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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: sheenamac on Sunday 29 April 18 03:26 BST (UK)
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My ancestor John Blyth was a shoemaker at the time of the birth of his son Thomas in 1775. Would lovw to find some details.
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Hello Sheenamac,
I've had a search for your ancestor, John and his son, born 1775,in Fife, but no Thomas appears in Newburgh. I do have two spouses i.e. Margaret Marshall and Ann Miller, in Newburgh and one other married to a John Blyth. But these marriages do not produce a son Thomas in 1775.
Do you have any information if reference to John Blyth, if so, it will give me a more stable result in pin-pointing your real ancestor...................Ron.
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Hi Sheenamac,
I had another scan ref: the son, Thomas, of John Blyth. The date you mentioned was 10 years out; Thomas was in fact born 1787, on the 15th June in Newburgh....Agnes Millar was the Spouse of John and Mother of Thomas who was baptised two days later. John worked as a Shoemaker as you predicted and employed at Shuttlefield.....
I will persevere with the details I have downloaded on the Birth Certificate and see what transpires.
I hope any info: I find will be to your advantage..............................Ron.
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Some info. here;
https://waughfamily.ca/Blythe/#John_Blyth_&_Ann_Miller
Annie
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Thomas Blyth, son of John and Agnes Millar of Newburgh, married Margaret Smith on the 6th November 1808 aged 21 years at Dunbog in the Parish of Abernethy. The graveyard there is much aged and I'm sure will submit a few names of interest.
I will leave the rest of the family for you to investigate...........................Ron.
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Just to add: If you look on the thread that ROSINISH added and looking down quarter way you will see the statement: ''There was also a Thomas born to John Blyth (Shoemaker at Shufflefield) and Agnes Millar in Newburgh baptised 17th June 1787''. That sentence is giving confirmation that STOB BAN's thread for your ancestor JOHN BLYTH and family were correct.......................Ron.
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Thank you very much for your efforts on this problem. I guess I have to work out whether Ann and Agnes Miller are the same person.
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Hi Sheenamac,
The Christian name for John Blyth's spouse is Agnes, not Ann. I had a look at both entries in the Church Records of 1775 & 1787 and the entry for the marriage of John Blyth was indecipherable due to ink smudging at the bottom of the page where the names appear. Agnes's name is totally obliterated and a 'guess' has been made, namely 'Ann'. The name appearing for the birth of Thomas is definitely Agnes, as the Mother, without a doubt...
Agnes Miller IS the wife of John Blyth............Ron.
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Great detective work. Well done. Now I've got to do some more work on John as I still think I've followed the wrong one. It's a never ending story, isn't it. Love Rootschat and how willing people are to give assistance.
Sheena
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Hi Sheenamac,
If that is not the John Blyth your after then your Thomas is out of sync too. IS there a son of this name involved.?......................Ron.
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No, this is definitely the right John Blyth, but I'm not sure I've identified his parents etc. I think at that stage I've followed the wrong path going backwards.
Sheena
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Hi Sheena,
By going backwards I presume you mean John's Parents. If so, going on the premis that John married between the ages of 14years & 34, giving us between 1741 and 1761 to work on. Males in the past, normally did first marry between those ages for one reason or another; that's giving us somewhat of a start..........
I'll give you four possible birth dates for John, to compare with that you already have:
4th Oct. 1741........9th Apl. 1757.......24th July 1760........25th Jan 1761........All four dates are for John's, born in NEWBURGH.
If you still 'struggle' get in touch, I'll give you the four sets of Parents also.....................Ron.
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I've followed a line from John Blyth and Janet Spence/r. Based on the information you've given me I'll have another look at it.
Thanks again.
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Hi Sheena,
John Blyth & Janet Spence do come within the marriage range I mentioned, i.e. 4th Nov. 1741....but the town of Markinch is well south of Newburgh; unless your ancestors came from there originally. All four I have are 'townies' of Newburgh.......................Ron.
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Hi,
John Blyth & Janet Spence did have a son named John, born in Markinch, 23rd Aug. 1747..........Ron.
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Sheena,
I downloaded the birth details regarding the Birth of John Blyth, Markinch, Mother Janet Spence, as above; they read thus: ''because the Father, namely John, was absent from the Baptism, John, the baby was Baptised: ''John James Knox Spence''. William & Andrew, John's brothers were in attendance as witnesses, but seemingly, John the Father, had ''shot the craw'' an appropriate Scottish term.
If John's name has remained the same as baptised, then that makes searching much easier.
Ron.
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Thanks Ron. That's the birth certificate that sent me along the Spence/r path. This is the only reference I've found to the longer name of John James Knox Spence - for anybody, I have got two other children for Blyth/Spence - Margaret and William.
From what you've seen, do you think that John James Knox Spence Blyth is the one who married Ann Millar? I've followed that path for a number of generations, and I got disheartened when I thought I was on the wrong path.
Sheena
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Agnes/Ann are interchageable.
John Blyth & Agnes/Ann Millar/Miller appear to have had at least 5 children all b Newburgh.
John 1777
Janet 1779
Robert 1782
Thomas 1787
William 1789
Is it/it is possible Janet was named after her paternal g/mother?
Annie
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Hi again Ron
That was my thinking also. With nothing else to go on, I think I'm comfortable that I've followed the right path.
Thanks heaps for your time and help with this one. I, of course, would be happy to have any other thoughts you come up with.
I notice McPhee is one of your names. I have a Catherine McFie/McPhee born c1780 Argyll, parents Alexander McPhee and Janet McLachlan.
Sheena
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Hi Sheena,
Yea agree, I think Janet was upset with John not being at the Baptism, so to spite him she named the son as she did. At least the Minister would be pleased with the name ''KNOX''..............No Sheena I'm not a McPhee, not even a Mudie, but more of a Ewan or Anderson. I did all my ancestry many moons ago, including all the Maternal side......quite a big job.
I'll have a look again at you threads, see what materialises so I may be of help.............Ron.
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Sheena,
What info: do you have on where the Blyths, your ancestors, started off, i.e. Town or County; not so much their employment. In the old days many changed from job to job, especially in Fife; as Farm Labouring was in demand a lot in Fife. Other places too and a heck'ava lot of workers relocated, I'm only guessing but maybe, just maybe, your chasing the Shoemaker line?
Anyway Sheena, give me an indication, if you can, where the 'your' Blyths began................Ron..
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Hi Ron
Family knowledge had them coming from Fife to Greenock. Proven connections are from Strathmiglo (Newburgh) (David 1821), then going backwards Thomas from Newburgh m Margaret Smith from Dunbog in Dunbog, John married Agnes Millar in Newburgh, but John James Knox Spence was born in Markinch which might mean he's not the right John, especially as John and Agnes's marriage certificate says they're "both of this parish" (Newburgh).
I've had a further look. There are two Johns born in Newburgh between 1750 and 1760. Parents John and Elizabeth, and David and Agnes. David is a family name, even to this present day.
John and Ann only had one daughter named Ann so that doesn't help, though you've pointed out before that John and Agnes having a daughter named Janet might indicate that Janet Spence/r is the right mother.
I really appreciate your thoughts on this one. Thanks again. Sheena
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Hi Sheena,
Got the info: okay, will spend some time going over it, hopefully something will transpire to please us all, ......will be in touch when I get somewhere....................Ron.
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Sheena,
Double-checked the dates, look okay. I presume you have all the dates of Births and Marriages of all those you gave me. The follow-up I found to John Blyth married to Agnes, born 4th Oct. 1741, was his Parents, John Blyth and Margaret Weem, several spellings of this name. They tied the knot on the 1st Sept. 1732. Newburgh was the Parish the family resided.
I have further info: but I gotta go oot.!! How far do you want to go back.......Roman... Viking.....or maybe infinity............................When did the Blyth's come to Greenock.?
P.s. I'll go back as far I can trace.............................Ron.
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Sheena,
Here are the children's names from John Blyth & Margaret Weem: Marriage; 1st Sept. 1732. The names of the two sons reflect the ancestors and one of the females as you so, expected.
1. Jean born 25th July 1736.............2. David born 4th Feb. 1739............3, John born 4th Oct 1741..............4. Margaret 27th May 1744.......All were born in the Village of Newburgh, indicating this was the ''home'' town of this particular Blyth family.
There was an earlier Birth for the 1st John Blyth born of the above parents in 20 July 1735, but sadly died & the one born in 1741, given his name.
Ron.
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Hello Sheena, I believe that John Blyth married to Margaret Weem, was born in Newburgh and his Parents were David Blyth & Margaret Freebairn, (another David) He was born 31st Aug. 1712. He died 25th July 1773 in Kinnoull. When he wed Margaret he was aged 20 years and died aged 81.
Kinnoull village is in Perth and from Newburgh a Ferry-Boat of the time would take five minutes to row across by way of 'The Firth of Tay. Perthshire being a lovely place, as I should know; I was born there.
P.s. John's paretnts, David and Margaret Freebairn, as above, were Married 19th Nov. 1708 and of course John was born on 31 Aug. 1712. Newburgh.
Following this family in chronological order will take you back to David Blyth born 1821 in Newburgh from when we began...........................Ron.
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Dunbog in the Parish of Abernethy.
Dunbog is in Abernethy Parish?
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Sheena,
David, who was married to Margaret Freebairn, his parents were David Blyth and Elspeth Buist who were both married in Newburgh on the 30th Nov. 1679. David on marrying Elspeth would be aged 29.
On searching for further Blyths residing in Newburgh in this era 1660, are five male Blyths, four baring the Christian name John. To ensure positivity it would be necessary to research, all the children too............ugh!...
All the research to date regarding your ancestors follows precisely the family-line you've been searching........................................Ron.
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Just picking up the pieces again, trying to digest what we've got. I purchased the book "Blyth: A family in Fife" which is interesting but doesn't help prove the link. Need to get the thinking cap on again.
Regards
Sheeena
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I've had a look at the Waugh link which suggests that my John's parents were John and Margaret Weems whereas I had been looking at John and Janet Spence/r. What complicates the issue is that Thomas's parents John and Ann Millar have a daughter Janet but not a Margaret. This seems to be another factor in favour of Janet Spencer. What do you think?
sheena
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Another thought. In the absence of Janet Spence/r's husband, the witnesses are Andrew and William Blyth, whom I've assumed are his brothers. I therefore looked for a family with boys with those three names which led me to William Blyth and Isobel Brigs. Any thoughts on this logic?
Sheena
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Hi Sheena,
I would have to go back on my findings in ref: to the Blyth's to understand the lineage we were on as the info: I surrendered after a thoroughly good research was fairly consistent with a family living in an area where very little happens, except, possibly, someone NOT going to Church. God forbid.!!
I'll have a 'butchers' at what I discovered and see what transpires, if anything. Will be in touch, Sheena.
P.s. Hope all's well with you..............................Ron.