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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Macushla on Monday 30 April 18 06:35 BST (UK)
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Hello, everyone.
I am trying to find more information on a James KERR, who was present at the registration of his illegitimate child, Marion Her(r?)iot KERR, who was born to Alexandrina HER(R)IOT on 8 September, 1884. Registration took place in the district of South Leith, in the county of Edinburgh.
I'm hoping to find James in the 1881 and 1891 censuses. His address at the time of his daughter's birth is 33, East Cross Causeway, Edinburgh. Of course, when I search James KERR in these records, quite a number come up and I'm just trying to narrow down the possibilities before shelling out for images.
Would someone please tell me which district I should be focussing on, considering his address?
With many thanks in advance.
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It is in Newington district. I think this would come under St Cuthbert, Newington in the 1881/91 census.
Isobel
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In the 1885 Valuation Roll there is 33 Crosscauseway , St. Cuthbert's , no sign of anyone Kerr though.
ev
Added -
I note there is also a Marion Herriot Kerr birth , Newington Midlothian in 1888 :-\
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Thank you, Isobel and Ev.
That gives me a few to think about ... interestingly, all of them that come up under Newington are either very young or over 50 ... and I think that Alexandrina was very young.
I'm trying to figure out if this James KERR is the same who married Margaret HERRIOT in 1884. Her mother's name was Marion ...
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........and deaths :(
Marion Heriot Kerr , age 0 , 1885 Newington Midlothian.
Marion Herriot Kerr , age 1 , 1889 Leith South Midlothian.
ev
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Thanks again, ev, I saw those deaths, too.
The little one who died in 1889 was one of twins born to James and Margaret in 1888; her brother died even before she did.
Am I crazy in following this up? I'm thinking it's just too much of a coincidence to have two babies with the same name, two mothers with the same surname, and two fathers with the same name, within about 5 years and within quite close quarters.
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Do you know what James Kerr's occupation was?
There is a baptism for a James Kerr 7 Feb 1886 Buccleugh Church Edinburgh - parents James Kerr and Maggie Herriot (From Familysearch Scotland Church records and Kirk Session Records).
1891 census 106 Bonnington Road
James Kerr 33 born South Leith
Margaret Kerr 31 born Gorebridge
James Kerr 5 born Edinburgh
Agnes Kerr 6 mo b S Leith
Baptism for Margaret Herriot? 27 Mar 1860 Temple Midlothian Mother Marion (At that time I believe that Gorebridge was in Temple parish).
1901 This family are living at 33 Bridge Street North Leith with four more children John , Archibald, Beatrice and Margaret.
1881 census the above James Kerr is at 30 Duke Street, Leith South showing as brother in law of Alexander Barbour and, therefore, brother of Jessie Barbour.
William
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Just to add to my previous post the baptism quoted for James Kerr in 1886 does not specify which Buccleugh Church but worth noting that the postal address for the Buccleugh Free Church is 10 West Crosscauseway. Google it and see how near it is to East Crosscauseway.
William
Added The baptism will have taken place in Buccleugh Parish Church which is in Chapel Street/ Buccleugh Street which West Crosscauseway joins onto.
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Thanks so much, William.
'My' James KERR, husband of Margaret HERRIOT, was a cooper ... and so was the James KERR who fathered the Marion Heriot KERR born to Alexandrina HERIOT.
The baptism of James that you have found is the first son born to the couple after the twins, and I think that is 'my' Marion HERRIOTT.
You're right, the locations are very close. Hmm ... perhaps I should try to get Alexandrina's birth certificate and check her parents? I think that she died as Alexandrina MENZIES in 1937.
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There is a birth on Familysearch of Alexandrina Heriot in South Leith in 1864, daughter if Thomas Heriot and Elizabeth nee Cunningham. In 1871 the family are in South Leith ( Ancestry have her as Alexanderine age 6). In 1881 the family are 13a Burn St Leith. They have an Alexander age 7 listed with them, but described as a daughter. I cross- checked on Scotlandspeople and they have this person listed as Alexandrina but still aged 7. There are no matching births on SP for either an Alexander or an Alexandrina in 1874 so I am fairly sure the age has been mistranscribed and this is the same person that appears with the family age 6 in 1871. Both Thomas and Elizabeth are shown as born South Leith.
Isobel
Added - Findmypast have the family listed as Hariot in 1881 but they do have this individual recorded as being Alexandrina age 17. Looks like it may be a poor quality original.
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The occupation showing for James Kerr in the censuses I quoted is cooper. Coincidence?
I take it you have the marriage cert. for James Kerr and Margaret Herriot. What is his address on that document? It might be worth locating the birth cert of their son James to check the address there. Given the date of his baptism he might have been born in either 1885 or 1886 - there,unfortunately, appear to be a number to choose from. Newington 1885 the most likely?
Findagrave has a photograph of the tombstone of Thomas Heriot (31 March 1839 -24 Feb 1907) and Elizabeth Cunningham (died 23 Jan 1922) in South Leith Churchyard.
William
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Thank you again, William.
I have an image for James KERR and Margaret HERRIOT's marriage, 14 Mar 1884, at The Manse, Leith, after banns in the Church of Scotland. James was 26, Margaret 22, and both have place of usual residence as 26 Glover Street, Leith.
I will have a look at James (junior's) birth, thanks for that suggestion. I'm trying to pace myself and my research - and I already see I am gathering information, getting excited and looking for the next piece without first slowing down and entering the information into my tree. But I think I have to buy some Scotland's People credits and try to solve this mystery.
I'm starting to get tangled up in all the Jameses and Margarets and Marions ... !
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A quick update for those who have helped me with this, thanks Millmoor, isobelw (apologies for missing you in my previous thanks) and ev.
I couldn't resist; I had to buy more credits on Scotland's People! And it looks like there are two James KERRs and that the naming of their children was coincidental.
The death registration for Marion Heriot KERR b. 1884 d. 1885 seems to indicate that both James and Alexandrina were living at 33 East Crosscauseway in 1885, as no other address is on the registration, and that is also where little Marion died.
I have confirmed that Alexandrina went on to marry Peter MENZIES in 1887.
While Alexandrina and her James were living at 33 East Crosscauseway in 1885, 'my' James KERR and Margaret HERRIOT were living at 26 Glover Street, Leith; at least, that is the address of both parties on their marriage registration of 1884.
Alexandrina's parents were Thomas and Elizabeth HERIOT (formerly CUNNINGHAM); Margaret HERRIOT's parents were George and Marion HERRIOT (formerly LAWSON). Many thanks for helping me clear this in my head, isobelw.
The thing is, I guess without birth dates of the parents, I can't be exactly sure, but I was willing to accept that there are two Jameses, until I compared these signatures (attached).
What do you think?
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The signatures look like they could be by the same person but I am no expert on this!
On a different tack I am not convinced that the parents of Margaret Herriot were George Lawson and Marion Herriot. At any rate I cannot see any evidence of a Herriot/Lawson marriage. As is often the case I suspect that a father was invented to hide illegitimacy.
1861 census at Gorebridge
Archibald Herriot 57
Marrian Herriot 21
James Herriot 15
Agnes Herriot 12
Margaret Herriot 10
Margaret Ramage 1 Granddaughter b Temple
I suspect that Margaret Ramage is in fact Margaret Herriot with Ramage being the reputed father's surname.
1871 at Stobhill
Archibald Heriiot 61
Marion Heriot 31 dau
James Heriot 24 son
Margaret Heriot 11 grandchild
Archibald Heriot 6 grandchild
Agnes Heriot 1 grandchild
On Ancestry the surname has been transcribed as Herish.
Baptisms
Archibald Herriot 9 Oct 1864 Temple, Midlothian Mother Marion Herriot
Agnes Lawson Herriot 1 Feb 1870 Stobhill, Midlothian Mother Marion Herriot (Perhaps this is where the Lawson comes from).
I think that Marion Herriot married Alexander Jack 1879 in Stobhill, Midlothian.
William
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Apologies for the delay in responding, William, you've dug me another rabbithole!
I'll need to look into this and I'm also thinking of putting the signatures on the handwriting section to see if there are some experts there.
It's all very confusing - and very interesting!
Many thanks again, William.
Sue
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I had a look at the deaths of Marion Herriot (Jack) and Margaret Herriot (Kerr) and think I can see where the surname Lawson comes from.
Marion Jack married to Alexander Jack coal miner died 16 Jan 1909 age 68 in Longmore Hospital, Edinburgh - usual residence Hunterfield, Gorebridge. Parents Archibald Herriot and Margaret Herriot m/s Lawson.
Margaret Kerr widow of James Kerr, cooper died 15 Sept 1925 age 65 at 7 Seafield Street, Leith. Parents Archibald Herriot and Marion Herriot m/s Lawson.
So it seems to me that the surname Lawson came from Margaret's grandmother. I also note that her father's name is showing as Archibald not George.
Marriage of Archibald Heriot and Margaret Lawson 20 June 1834 Temple, Midlothian.
William