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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: oldohiohome on Wednesday 02 May 18 17:14 BST (UK)
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On May 23, 1856, Ellen Riley of Mt Pleasant St, Preston, Lancashire, was the informant on the death record of Jane Carrigan, widow of James Carrigan. Jane was age 44, and also of Mt Pleasant St.
I am looking for the parents, maiden name, etc of Ellen Riley. I am fairly sure that Jane Carrigan was my wife's ggg grandmother, nee Gleason. Was Ellen Riley Jane's sister or a relative?
Ellen's 1861 household seems to be this one:
1861 Census of England, Parish: Preston
Municipal Borough: Preston Municipal Ward: St Georges
Parlamentary borough: Preston
Ecclesiastical district: St Georges
Registrar's district: Preston Union
Registration district: Preston
Town of Preston, County: Lancashire, Country: England
Series: RG09, Piece: 3131, Enum. District: 25, Page: 23
Family: 167, Line: 1, Image: 39
on Mount Pleasant St
Ellen Riley, head, 38, widow, housekeeper, born in Ireland
Michael McCaffery, son in law, 32, married, worsted sorter, born in Ireland
Catherine McCaffery, 22, wife, spinner, born in Ireland
Patrick McCaffery, 16, boarder, worsted tenter, born in Ireland
Mary C McCaffery, 4, grand daughter, scholar, born in Preston, Lancashire
Susanna McCaffery, 9m? , grand daughter, infant, born in Preston, Lancashire
Margaret McGrath, 39, single, boarder, worsted weaver, born in Ireland
Edward Rigby, 23, boarder, married, worsted weaver, born in Leyland, Lancashire
Bridget Rigby, 28, married, cotton weaver, born in Ireland
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Jane (Gleason) Carrigan's son James' household in 1861 is this one:
1861 Census of Lancashire, England
Civil Parish of Preston, Town of Preston
Registration and sub-registration district of Preston
Ecclesiastical Parish of St. George
ED 25, household 183, piece 3131, folio 25, page 44
Street: Mount Pleasant
James Carrigan, 23, head, married, piecer, born in Ireland
Betsey Carrigan, 21, wife, married, housewife, born in Ireland
Catherine Carrigan, 5, daughter, scholar, born in Preston, Lancashire
Margaret Carrigan, 2mo, daughter, infant, born in Preston, Lancashire
same house:
Dennis Carrigan, 18, boarder, single 18, piecer, born in Ireland
May or Mary Carrigan, 20, single, worsted weaver, born in Ireland
same house: Patrick Muney, wife Ann, daughter Mary. also Margaret Dean, son William
Bonus points to anyone who knows how Dennis and Mary Carrigan are related to James, if they are. James and his family are in Boston, Massachusetts by 1865, but I have not found Dennis or Mary in Boston.
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Looking at susanna.
MCCAFFREY, SUSANNA LILLY
GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 448
MCCAFFREY, MARY ELLEN LILLY
GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 453
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Lilly would then be the maiden name of Catherine McCaffery, daughter of Ellen Riley and wife of Michael, both in Ellen's household. Which means "Lilly" could be a poor transcription of Riley, or else Ellen was married to a Mr Lilly before she married a Mr Riley.
If I have it straight, that is.
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Michael MCaffery married Catherine Lilly in Preston in 1855
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Thank you. That explains the mother's maiden name of Lilly on Susanna and Mary Ellen McCaffrey's birth records, as posted by PaulineJ.
Would an English marriage record of that era give the woman's maiden name if it was her second marriage?
I'm asking because now I will be looking for an Ellen, unknown maiden name, marrying a Mr Lilly, presumably in Ireland, since her daughter Catherine was born there. Then she, as Mrs Ellen Lilly, marries a Mr McCaffery. If she married McCaffery in England, and the record gave her maiden name, I would find it out that way.
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on freeBMD I found an Ellen Lilly marrying in the 2nd qtr of 1848 to either Joseph Blanchard or James Collins:
Marriages Jun Quarter 1848
Blanchard Joseph Preston 21 450
Collins James Preston 21 450
Lilly Ellen Preston 21 450
SMITH Ann Preston 21 450
but no Ellen Blanchard marriages from Mar 1848 to Dec 1856
and no Ellen Collins from Mar 1848 to Dec 1856
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on freeBMD I found an Ellen Lilly marrying in the 2nd qtr of 1848 to either Joseph Blanchard or James Collins:
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk shows it was James Collins
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Would an English marriage record of that era give the woman's maiden name if it was her second marriage?
I'm asking because now I will be looking for an Ellen, unknown maiden name, marrying a Mr Lilly, presumably in Ireland, since her daughter Catherine was born there. Then she, as Mrs Ellen Lilly, marries a Mr McCaffery. If she married McCaffery in England, and the record gave her maiden name, I would find it out that way.
I think you are a bit confused here. It was Catherine Lilly who married Michael McCafferey - not Ellen Riley
Ellen is shown as Riley and if her age in 1861 is to be believed - and assuming she was definitely Catherine's mother - she was only about 16 when she gave birth and Catherine may have been illegitimate
If so - you are looking for a Lilly/Riley marriage in Ireland
was the informant on the death record of Jane Carrigan, widow of James Carrigan. Jane was age 44,
The 1861 entry you quote is for a James & Betsey Carrigan so how do they link to Jane?
Anybody could report a death - why do you think they could be related?
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Another possibility is that Ellen Riley was stepmother to Michael McCaffery. Son-in-law could also mean step-son.
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www.lancashirebmd.org.uk shows it was James Collins
Thank you, I didn't know about that site. And yes, I was confused in Reply #4. I caught the mistake a few hours later, but I already had shut things down for the night, or so I thought.
Since I didn't find an Ellen Collins marrying a Mr Riley in England after 1848, that Ellen Lilly - James Collins couple are probably someone else. In fact there is a James Collins (30) and Ellen (35) at 32 Canal St, Preston, in 1851, that might be them.
At any rate, I came to the same conclusion you did, that I am looking for an Ellen Lilly - Mr. Riley marriage in Ireland. And possibly an earlier marriage of Ellen (unknown maiden name) to a Mr Lilly. So back to the Irish records I go, but at least with another surname to help narrow things down.
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I don't know if Ellen Riley and Jane Carrigan are related. Ellen could have been a neighbor or landlady. That is what I why I am trying to find Ellen's maiden name. The more information I have when I start going through the Irish parish registers, the better off I will be.
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As for James and Elizabeth Carrigan who were living on Mt Pleasant St in Preston in 1861:
James is the son of Jane Gleason and James Carrigan. This I am sure of, from the American records. So a Jane Carrigan, widow of James, dying on Mt Pleasant St five years earlier, would be a likely candidate for being his mother.
-- Ed H
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1871 census has Michael and Catherine living in Glasgow with mother in law Ellen LILLY
I wonder if that is a mistranscription in 1861. It is poorly written. Or an enumerator mistake translating an Irish accent
Edit - ignore that last bit if an Ellen Riley was the death informant it is likely to be correct name.
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1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.
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1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.
If head of household was James Muldoon, address was Back Friday Street. Ellen's age was 40 something, 45?
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1871 census has Michael and Catherine living in Glasgow with mother in law Ellen LILLY
I wonder if that is a mistranscription in 1861. It is poorly written. Or an enumerator mistake translating an Irish accent
Edit - ignore that last bit if an Ellen Riley was the death informant it is likely to be correct name.
Right. I thought about the mistranscription angle also when I saw only the census, but Ellen keeps turning up as Lilly in other records.
The death record says:
the mark of Ellen Riley, present at the death, Mount Pleasant, Preston
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1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.
So in 1851 Ellen Lilley is 45 and married. In 1856 she is known as Ellen Riley on Jane Carrigan's death record, and in 1861 she is Ellen Riley, widowed, age 38. Maybe if Ellen's husband Mr Lilly died between 1851 and 1856, she went back to her maiden name on the records. Or it is a complete mystery.
Either way, her marriage(s) most likely took place in Ireland. I'm going to try ancestry.com at the library, I think they have indexed the Irish Catholic parish registers. If not, I will look around for a site that has.
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1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.
So in 1851 Ellen Lilley is 45 and married. In 1856 she is known as Ellen Riley on Jane Carrigan's death record, and in 1861 she is Ellen Riley, widowed, age 38. Maybe if Ellen's husband Mr Lilly died between 1851 and 1856, she went back to her maiden name on the records. Or it is a complete mystery.
Either way, her marriage(s) most likely took place in Ireland. I'm going to try ancestry.com at the library, I think they have indexed the Irish Catholic parish registers. If not, I will look around for a site that has.
But she is Lilly in 1871 in Glasgow
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I know. Either that destroys my theory or she started using Lilly again, since she was living with her daughter.
Then again we don't know who the informant was on the 1871 Census in Glasgow either. In 1856 and 1861, Ellen was probably speaking for herself, as head of the house. In 1871 it could have been her daughter or son-in-law, both more likely to refer to her as Lilly.
What worries me more is finding her in 1851 in Preston without Jane Carrigan in the household, and not on Mt Pleasant St either. It is looking more like Ellen and Jane are not related. I was hoping to have another relative to help identify the whole family when I get to the parish registers.
It also bothers me that the Carrigans aren't in Preston in 1851. The family said they spent some time in Wales after leaving Ireland and before they went to Preston. But I haven't found them there either.
Jane's daughter-in-law Elizabeth and the three children arrived in the US in 1864, and the whole family is in Boston in 1865, so they must not have been in Preston for long. James and Elizabeth were married there in 1858.
Are there city directories for Preston for that time period? I haven't Googled it, so I am kind of asking someone else to do the work for me, but I've wondered if there were.
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General & Commercial Directories of Preston. Produced by Preston Historical Society. Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society have it in stock. Earliest year in the collection 1869. I don't know if there were earlier editions.
Baines, Pigot's and Slater's are names of directories of Lancashire in 19th century, e.g. Slater's Commercial directory of Lancashire 1851. Coverage varies. Some only list notable people, business owners and those who held property.
For a longer list see RootsChats Links - Lancashire directories.
Take a look at Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society.
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Thank you. :)
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Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society have transcriptions of some Preston Catholic church registers. St. Ignatius, opened in 1830s was one of them. See the Society website.
Burials register at St. Wilfred in Preston town centre has an independent website. Graveyard was closed 1854.
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Thanks again. Preston parish registers were on my list of things to look for.