changed hands?
If it goes to "Reps. Henry Cunningham" that seems to mean he died and his family is handling it. Within a year or so it then goes to the next tenant. There may be a few years' delay after a man's death before it shows up that way on the books. All from my experience anyway.
My first thought was that they left, but if Charles' address in 1916 was still Mullartown, then probably not. But I have seen two men that left and came back, both in Ballintur, between Kilkeel and Rostrevor. One was my grandfather's cousin, and it had me misled for years.
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I have not looked in the valuation revision books and I fact have not heard of them. Where might I find them?
Thanks for the tip.
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Valuation Revision Books:
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/Val12B/Search.aspx
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Thank you!
I was able to find mention of what you mentioned in 1869 ref number VAL/12/B/19/19A image 80. Henry's name is crossed out and "Charles Cunningham" is written in blue below it---I'm thinking this is his son Charles.
So then in theory Henry died between 1860-1869, which I assume could give Margaret ample time to remarry as her son Henry was only 9 at that late time. At least I have a timeline to look for deaths, as looking through for marriages/baptisms has been sadly unhelpful.
Thanks again for the info.
Nich
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The valuation book notes the changes were made in 1877. There is a death for a Henry Cunningham in 1878-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020497/7192765.pdf
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@nichbuket
You're welcome.
In the valuation books, as the last poster points out, look in the right margin for dates,and try to match the color of the ink to the changes in the first column. That tells you when the land changed hands, (or sometimes, in the other columns, when the lessor changed, or the valuation.)
Sometimes they spell Cunningham as Cuningham.
The Henry who died in 1877 was in Tullyframe.
There is one who died in 1874 and one who died in 1876, but for these you have to order the image.
The civil records 1864 to 1922 are here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
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ok so the observation number is the is the date. I thought it had something else to do with the property. Thanks
The problem with the death is it lists him as a bachelor, not married/widowed etc. Thank you for clearing the town name up. Between these, I don't think it's the correct Henry.
I also saw an civil index listing for a Henry died in Kilkeel 1865, which may be too far off from the revision books, but there is no image available to see the details either.
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Bear in mind that death was not the only reason for change being noted in Valuation Book- could also indicate person had moved away. Also, if a son (grandson, nephew, etc.) with the same first and last name took over a holding the change usually wasn't noted in the book.