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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: tink.tech on Saturday 05 May 18 09:37 BST (UK)
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I'm slightly lost and have been looking for my next link for 3 days not familiar with Scotland records, hope someone can help last definite record is in Durham, England 1971 census.
information I have is
Father- James Tannahill b: 1833 Fenwick
Mother- Ann b: abt 1835 Paisley
children-
Mary Ann b 1856 Fenwick
Agnes b:1860 Bridgeton
James b:1863 Bridgeton
william b:1868 Durham
5 further children also born in Durham I have their details, just nothing before this have found some baptisms on scotslandspeople that seem to match children but Agnes mother different surname.
there are some children missing as 1911 census states 13 children born 7 living 6 died married 55yrs
no marriage found around 1856
any thoughts, hints or tips where to look please
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Have you got Ann's maiden name?
The GRO index has the youngest , Charles, b. 1871, Gateshead with MMN as McCafferty
Census ref in Gateshead : RG10/5056/71/45
Gadget
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There's this birth in Bridgetown for daughter Catherine:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQD6-YZS
Gadget
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don't know why I didn't think to check other children on freebmd thanks for the reminder
anges baptism says maccafferty
but mary ann and james mother is carr/kerr
I know that kerr/carr can be the same name but not sure if they are a variation of McCafferty or are they wrong person??
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James's birth cert of 1863 (MMN Carr) has the marriage as June 3 1855, Newcastle, England
Looks like the same person - could they have used both surnames - McCafferty and Carr?
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I don't have that catherine
but I do have one in gateshead 1880
other children born in england may help
charles 1871
andrew 1874
robert 1876
catherine 1880
kate 1881
all born gateshead
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GRO marriage index has James Tannahill marrying Ann McCafferty Q2, 1855, Newcastle upon Tyne, 10b. 222
Add -should give fathers's names.
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I guess it possible they could have used both.
I'll check out familysearch for further records thanks
so if they married in Newcastle upon Tyne they must have moved back and forth must look to see if i can find them on 1861 census
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I cannot find a marriage for James Tannahill to Ann in Scotland but I did find the following.
1841 – Age 10 Fenwick + John 45, Agnes 40 & Agnes 11
1851 – Age 20 Ayrshire, there is also Anne Anderson 21 both born Fenwick, both servants.
1861 – age 28 Bridgeton, + Ann 26, Marion 4 & Agnes 0
MARY ANN TANNAHILL 1856 Fenwick not on 1861 census
Colin
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ColC- they married in Newcastle upon Tyne - see my earlier posts - #4 and 5.
I guess it possible they could have used both.
I'll check out familysearch for further records thanks
so if they married in Newcastle upon Tyne they must have moved back and forth must look to see if i can find them on 1861 census
If you purchase the marriage cert from GRO- ref that I've given, it will give their fathers's names.
On one of the child's registrations, it has James as a Carter so would fit with them moving around. Obviously settled in Co. Durham in late 60s. That they married in Newcastle also suggests that he moved around.
Gadget
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There is a baptism for a James Tannahill, 35 May 1827, Fenwick, Parents - William Tannahill and Jean Hepburn.
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Hi Gadget, I note your Newcastle marriage and one tree agrees with you and it seems likely, however there is no 1861 census in England or Scotland on An......y but on SP there is the one noted in my post, the link seems to be Agnes born 1860, she appears in the above mentioned tree.
The 1841 census also notes Agnes Tannahill age 40, my guess is that she is the mother of James, which as Agnes born 1860 was the second child it fits the Scottish naming pattern.
Regards
Colin
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I have just had a thought, perhaps Mary Ann born 1855 Fenwick was born out of wedlock, James hot foots it to Newcastle?
Only Mary Ann's record will answer the question.
Colin
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The 1841 does look a good one. The info is strange for birthplace as only the first and last entry of the household has 'y' to born county, others are blank - I looked at original to check :-\
I wonder if they were RC? Though I've not found them so far in the RC records on SP.
Gadget
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Just been looking at Durham Records Online
East Cemetery, Gateshead
Burials
7 October 1870 Charles Tannahill of Church Walk, aged 5, son of James Tannahill
15 April 1873 Charles Tannahill of Church Walk, aged 2, son of James Tannahill
Also some childrem of a James and a John Tannahill later on in the century - I think they could be James (b. Fenwick)'s sons' children.
BUT I've found this later burial:
25 Oct 1904 James Tannahill of 2 Church Street, age 8 months, son of William J Tannahill, Roman Catholic
This might explain why we can't find earlier baptisms in Scotland as not all are recorded on SP.
Gadget
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Looks like James's baptism under Other Churches:
Fenwick Associate -
26 August 1830 James Tannahill. Father John Tannahill
Others at same church/father
1834 - Andrew
1836 - Alexander
Gadget
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Roman Catholic baptism that looks possible for Ann
Paisley, St Mirin's
3 March 1835 Ann Mcafferty d of Charles Mcafferty and Catherine Donnolly
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However, throwing this one into the pot as interesting:
1841
Millerston, Paisley
Household of Peter Walch b. Ireland
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John Mcafferty, m,30, b. Ireland
Barney, m,30, b. -do-
Jennet, 10, b. -do-
Charles, 6, b. -do-
Ann, 3, b. Renfrewshire
John, under 1, b. -do-
Gadget
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Col -
Re marriage . This from James 1863's birth reg
Ann's MN seems to vary between Carr and Mc*afferty throughout.
Gadget
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Also on FS from GRO, previously referred to:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D3H-6XY
Gadget
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Not quite sure why you're concerned about finding Mary Ann's birth, Col - she's here in Oct 1856, Fenwick. 15 months after the N/c marriage.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5Q-9JP
Note that Ann goes by Carr/Kerr/Mc*afferty throughout her childbearing years.
Gadget
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Col - Mary Ann is down as Marion on the 1861.
William Street, Calton, Bridgeton
James Tannahill, 28, carter , b.Fenwick, Ayrshire
Ann, 26, b.Paisley, Renf
Marion, 4, b. Fenwick, Ayrshire - I think this is this Mary Ann
Agnes, under 1, b. Glasgow
Gadget
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Just been revising the birth order of children:
Mary Ann
Catherine
Agnes
James
Charles (died 1870 aged 5) GRO birth reg South Shields, Sept Q, 1865. MMN Carr)
William
Charles(died 1873 aged 2)
Andrew
Robert
Catherine
This suggests that, if using the Scots naming conventions, James' parents would be the James and Agnes (identified) and Ann's would be either Mary Ann or Catherine and Charles.
Gadget
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Blimey thank you so much I have had a busy day with the children and only just got back online,gadget and colc you have been hard at it
I agree that mary ann is probably Marion 1961
I will try and look through this all more closely tonight
could you please explain the order of Scottish naming convention for future ref
thanks again
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could you please explain the order of Scottish naming convention for future ref
https://blog.findmypast.co.uk/traditional-scottish-naming-patterns-2115646700.html
It isn't always followed though.
Gadget
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thanks, gadget
where did you find James original birth record was it SP. I'm on ancestry and find my past at the moment but have not seen anything with that much detail.
many thank
helen
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Hi Helen
SP is the best for images of the records. I looked at the image there.
Family search ( https://www.familysearch.org/search ) have a considerable number of Scottish baptisms, births and marriages and census info for Scotland, so best to look there first, then go to SP. If you're careful it's very reasonable - much cheaper than buying an English cert.
I couuld let you have a copy of James's birth reg if you PM me an e-mail to send it to. Don't put it up on here - privacy.
Gadget
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thanks
I have found 3 baptisms in gatehead RC using latin name jocabi for james
have now have charles, andrew and robert
ann is using mccafferty maybe she changed it from carr/kerr depending how RC she wanted to be
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Freebmd incudes these 2 names
Marriage Jun 1855 Newcastle T. 10b 222
MCCAFFERY Ann
TANNAHILL James
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Freebmd incudes these 2 names
Marriage Jun 1855 Newcastle T. 10b 222
MCCAFFERY Ann
TANNAHILL James
I put that up a few pages ago, Ray, but glad you confirm :)
Gadget
Add - see replies #4 and 6
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;D Duh ;D
Well done Gadget.
I knew there were more posts to read ::)
R
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;D
The real puzzle is the way Ann's MN keeps changing - it's Carr/Kerr on some birth records and M*c*afferty on others - no consistency or pattern whatsoever - it happens in both the English and Scottish birth records.
Gadget
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I've maybe missed something but can't see the James and Agnes that you refer to under the Scottish naming pattern? The closest pairing I can see is a William Tannahill and Jean Hepburn in 1827 in Fenwick.
My Paternal Great Grandmother was a Tannahill (and, of course, that makes me and loads of others related to Robert Tannahill, the Paisley Poet, 1774-1810) and I'm trying to research many strands of the family but hadn't come across this couple before. Surprised that Ann even changed her maiden name from Catherine's birth in 1858 when she used McCafferty to Catherine's death in 1859 when she used Carr!
I see you found some records under RC records so it looks likely that Ann was RC as it is very unusual for Tannahills to be RC.
Carolineasb