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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: mlrsuperstar on Sunday 29 April 18 09:35 BST (UK)
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Ellen Goldsworthy lived at 54 Middle Street, in the Trallwn ward of Pontypridd in 1901. She died in 1932 and is buried in Glyntaff along with her second husband and granddaughter.
She was born Ellen Barclay (BARKLEY) in 1854 near Aberkenfig, in 1874 she marries a James Kinsey in Llangynwyd church, I don't know where he went because in 1882 she marries Joseph Goldsworthy in 1882 in Pontypridd register office with no mention of a previous marriage. Joseph dies in 1898 and she is left with three children. But after the 1901 census I do not know where she went until her death in 1932.
Can anyone help ?
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Eliminating children/families she may have been with . . . . .
2x of her children are in Llantrisant
(Henry) John Goldsworthy (16) is with sister
Elizabeth J (Jennie) Montague after she married David John M in 1904 Pontypridd.
Maybe worth looking for the others?
May also be worth looking for her with her old 1901 lodger David Williams b1860
Ray
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Not in Pontypridd with Thomas (m 1904), Beatrice & d Ruby(b1904)
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Hi
1901 shows her with 4 ( not 3 ) children ?
Joseph 1881
Thomas 1885
"Jennie" ( Elizabeth J ? ) 1883
John 1897 4
Ray
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Sorry Ray you are right ...4 children
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If I found the correct "young" Joseph, she is not with him either.
( Margret, Ivy May, Doris )
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MLR
Is this your family?
What do you know of her relatives from this point?
Please confirm her death reg as 1932 QM Pontypridd 11a 695 aged 76 (Amended)
What is the address and informant on the certificate?
Ray
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Hi Ray
Ellen was my first cousin three times removed. She is buried in Glyntaff Cemetery Grave H0161 Burial no 22742 (source GFHS Disc Glyntaff Cemetery Burial Index 1875-1999 ).
She is Q1 1932, Volume 11a Page 695 (rather than 595) Age 76.
I don't have the cert as this is the begining of the search and if I can do it without spending £6.00 getting a PDF cert from the GRO I will
Regards
MLR
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There is a James Kinsey 22 + Ellen 21 + John 2m in Radnor
That will have made them 15 and 14 when they married.
Can't see any other yet?
(Anyone else looking?)
Goldsworthy named children would seem . . . . .
(various Barclay/Barcley/Berkley/Barkley mmn, Pontypridd/M.Tydfil)
*** With her in 1901
*** William Joseph Goldsworthy ( mmn Berkley ) Merthyr 1882qJ -
*** Thomas Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Pontypridd 1885qS -
*** Elizabeth Jane (Jennie?) Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Merthyr 1885qD -
Henry Goldsworthy ( mmn Barkley ) Merthyr 1887qM - 1887qM
Henry Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Merthyr 1888qM - 1888qd
Hermut/Hermit Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Merthyr 1889qS - 1890qD
Sarah Goldsworthy ( mmn Berkley ) Pontypridd 1891qM - 1891qD
Sarah Goldsworthy ( mmn Berkley ) Pontypridd 1893qJ - 1893qJ
*** Henry John Goldsworthy ( mmn Barcley ) Pontypridd 1895qJ -
Beatrice Ellen Goldsworthy ( mmn - ) Pontypridd 1902qS -
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The Armit birth has supprised me.
Armit sometimes written as Harmit or Hermit.. but is in fact Armit.... is a family name in the Barclay family going back to the 1700s. When they married into the Harrison family from where they took it's use. It is also Ellen's father's name...in his case he was known as Harmit.
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Back to the chase....the question is does anyone know what became of Ellen between 1901 and 1932 ?
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So apart from Armit/Hermut/w.h.y., then the rest are incorrect?
You have eliminated the listed children from the list of people she could be staying with?
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I was not aware of this son that's all.
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There are only 4 children by Ellen from a Goldsworthy. And also a missing Mary Jane Barkley who she had as a teenager by an unkown partner ( yes I have the cert ) MJB however having completed a prison sentence in 1888 also vanishes.
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As amended . . . . .
Goldsworthy named children would seem . . . . .
(various Barclay/Barcley/Berkley/Barkley mmn, Pontypridd/M.Tydfil)
*** With her in 1901 ie those left alive in 1901
*** William Joseph Goldsworthy ( mmn Berkley ) Merthyr 1882qJ -
*** Thomas Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Pontypridd 1885qS -
*** Elizabeth Jane (Jennie?) Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Merthyr 1885qD -
Henry Goldsworthy ( mmn Barkley ) Merthyr 1887qM - 1887qM
Henry Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Merthyr 1888qM - 1888qd
Hermut/Hermit Goldsworthy ( mmn Barclay ) Merthyr 1889qS - 1890qD
Sarah Goldsworthy ( mmn Berkley ) Pontypridd 1891qM - 1891qD
Sarah Goldsworthy ( mmn Berkley ) Pontypridd 1893qJ - 1893qJ
*** Henry John Goldsworthy ( mmn Barcley ) Pontypridd 1895qJ -
Beatrice Ellen Goldsworthy ( mmn - ) Pontypridd 1902qS -
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Where did you get mmn ? Please PM if you wish..
All these have mmn Barclay ?
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I am looking at the 1901 census and she is a widow with 4 children.
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"Widow 1901" ?
Maybe why birth reg for Beatrice Ellen appears to be for an illegitimate child
"All these have mothers maiden name of . . . . ." different ways of spelling "Barclay"
mmn = Mothers Maiden Name
MMN comes from Gro.gov.uk
[ https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp ]
There is no need to use PM . . . . .
They are not living, so no Rootschat rules being broken.
You need to be open about what info you have, it ALL helps.
Even the name/address of whoever registered the death of Ellen may provide something.
Ray
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Can't find Beatrice Ellen Goldsworthy on the 1911 Wales census....
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First I want to thank you for your help, I am very grateful for your help and indeed any help I can get on the subject of the Goldsworthy strand on the outskirts of my family. Ellen Barclay as I said had an illegitimate daughter Mary Jane two years before she married James Kinsey. According to newspaper and court records she was imprisoned for theft. After her release she goes astray, well I can't find her.
I believe the Beatrice Ellen that you have found was possibly the daughter of Elizabeth Jennifer ...why because Ellen by then was 48 years old and in those times she would have been old and worn down.
I have had conversations with my wife who is a midwife who says it is very unlikely to be a mother at that age at that time. A number of years ago we had an elderly family member who had been one of the first registered midwives ( a lady who was 103 years old ) she under the old system had to keep her own ledgers and records which we saw and were amazed at was the staggering level of infant and child mortality but her main point was that the number of teenage pregnancies where the mother recorded the daughters child as one of her own. She was asked frequently to record the births as so . I could well be wrong about this but the calculator doesn't lie. I am still trying to find out what occurred between 1901 and 1932 ...my search continues. Thanks again
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Are the workhouse or prison records listed on the 1911 census with full names or initials - that may be where she was at some point
The records for the Pontypridd Workhouse (on the Graig) are in the Glamorgan archives - may be worth inquiring
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Do you have her death certificate - whats her address on that?
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Hi
Death cert queries asked in reply#7.
Originator is not willing to obtain certificate.
Information obtained elsewhere is not confirmable nor negatable, by us,
based upon that source.
Ray
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I guess I will just have to get a death cert then.