RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: msindie on Sunday 29 April 18 00:43 BST (UK)
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Hi. Am looking for guidance on how to locate my Scottish GGM's (born 1869) death record that is proving impossible so far. Found her on 1881 census living in Everton age 22, Barmaid and single. GF was born 1894 and birth cert cites her as married and living at Mill Road L6. Then she disappears off the face of the earth. I believe she was killed in an accident but cant find her anywhere after 1894. Any advice on where to look next much appreciated. Thanks 😀
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Birth registration for John Stokes March 1/4 1895 W Derby (which includes Everton) This is Jessie's son? What is the father's name on his birth certificate and his occupation?
Can you follow the son and his father in the later censuses?
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Welcome to rootschat :)
I think you mean 1891 census :-\
RG12/2942 f53 p33 Cobden Street, Everton has her as age 22 born Scotland (Jessie McCloud) making year of birth c1869.
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Hi thanks for your reply! Oh yes. 1891 sorry . .fat fingers lol. Yes 12 Cobden Street. This is her 😄
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Thanks so much Crisane! I'm not even sure where I'm supposed to reply to an individual on here yet. Sorry!
My GF DOB was 20.12.1884 and he was registered Jan 1885 wirh his Father being John Stokes and his Mother Jessie Stokes formerly McLeod. After this I can find no trace of her. My GF next shows up in 1911 census aged 17 as a patient at the military hospital in Deal, Kent. I can't find him on the 1901 census. My GGF died Feb 2017 but prior to that, the only John Stokes I can find is listed in the 1911 census as living at the Lord Nelson Hotel, Hotham Street, Liverpool with a married daughter and her husband Elizabeth and Peter Stott but I don't know if this is my GF or not as yet.
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"..My GF DOB was 20.12.1884 " Do you mean 1894?
Can you please list all the information on this birth certificate please.
"..My GGF died Feb 2017..." Can you clarify this please. Whose death is this, and where did he die.
Do you have enlistment record for your John Henry STOKES?
Do you have a marriage certificate for your John STOKES?.
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Oh dear. Im useless typing on a phone! Can I attach a photo...is that allowed?
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Yes 1894! :-[
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I have birth cert for GF and also wedding cert...no enlistment as yet ...he obviously joined up before WW1 and demobbed afterwards. It seems he then joined the Merchant Marine for what looks like 3 years from 1918-1921. I have photos of all of the above docs and can add them here?
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Thanks so much Crisane! I'm not even sure where I'm supposed to reply to an individual on here yet.
You are doing fine ;D Replies are best on here, personal messages are just for more confidential information.
Oh dear. Im useless typing on a phone! Can I attach a photo...is that allowed?
Don't worry about your typing. We are only allowed to post parts of certificates / documents when they need deciphering.
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The John Henry Stokes age 17 in 1911 census Royal Marine Infirmary, Blenheim Road, Deal, is a private in the Royal marines
There is this death for a John H Stokes.
John H Stokes
Death Age 72
born about 1894
Registered Dec 1966
Registration district - Liverpool North Lancashire
Vol 10d
Page - 160
You can post the documents but only post part of the image that is applicable or if it is easier just give the source of the document and type out the information on it.
Who was it who died in 2017?
As rosie99 says just keep hitting the reply button underneath the posts. You can answer to more than one person in the same reply box.
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Thank you both so much! I was just so excited to find this page late last night that I just forged ahead without reading how to actually use it 🙊. Cute dog Rosie 😀.
Thank you for the Royal Marine info Crisane! Yes, the 1966 death is my John Henry. Again fat fingers ..GGF John Stokes died 1917!
Ok I'll try to figure out how to add the docs as one is a hard copy, one is a photocopy and the other is a pdf 😯 so I have taken pictures/screenshots of them all so this could be fun 😄
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So that we know we are looking at the right John Stokes it may be best if you can work back towards the 1911 census.
Who did the John Stokes (born 1894) marry. If you have the certificate could you please post the details including the witnesses. We do not need a copy of this information
Thanks :)
Rosie
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John Henry McLeod STOKES - Soldier (23) ...Father - John STOKES; Ship's Captain (deceased)
m
Mary Ellen CROOK - Spinster (20)
...Father - Robert CROOK; Labourer
On
19 May 1918
At
St Thomas Church, Wavertree, Liverpool
Witnesses:
Richard Seward
Janet Forgan Laite (?)
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The John Henry Stokes who was in the Royal Marines date of birth 21 October 1893 - born Everton
He was discharged in 1912 address 5 Perth Street, West Derby
Next of kin Uncle _ John -15 Hotham Street, London Road, Liverpool which is the Lord Nelson Hotel
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Oh wow! Thank you. So he is not my John Henry.. .so that clears up a lot. There is a family story about the Lord Nelson and it's actually this that I started out trying to prove or dispel. Can I ask where you found the link between those two Rosie? The Deal link came to me through a relative in the States, who tried to find some info years ago...but I wasn't sure that JH was ours and now I can tell her that he's not. Thank you so much!! :D
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I would not rush into telling anyone anything yet. I think it needs a bit more research to confirm it all so give us a bit more time to look and see what we can find. :)
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"..So he is not my John Henry"
John Henry STOKES, the marine in the hospital, Census 1911, is not your John Henry McLeod STOKES m. 1918?
John STOKES died 1917 is not your family?
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Hi Rosie. Won't do anything until I've got more info on Jessie and her marriage and death ..as I want to get to the bottom of her and John Snr's story. Thank you again 😁.
Hi Wivenhoe
Yes John Henry Stokes m 1918 is mine, as is John d Feb 1917 ... but JH in Marines is not my GF but they may all possibly be related and this is where the confusion over the Lord Nelson story has arisen in the family history takes passed down 😯.
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Death March qtr 1917
John Stokes age 69
Liverpool 8b 64
Do you have this death certificate - I was wondering what the address was for his death.
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Hi Rosie... I don't have any death certificates for anyone as yet...sorry. ::)
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National Probate Calendar has John STOKES d. 10 Feb 1917 of Lord Nelson Hotel 15 Hotham St Probate to William HARRILL beerhouse keeper
Nothing yet to connect this John STOKES to John Henry McLeod STOKES m. 1918.
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Ahhh ok .... thanks Wivenhoe! :D So of course he won't be my GGF then if he is the one from the Lord Nelson. The mystery deepens!
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Census 1901 @ 101 Old Hall St Liverpool LANCS
STOKES John head 52y married licensed victualler b. Bristol Somerset
STOKES Albert son 17y single public house carman b. Liverpool LANCS
STOKES Arthur son 29y single agent emigration b. Bristol Somerset
McLEOD Lucy niece 9y single b. Liverpool LANCS
BEAUMONT Louis servant 32y widow housekeeper b. Boulogne
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Hi. I'm wondering if this is John Stokes of Lord Nelson in 1911 Census? Only because of the pub connection. A family member advised that my John Henry b 1894 may have had a sister Lucy and a brother Albert but were unsure (I am looking to see if those names were born to Jessie and John in the 1890s. My GF didn't have a relationship with his children so hence the information is shaky. I love a mystery lol.
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If you were discounting J H the Royal Marine because of his date of birth he could have been lying. He was under age when he joined up.
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If he was 17 then that's probably correct as he was born 1894 ...but I was thinking if he gave NoK as his Uncle that wouldn't be him. However I'm wondering now if both his parents were already deceased?!
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I've found a Lucy Stokes b 1893 but to a William and Jessie. So ..again..not mine.
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John Stokes bn Backwell is in Liverpool 1881 age 32 occ Dock Labourer - Married - a patient in 'Northern Hospital'
RG9/ 3607 f73 p40
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Looks like a possible match.
Census 1901
STOKES John head 52y married licensed victualler b. Bristol Somerset
Census 1911
STOKES John 63y born Backwell Bristol
passenger agent.
(Backwell is in Somerset)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRR-DLK
Moderator comment: 1911 census information edited for content. You may only post information from a free search
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So am I correct in thinking that Somerset John Stokes is possibly the NoK Uncle of my GF John Henry b 1894?I
I have found a John Stokes age 28 born Oxton Cheshire (now Wirral) as a visitor on the 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census ..listed as a seaman ...My GGF was a Ship's Captain according to John Henry's wedding cert in 1918 no Rather was deceased by then.
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There looks to be a connection between -
........John Henry STOKES who was in the Royal Marines date of birth 21 October 1893
........and John STOKES of Lord Nelson Hotel, d. 1917, who is possibly the man Census, 1901, at 101 Hall St Liverpool
I think you need to see an enlistment file for John Henry McLeod STOKES, soldier at 1918, marriage certificate, your ancestor.
Apart from the marriage certificate, where do you see him named as John Henry McLeod STOKES?
As father on the birth certificates of his children...as their father on marriage certificates of his children. How strongly does he carry the third given name.
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There does seem to be a connection between those two, yes. Just dont know if this John in Marines is my GF. My GF birth cert has name registered as John only. Then on his wedding cert he is John Henry McLeod. On his Merchant Seaman docs he is John Henry. On the BMD he is John Henry Mcl.
I don't have birth cert for his children yet. I started with him and wanted to go backwards...so will need to contact f
cousins to see if they hold their parent's birth certificates as all of their parent's are deceased. I don't have my own Fathers so will need to start there. Thanks SO much for your help today! I need to head out now but will make a start looking for my Dad and his siblings certs as soon as I can. :)
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Peter Stott died 10th January 1916 (Freemason records)
In 1901 Peter & Elizabeth have a Rose Stokes bn Backwell age 21 (sister in law) with them
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My GF birth cert has name registered as John only. Then on his wedding cert he is John Henry McLeod. On his Merchant Seaman docs he is John Henry. On the BMD he is John Henry Mcl.
He was a soldier in 1918 as per marriage.
Then in 1919 in the Royal Naval reserve
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7713805
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Thank you. I do have a copy of his Merchant Seamans book with his photograph etc on which is fab...I will take a look at this properly later on. Wish I lived closer to Kew lol. I would be in there all the time ;D
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Thanks Rosie. I saw the Stotts in Birkenhead on the Census but was unaware Peter had died in 1916. Still unsure if these were my Stokes directly. Looks like they may possibly have been cousins. Thanks again :)