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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: deoxy on Sunday 13 May 18 01:28 BST (UK)

Title: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Sunday 13 May 18 01:28 BST (UK)
Hello I can't find a marriage for Leonard John Rolls b. 1879 Wantage, Berkshire and Charlotte Hunt b. 1862 according to the 1939 register.
 Leonard married Rosa Collins in Newbury, Berkshire in 1901. Rosa and Leonard had a son Leonard John in 1904 Wantage, then he has a daughter Ethel in Wandsworth 1912 (Charlotte's), a daughter Mabel 1913 Wandsworth, (Charlotte's).
Then Lottie b. 1916 Wandsworth mother's name Charlotte Rolls formerly Collins instead of Hunt and the same for the birth of Frederick 1917 Wandsworth.
Next in 1920 is Albert George in Lambeth (Rosa's) and finally Dorothy 1922 Lambeth (Rosa's)
He dies in 1939 in Bournemouth and Charlotte is a widow living there with Frederick, George, Mabel and one other.  If anyone can make any sense of this it would be very helpful. Thanks. 
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 13 May 18 01:58 BST (UK)
So, I hope I haven’t got he wrong end of the stick here but... are you saying Charlotte b 1862 is the mother of children the first of whom is born in 1916 when she would have been 54?
How about the woman in the 1939 being a mother in law?
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Sunday 13 May 18 02:09 BST (UK)
Good point about the age. I had another look and I thought it said her age was 77 but it's her birth year...  Thanks.  I don't know why two of the birth certificates have Charlotte's first name and Rosa's surname...   ???
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 13 May 18 02:36 BST (UK)
I see Leonard John in 1911, married but  boarding, where is Leonard junior and presumably Rosa? (Or Charlotte?)
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 13 May 18 02:38 BST (UK)
Are these the births you see -

ROLLS, Leonard John mms    COLLINS
1904  SepQ WANTAGE  02C / 314

ROLLS, Ethel May   mms HUNT   
1912  MayQ WANDSWORTH  01D  / 1169 

ROLLS, Mabel mms       HUNT   
1913  JanQ   WANDSWORTH   01D  / 1113 

ROLLS, Lottie mms       HUNT   
1916  MayQ WANDSWORTH  01D / 1082 

ROLLS, Frederick Charles mms   HUNT 
1917  JanQ WANDSWORTH 01D / 915 

These last two births.....??
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Sunday 13 May 18 02:43 BST (UK)
On the actual certificates it has the mix of names...? I can't find Len jnr, Rosa or Charlotte in 1911.



Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 13 May 18 02:46 BST (UK)
1924 to 1928 its Rosa with him on the electoral roll
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Sunday 13 May 18 02:47 BST (UK)
Thanks. That's interesting.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 13 May 18 02:57 BST (UK)
Who is the informant on each birth cert?
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 13 May 18 03:05 BST (UK)
Where was Rosa from? And who were her parents?
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 13 May 18 03:08 BST (UK)
Also possibly?

ROLLS, Rosie Amelia  mms   COLLINS   
1902  DecQ NEWBURY   02C /242 

ROLLS, Lilian Marie Kathleen mms COLLINS   
1907  JanQ NEWBURY  02C /  269 
 
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 13 May 18 03:17 BST (UK)
Then Lottie b. 1916 Wandsworth mother's name Charlotte Rolls formerly Collins instead of Hunt and the same for the birth of Frederick 1917 Wandsworth.

Are you saying that you have these birth certificates and the GRO index is wrong?

ROLLS, Lottie mms       HUNT   
1916  MayQ WANDSWORTH  01D / 1082 

ROLLS, Frederick Charles mms   HUNT 
1917  JanQ WANDSWORTH 01D / 915 


Debra  :)
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 13 May 18 03:24 BST (UK)
To confirm, and from GRO site........these births, 1916 and 1917, have mms HUNT.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 13 May 18 07:25 BST (UK)

From 1939 Register, I see this -

ROLLS Charlotte   b. 8 Feb 1877     widow
ROLLS Mabel        b. 13 Mar 1913   single  (this later notated WILLIAMS)
ROLLS Frederick   b.  19 May 1917  single
ROLLS George      b. 25 Dec 1919  married
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 13 May 18 07:35 BST (UK)
And George’s dob does seem to match the later death of an Albert George so that puts paid to my theory that there were two families. Ie two different Leonard Johns. (There are enough of them around)
Given that he does seem to have had a sister Amelia. I think those two extra births Rosie Amelia and Lilian Marie Kathleen in Newbury are very likely to belong especially as I can’t find them in 1911 either !!!
Did Lottie die age 3 Christchurch, Hampshire?

is there a death for Rosa anywhere?
You didn’t give details about Rosa’s family. I had wondered if she was with them in 1911 and there has been a transcription error
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 13 May 18 07:40 BST (UK)
Bit of a smudge for George in 1939,  I don’t think you can be sure he is married
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Sunday 13 May 18 11:51 BST (UK)
Hello. I don't know who the informant was on the birth certificates. Someone else has them but I can ask. I don't know why it says Hunt on the GRO index... and something different on the certificate.  I'll have to get my own copies. 
I don't know anything about Rosa's family although I've tried finding out online. I remember seeing the wedding certifcate for her and Leonard a long time ago.  I've just lost a box of certificates while moving but I know it's here somewhere.  It might be in there.  Thanks for finding the two extra births for Rosa.
Yes Mabel married Thomas Williams.  Albert George married Elizabeth Merritt in Wantage as far as I can see from records and had four children. I'm just provisionally assuming that was right as his father came from Wantage although Albert George was born in Lambeth... , Frederick married Pauline Smith in Bournemouth. Thanks to all who are helping.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Monday 14 May 18 19:16 BST (UK)
Sorry the surname on the certificate was Hunt and was registered by the mother but the first name given was Rosa instead of Elizabeth  ???   Rosa's father was Peter Collins according to the marriage certificate and she was born in 1877.
I don't think George (Albert George) married Ellen Merritt. I found another Albert George living in Wantage who was probably the right person.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 14 May 18 20:36 BST (UK)
I’m getting confused. Can you please recap, in a list, just what names are on what certificates?
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Monday 14 May 18 20:54 BST (UK)
Rosie Amelia 1902 Newbury, no certificate but mothers maiden name Collins. Same for Leonard John 1904 Wantage and Lilian Marie Kathleen 1907 Newbury.

Ethel May 1912 Wandsworth mm name Charlotte Elizabeth Hunt, Mabel 1913 Wandsworth... same.

Lottie 1916 Wandsworth mm name Rosa Hunt and the same for Frederick Charles 1917 Wandsworth.

Albert George 1920 Lambeth, mm name Rosa Collins and the same for Dorothy Ruby 1922 Lambeth.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 15 May 18 09:12 BST (UK)
You, personally....not another researcher...... have these eight birth certificates?

Leonard John 1904 Wantage
Lilian Marie Kathleen 1907 Newbury.

Ethel May 1912 Wandsworth mm name Charlotte Elizabeth Hunt,
Mabel 1913 Wandsworth... same.

Lottie 1916 Wandsworth mm name Rosa Hunt
Frederick Charles 1917 Wandsworth.

Albert George 1920 Lambeth, mm name Rosa Collins
Dorothy Ruby 1922 Lambeth.

You do not have this certificate -
Rosie Amelia 1902 Newbury, no certificate but mothers maiden name Collins.

If not, then can you say what certificates you have.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Tuesday 15 May 18 09:25 BST (UK)
Nobody has the certificates for Rosie and Lilian so far. I don't have the rest of the certificates myself.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: deoxy on Tuesday 15 May 18 09:29 BST (UK)
I had missed Rosie and Lilian till you mentioned them and they appear to fit. Rosie I think is in the 1939 census.
Title: Re: Missing marriage
Post by: wivenhoe on Wednesday 16 May 18 03:25 BST (UK)

I have used GRO births search for the ROLLS births I have listed.

Each ROLLS birth gives given name / names for child, and family name for mother.

Where are you seeing  given names for mother and father for these births?

Describing your research interest - you are researching the origins of this woman, Charlotte ROLLS?


Register 1939
ROLLS Charlotte   b. 8 Feb 1877     widow
ROLLS Mabel        b. 13 Mar 1913   single  (this later notated WILLIAMS)
ROLLS Frederick   b.  19 May 1917  single
ROLLS George      b. 25 Dec 1919  married