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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bigfish033 on Tuesday 01 May 18 23:42 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find information on my 4Th gt grandfather William Malcolm born around 1801-1802 -Died 1852 Manchester UK was Buried in Rusholme Road cemetery (no longer existing).
The information i have is:
According to the 1841 census he was born 1801 and from Ireland (no record of birth) his spouse was a Seprina "Malcolm" past married name Seprina Oldfield (John oldfield deceased husband) birth name Seprina Taylor But (no record of marriage with William) the census says she is from Ireland but she was born in Debingshire wales.
they lived at 49 Hardman street Manchester in 1841
They had 3 children William Henry Malcolm.1835 (my 3 gt grandfather) Sarah Ann Malcolm 1837, George federick Malcolm 1838 All born in Manchester.
In 1851 Census it shows William is living with his son William Henry in a slum house in Manchester. and stats widowed.
I have no clue where William was born or when baptised any Info or help would be appreciated :).
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Do you have a reference for the census records? I am having trouble seeing any Malcolm living in Manchester in 1851.
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William was a Coachman
Baptism: 4 Jun 1837 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Sarah Ann Seprina Malcolm - Daughter of William Malcolm & Seprina
Abode: Manchr
Occupation: Coachman
Baptised by: W. W. Johnson
Register: Baptisms 1837, Page 395, Entry 3159
Source: LDS Film 1545611
Baptism: 4 Jun 1837 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
William Henry Malcolm - Son of William Malcolm & Seprina
Abode: Manchr
Occupation: Coachman
Notes: aged 3 years
Baptised by: W. W. Johnson
Register: Baptisms 1837, Page 395, Entry 3158
Source: LDS Film 1545611
no baptism for George ?? on this site
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
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Possible burial for Sarah in Rusholme ??
Grave 1722 - do you know the grave number of William ??
Burial: 19 Feb 1843 Rusholme Rd Cemetery, Chorlton-on-Medlock, Lancashire, England
Sarah A. Malcolm -
Age: 6yrs
Abode: Manchester
Grave: 1722
Cause of Death: Fever
Buried by: H H Jones
Register: Burials 1835 - 1845, Entry 36322
Source: Private Transcription
no record of William burial in 1852 on that site
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Seprina at the same address as you have for 1841 for the family
The 1851 for 49 Hardman Street has
Seprina Oldfield - Widow - age 48-Lodging house keeper born Wales
sons
John 28 bn Wales
Frederick 13 bn Manchester.
In case it helps find William Senior earlier
1841 has William Senior bn Ireland and Sebrina (Housekeeper) not bn in County (Lancashire)
H107/569 bk 2 f7 p8
John Oldfield 15 not bn in County (Lancashire)
Richard Oldfield 15 not bn in County
William Oldfield 10 not bn in County
Henry Oldfield 7 born in Ireland
Sarah Malcolm 5 bn in County (Lancashire)
Frederick Malcolm 3 bn in County
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Hi the grave number i have is 6300 for william BR Charlie
Possible burial for Sarah in Rusholme ??
Grave 1722 - do you know the grave number of William ??
Burial: 19 Feb 1843 Rusholme Rd Cemetery, Chorlton-on-Medlock, Lancashire, England
Sarah A. Malcolm -
Age: 6yrs
Abode: Manchester
Grave: 1722
Cause of Death: Fever
Buried by: H H Jones
Register: Burials 1835 - 1845, Entry 36322
Source: Private Transcription
no record of William burial in 1852 on that site
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Hi, this is what i have from Ancestry: est birth year:abt 1834, Relation: son, Fathers Name: William Malcolm, Gender: Male, Where born: Manchester Lancashire England, Civil parish: Manchester, Ecclesiastical parish: st John, Phillimore ecclesiastical parish: 4855, Town: Manchester, County: Lancashire, District: Manchester, Sub-District: Deansgate, ED: 01d, Household schedule n0: 126, piece 2227, Folio 100, page n0: 30
Do you have a reference for the census records? I am having trouble seeing any Malcolm living in Manchester in 1851.
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The 1851 census has William Malcolm as a Widow age 42 born Manchester - living 1 Austin's Court
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Hello great genealogy wise people :-) I wrote a similar request a few months ago about my 6th gt grandfather William Malcolm born abt 1801. I had some good replies and gave me some help however I was new on this site and details may have been a bit vague so i try again :-D
I am looking for any details of William Malcolm according to the 1841 census he lived with his wife Seprina Malcolm (born Seprina Taylor 1800 in Halkyn, Flintshire, Wales.) Right of Hardman Street, Manchester. Seprina was married to a John Oldfield (from Wales) in 1822 that died in Manchester 1833. and from that marriage was children: John, Richard, Henry, William Oldfield. William Malcolm and Seprina had also children together : Frederick (possible george frederick he borderd at his brothers william henry`s future wifes family home in 1861), Sarah, and William Henry Malcolm bn 1835. Seprina was a domestic servant and William was a coachman.
There are records of that Seprina living at the same address untill death in 1859. She was buried under the name of Seprina Oldfield and not Malcolm.
According to the 1841 census it appears the Census taker made little "sloppy and lazy" mistakes that made this search difficult and details sketchy. E.G the census taker wrote Leprina not Seprina and wrote that Seprina and William aswell as the Oldfield children was born in Ireland (we have evidence that the Oldfields were Welsh apart from Willam his birth blace at this moment unknown).
Well i Searched for a William Malcolm 1801 and I can not seem to find his birth, a wedding certificate to seprina also i dont know where is he really from. He seems to apear from nowhere.... what happend to him? where did he go? why Seprina was burried under the name of Oldfield?
Also i noticed on the march 30th 1851 census William lived with his son william henry Malcolm at 1 Austin court Manchester.
Any help would be appreiciate and thank you for your time. BR Charlie
Threads merged.
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George Frederick's baptism 6 May 1838 at Manchester Cathedral (parents William and Seprina).
Will keep looking ...
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Brilliant Thank you :-D
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A possible death for William MALCOLM - death reg Sep qtr 1841 at Manchester (20/474) aged 40.
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I have a bit of a update, From 1837-1843 i found William Malcolm as the Manchester rate book holder for 49 Hardman street. 1844-1853 his "wife" Seprina takes the book over. where did he go in 1843? as no deaths reported back then at that time , Thanx for help BR Charlie
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On Lancs OPC
William Henry Malcolm
Bapt. 4 June 1837 Collegiate, Manchester
Parents William and Seprina
Father's occ. Coachman
Notes: Aged three years
Emeltom
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Putting the information together gives:
TIMELINE
1800 Seprina TAYLOR born/baptised in Halkyn, Flintshire
1822 Seprina TAYLOR married John OLDFIELD
1833 John OLDFIELD died in Manchester
1841 census William MALCOLM, Sebrina MALCOLM and OLDFIELD/MALCOLM children together
to 1843 William MALCOLM ratebook holder for 49 Hardman Street
1844 onward Seprina MALCOLM ratebook holder for 49 Hardman Street
1851 census Seprina OLDFIELD at 49 Hardman Street widow with 2 sons
1851 census William MALCOLM in Austin Court, widower with 1 son
1852 death of William MALCOLM (buried at Rusholme)
1859 death of Seprina OLDFIELD
CENSUS INFORMATION (cited by rosie99 on other thread)
1841 census H107/569 bk 2 f7 p8, Lancashire
William Malcolm bn Ireland
Sebrina Malcolm not bn in County
John Oldfield 15 not bn in County
Richard Oldfield 15 not bn in County
William Oldfield 10 not bn in County
Henry Oldfield 7 born in Ireland
Sarah Malcolm 5 bn in County
Frederick Malcolm 3 bn in County
(ADDED & edited 5 Jun) FreeBMD transcriptions added to rosie99's info
1851 census HO107 2227/88 p7
Hardman Street, Manchester, Lancashire
Seprina Oldfield, head, 28, widow, lodging house keeper, born Wales
John Oldfield, son, 28, married, working jeweller, born Wales
Frederick Oldfield, son, 13, scholar, born Manchester
William Fisher, lodger, 48, widower, attorney clerk, born York
William Henry Rouson, 0, nurse child, born Manchester
1851 census HO107 2227/100 p30 (surname transcribed as MALCORN!)
1 Austin Court, Manchester, Lancashire
William Malcom, head, wid, 42, general vault porter, born Manchester
William Henry Malcom, son, unm, 17, general vault porter, born Manchester
BMDS
garstonite found (shown on other thread, quoting sources):
MALCOLM William Henry bapt 1837 age 3
MALCOLM Sarah Ann Seprina bapt 1837
MALCOLM Sarah A buried 1843 age 6
maddys52 found:
MALCOLM George Frederick bapt 1838
There is a possible death on GRO (General Register Office)
Dec qtr 1852 Manchester vol 8d p110 - MALCOLM William age 50
Philip
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The 1851 census has William Malcolm as a Widow age 42 born Manchester - living 1 Austin's Court
Please could you give a source and reference for this - I can't find it on FamilySearch. :(
Philip
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Here is a picture of the 1851 Census my brother found if it is a help BR Charlie
copyright image removed
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The 1851 census has William Malcolm as a Widow age 42 born Manchester - living 1 Austin's Court
Please could you give a source and reference for this - I can't find it on FamilySearch. :(
Philip
It is here Philip
Piece 2227, Folio 100, page 30
Threads merged.
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It certainly looks like the same William Malcolm as his son William Henry is with him.
So from what little there is about William, born Ireland c.1801.
Married & had 1 known child William Henry also born Ireland (incorrectly listed as Oldfield in 1841).
William & Seprina co-habited from sometime between 1834 & 1836 when first child born but separated by 1851 & probably by 1844 according to the rate book.
Does this sound right?
As an aside Hardmans St. & Cumberland St. were next to each other.
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It certainly looks like the same William Malcolm as his son William Henry is with him.
So from what little there is about William, born Ireland c.1801.
Married & had 1 known child William Henry also born Ireland (incorrectly listed as Oldfield in 1841).
William & Seprina co-habited from sometime between 1834 & 1836 when first child born but separated by 1851 & probably by 1844 according to the rate book.
Does this sound right?
I agree that
William Henry was MALCOLM, not OLDFIELD.
William and son William Henry in Austin Court on the 1851 census (actually born in Ireland, not Manchester).
The 1851 census has William senior as age 42, widowed. If this is correct, it pushes his birth to c1809. But - if the birthplace on the 1851 census is wrong, should we trust tha age?
There doesn't seem to be a good reason why Sebrina OLDFIELD (nee TAYLOR) would be widowed in Manchester in 1833, would (as a widow with three young sons), meet and marry William MALCOLM, give birth to William Henry c1834 in Ireland, then be back in Manchester by 1837.
I think it is more likely that William MALCOLM was born in Ireland (c1800-1809?). He married (unknown), had at least one child (William Henry born c1834 in Ireland), was widowed, was in Manchester by c1836 where he and his young son moved in with Sebrina and her children.
If this hypothesis is correct, it means that bigfish033 is not descended from Sebrina Taylor.
Philip
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Also the 1851 status of both as widow & widower would be correct as both their respective spouses had died & not being married she would be buried as Oldfield not Malcolm.
So who is the poster descended from?
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Hi i am descended from William by the following route : My mother Maureen> James Edward Malcolm Malcolm 1916-1969 > Albert Malcolm 1890-1975> George Henry Malcolm 1862-1896> William Henry Malcolm 1837 (baptized at 3 but no death records found)> William Malcolm 1801? (according to William Henry, George Frederick and Sarah Ann baptism records Mother Seprina Malcolm and other records Seprina -)
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I think the William Henry Baptism is a bit of a red herring.
He was done at age 3 when William & Seprina were together.
Seprina is unlikely to be William H's mother because he was born in Ireland when Seprina was in England with her husband & children.
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It has been a nightmare with these Malcolms :-/ the paper trail is messed up Also with William Malcoms son William Henry, he married a Sarah Hankinson in Manchester in 1860 but then she married another man called James Reddett in 1871 but then the William Henry trail also goes cold, i don't know where he went or when he died.
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It has been a nightmare with these Malcolms :-/ the paper trail is messed up Also with William Malcoms son William Henry, he married a Sarah Hankinson in Manchester in 1860 but then she married another man called James Reddett in 1871 but then the William Henry trail also goes cold, i don't know where he went or when he died.
marriage Sep qtr 1861 Manchester vol 8d p180 - 4 on page including MALCOLM William Henry and HANKINSON Sarah
marriage Mar qtr 1871 Manchester vol 8d p180 - 4 on page including READETT James and MALCOLM Sarah
I couldn't find William Henry MALCOLM on the 1861 census (FamilySearch transcript), although I did find:
RG9 2932/27 p7 - Junction Street Manchester
Susannah Hankinson, head, 47, wid, born Thetford, Cheshire
Thomas Hankinson, son, 23, unm, slater, born Manchester
Sarah Hankinson, daughter, 21, unm, cotton weaver, born Manchester
George Malcolm, boarder, 25, commercial traveller, born Manchester.
As Susannah Hankinson is with James and Sarah Readett on the 1871 census with Sarah's son George Malcolm this is surely the same Sarah.
BUT - still no sign of William Henry MALCOLM after Sep qtr 1861!
I can't see a matching death in England/Wales after 1861
A look at the 1871 and 1881 England/Wales census transcripts (for William MALCOLM born 1830-1840 with birthplace Ireland or Manchester) showed nothing
So did he go back to Ireland, or emigrate, change his name or just go missing?
Can Rootschatters solve this mystery?
Philip
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It is a huge mystery :-D i know William Henry sister Sarah Ann Seprina Malcolm died as a child of fever and was buried at Rusholme road cemetery (no longer there) so that is a dead end (pardon the pun). William Henry`s brother George Frederick has been a well documented chap and everything is good with him, William H son George was on the 1871 census as George Malcolm (Readett) stepson. I just can find any more on William and William Henry they seem to appear for a while then vanish :-/ Thank you great wise owls of Rootschat.com for helping me. My brother and i have been ripping out our hair with these two :-D
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I notice on William H's marriage cert. he lists himself as a traveller. This would mean commercial.
On that basis he could have died anywhere including overseas. Commercial travellers often travelled into Europe.