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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: designhall1 on Friday 27 April 18 14:54 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any info on Richard Hall's (born 1st June 1797 Middlesex, England) parents and prior. They might be John and Mary. Richard is my 4th Grandfather. Thanks.
Daniel
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What is the source for his birthdate please?
And what is the connection with Harriet almost 200 years later - or is there a typo in your dates?
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I see that Harriet Selina Bouffler born 28.11.1796 was baptised 29.01.1797 Finsbury, so it was a typo.
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Married as Harriet Bouffler to Richard Hall at St Giles without Cripplegate, 25.11.1818.
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Sorry birthdate for Harriet Selina is 1796. I am looking for any info on Richards parents. I have Richards baptism records of 1797.
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If you have his baptism record, surely you know who his parents were? And a more precise location than “Middlesex”?
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Would this be the baptism you have for Richard? -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQYD-DXP
JJ
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Possible burial is 23.11.1845 at St Giles without Cripplegate, aged 48. Abode: Paul’s Alley.
Death reg: Richard Hall aged 48, Dec qtr 1845 East London.
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Address was 1841 • St Michael Wood Street, Middlesex, England and only has John Hall and Mary on the records. I am looking for info on John and Mary. I have all I need for Richard. Thanks.
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Could you please give the full information from the 1841 census including the reference number.
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1841 in Flying Horse Court in the City of London:
Richard Hall 44 Porter
Harriett do 40 Shoe bender
Harriett do 19 Shoe bender
Eleanor do 4mo
All born in county.
HO107/722 bk22 f9 p12
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Address was 1841 • St Michael Wood Street, Middlesex, England and only has John Hall and Mary on the records. I am looking for info on John and Mary. I have all I need for Richard. Thanks.
Have you looked for baptisms of other children of John & Mary, so as to get a timeline for their family?
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I can only see Richard as the only child. All I have are his parents names. This is where I am stuck. Have trailed through documents but someone else might have a better lead or knowledge on tracing.
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Could you please give the full information from the 1841 census including the reference number.
I can only see Richard as the only child. All I have are his parents names. This is where I am stuck. Have trailed through documents but someone else might have a better lead or knowledge on tracing.
As Rosie has previously posted it would be helpful if you could give us the details of John and Mary on the 1841 please.
JJ
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Citation details for 1841 census are -St Michael Wood Street Middlesex HO107/722/ Book: 22/Folio: 9; p 12;
I have attached the birth certificate page. Photo wont open.
Moderator comment: please do not copy and paste or post images from commercial sites, most are subject to copyright. You must transcribe what you see in the images.
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Post deleted
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I am confused, you say you have John & Mary in 1841 and have given us the reference number as we asked H0107/722 Bk22 f9 p12 but that is showing Richard & family
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I concluded that what was meant that the only information about John & Mary was the baptism record (?)
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All we know about Richard then was he married at St Giles without Cripplegate, City of London in November 1818. 1841 has him as age 44 born London living in the City of London. :-\
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I can't see any likely siblings for Richard in Finsbury baptisms :( Too many Hall's :-\
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yes Rosie, seems like alot of people are stuck at the same point I am. All I have is that birth register front page that mentions John and Mary as being parents.
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Seems like alot of people are stuck at the same point I am. All I have is that birth register front page that mentions John and Mary as being parents.
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There is also a baptism at Our Lady of the Assumption & St Gregory, Warwick Street, Soho of a Richard Hall - parents Richard Hall & Susanna Smallwood on 22 Aug 1797 :-\ (Roman Catholic)
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Richard Hall 1797 had 2 sons Richard 1841 and Richard M F (1819) with Harriet Selina de Bouffler. I am 100% that Richard's (1797) wife is correct and can't be Susanna. My line comes from his son Frederick Hall (1834) who was married to Sarah Hutson
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Susanna is his possible mother not wife
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Oh but on Richards birth certificate register page it says John Hall and Mary. So are you saying I try another Richard plus this Susanne as his wife instead?
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The page you pasted earlier was not a 'birth certificate register' but a transcription of a parish register entry which showed a birth date as well as the baptism date. Some clergy give this information though it is not required.
I found the other record this morning, I was just suggesting it as an alternative Richard though I have not checked to see if he survived long enough to marry.
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Same for Susanna and Richard, struggling to find concrete link. Richard Hall 1797 did get convicted for 14 days in 1843 for "DO" which I think is drunken offence. Interesting. Seems to be a lot charged for the same reason.
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JJ - Yes that is the correct baptism record. I cant find out anymore about John and Mary and am really keen to shed some light on this. Would be a shame to come to a halt here. Any tips?
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I am still stumped on Richards parents John and Mary which is on his birth certificate. Hmm.
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Is this your Frederick in 1871?
2 Church Lane, Hampstead RG10/191 folio 62 pg 30
Frederick Hall head mar 37 hackney carriage driver b. Oxon, Benson
Sarah wife 40 b. Sussex, Rodmell
Frederick W son 8 b. Surrey, Peckham
Herbert son 3 b. Middx, Hampstead
birth reg for Frederick W dec qtr 1862 Camberwell 1D pg 514 mmn Hutson
If so, you're looking at the wrong Richard & Harriet as Frederick was born in Oxfordshire
1851 census Benson, Oxfordshire
Richard Hall head mar 54 Ag lab b. Berkshire, Radley
Harriot wife 50 b. Radley
John son 27 ag lab b. Benson
Frederick son 17 ag lab b. Benson
Henry son 15 ag lab b. Benson
Richard son 10 errand boy b. Benson
William son 8 b. Benson
1841 census Tidmarsh, Ewelme HO107/881/8 folio 22 pg 16
Richard Hall 40 ag lab
Harriet 40
James 15 ag lab
John 13 ag lab
Edward 12 ag lab
Thomas 10 ag lab
Frederick 7
Henry 5
Susan 1
Richard 3 months
all born Oxfordshire except Harriet
Birth regs for Susan, Richard & William at Wallingford have mother's maiden name of Hughes
Marriage 31 March 1823 in Burnham, Buckinghamshire for Richard Hall & Harriet Hughes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNGL-G82
Richard Hall of Benson from the BTs, witnesses Stephen Simmonds & James Collins
Harriet was baptised 5 Oct 1800 in Radley, daughter of Thomas & Susannah
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKKF-96B
Can't see an obvious baptism for Richard, but he doesn't help with census entries as 1841 says born in county and 1851 & 1861 say Radley, Berkshire. Also, there's not a huge amount of records for Berkshire & Oxfordshire online from that period. But I'm certain it's not the one Finsbury one.
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Thinks wires might be crossed here. My great grandfather was Herbert E Hall 1826 married to a Mary K Fox. Herbert's parents were Frederick and Sarah Hutson. I am 100% sure on this. Then Frederick's parents were Richard Michael Faraday Hall 1819 who married Emily Holdstock. This is then where Richard Hall 1797 comes in married to Harriet Selina de Bouffler. Hope you can follow.
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Herbert Ernest Hall married Mary Fox 29 Sept 1894. He was 28, post office clerk and father Frederick a coachman, witnesses were Frederick W Hall & Sarah Hall. So the 1871 census I gave would appear to be the correct family with father Frederick a hackney carriage driver and older brother Frederick William. That Frederick was born in Benson, Oxfordshire around 1834 and his father, according to the census, was Richard, an ag lab born 1797.
Do you have the 1857 marriage certificate to show father's name & occupation? Not just the transcription available online.
Frederick's age on the census shows that he was born around 1834 so somone born 1819 is too young to be his father.
Richard Hall married Emily Holdstock 20 July 1848, about 14 years after the birth of Frederick in Benson, Oxfordshire.
Richard Hall & Emily did have a son called Frederick, his birth was registered jan qtr 1856 East London vol 1c pg 12 mmn Holdstock.
Richard and family in 1861
23 Richmond St, RG9/203 folio 97 pg 4
Richard Hall head mar 41 bookseller's assistant
Emily wife 39 b. Kent, Dymchurch
Emily dau 11
Alice dau 10
Richard son 8
Frederick son 5 )_ twins
Elizabeth dau 5 )
Ann dau 2
So here Frederick shows as aged 5 in 1861 and yet you say he married Sarah Hutson when that marriage was 6 Sept 1857?
I think more than one online tree has been conflated here.
::) ::)
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Everything you have here is correct. Everything up to Frederick 1833 and Sarah Hutson/Hudson is correct and you make a valid point re the ages. This means I need to recheck who Frederick's parents are. This may explain why I was stuck with this Richard. My family have confirmed there was a Sarah Hutson as a great grandmother.
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I have an 1841 census with a Richard and Harriet parents of Frederick age 7, address seems correct too. Lots of other kids. Will see what unfolds here. I might be back to Richard 1797 again married to Harriet Selina de Bouffler. Then I will be stuck again lol with Richards parents.
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The Richard & Harriet in Ewelme in Oxfordshire in 1841 with 7 year old Frederick are Richard Hall & Harriet Hughes. The Richard married to Harriet Selina doesn't have a Frederick with him only Harriet aged 19 and Eleanor 4 months.
To be sure of the father of Frederick you need a copy of the 1857 marriage certificate. It will confirm name & occupation. Ref sep qtr 1857 Lewes vol 2b pg 195.
;)
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Yup. I found that on the 1851 census a Harriet Hughes too. We are on the same page. Thanks for the steering me right by checking the children's birthdates dates.
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glad I could help!
;D
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You most definitely have. Can't thank you enough.
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Harriet Hughes and Richard are proving just as difficult to find Richards parents. Only a Mary has come up so far.
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I gave you the 1841 & 1851 census for them in reply 30, also their marriage & Harriet's baptism in Radley.
Baptisms in the same parish to Thomas & Susannah in FamilySearch batch C13755-2
William bp 12 April 1801
Elizabeth bp 9 May 1802
Charlotte bp 1 June 1804
Hannah bp 29 June 1806
Mary bp 9 April 1809
Elizabeth bp 14 Oct 1810
James bp 28 June 1812
Jemima bp 17 April 1814
Radley is on the border of Oxfordshire so the marriage could be in either county but it's always possible the marriage isn't online.
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Mary Hughes 4 dau of Thomas & Susannah buried 21 Nov 1813 address Kennington
James 2 months son of Thomas & Susannah buried 17 Sep 1812 Kennington
Susan Hughes 67 wife of Thomas buried 9 Oct 1844 Kennington
Thomas Hughes widower 77 buried 17 Nov 1850 Kennington
1841 Kennington, Radley HO107/20/17 folio 4 pg 4
Thomas Hughes 65 ag lab
Susan 65
Mary 20
Henry 9
all born in county
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Thanks I got all that. It is the Hall line that I am focussing on, so Richard and his parents who I think are Richard and Mary. Couple of conflicting dates with Harriet being the same age as Richard and then being 4 years younger.
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ages on the 1841 census were meant to be rounded down to the nearest 5 for people over 15, but not all enumerators did this. The one for Ewelme seems to have played by the rules.
;)