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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: dorset_nomad on Sunday 13 May 18 07:02 BST (UK)
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I am researching a William Summers. He has born about 1805 +/- 2, to a William Summers and Wife Martha. They were a Poole family although wife Martha was from Quebec in Canada. Siblings were Martha b 1815, Robert Ash b 1818 and Mary Brouster b 1820. William junior was real but I cannot find records of birth, baptism, marriage or death. Family history puts him as a mariner by 1824. Any information would be helpful.
Nomad
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There is quite a bit of difference in age between William bn c1805 and sister Martha bn 1815. Could the family have been living elsewhere when he was born.
Where do you have William junior on census and where/when were his parents married
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William was baptised Feb 1819, SAINT JAMES, POOLE, DORSET.
Martha baptised 19 Mar 1815, SAINT JAMES, POOLE, DORSET.
Mary Broshster baptised 23 Jul 1820, SAINT JAMES, POOLE, DORSET.
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Hi Rosie. William the father was from Poole but married Martha his wife on 31st Dec 1803 in Quebec, Canada. It might be that William junior left England and so was out of English record. Family history has him "at sea" by twenty when he was orphaned along with his siblings
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I am trying to understand all this because William the father might very well have been involved with the campaign against the colonists in America that wanted representation at Parliament. The war of independence (1756/ 1763) and/ or the taking of Quebec from the French. Martha's parents were from York in Pennsylvania, later Quebec.
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I don't suppose this could be the marriage of William Jnr :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JV3S-WJW
Kay
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Hi Kay. That is very close but William would be 51 for this wedding. His mother's maiden name was Brouster or sometimes written Browster. Thanks anyway but I have to discount this.
Nomad
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William was baptised Feb 1819, SAINT JAMES, POOLE, DORSET.
Martha baptised 19 Mar 1815, SAINT JAMES, POOLE, DORSET.
Mary Broshster baptised 23 Jul 1820, SAINT JAMES, POOLE, DORSET.
Other indexes have him as Robert bapt Feb 1819
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Hi Rosie. Robert was the other sibling. Robert Ash Summers
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I wonder where William was between birth 1804/5 to being baptised in 1819.
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The image shows it was Robert Ash Summers bap 10 Feb 1819, not William.
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Hi Rosie. Robert was the other sibling. Robert Ash Summers
I realise that Robert was a sibling as per your first post but solidrock is showing a baptism of a William at that time. As far as I can see there is no baptism for a William in 1819 at Poole
The image shows it was Robert Ash Summers bap 10 Feb 1819, not William.
Thanks Jebber for confirming that ;D
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If dorset-nomad has no records of birth, marriage or death for William Jr,
what information have they got to prove his existence and his approximate date of birth.
There is an earlier William SUMMERS of Poole who was a mariner.
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That William is the father. He was lost at sea Nov 1824. Family has it that William junior was 20 and was a seaman then. That being true his birth is 1804/5. No records of any dBm so I feel he was not in England. Possibly Canada where his mother came from?
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What information does the Canadian marriage give for William senior
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Only that he was Presbyterian and they were married by licence, both aged about 22 years. One witness John HAIG, the other illegible.
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Thanks Jebber,
I was hoping for mention of his occupation and origins (wishful thinking ::) )
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The information I have comes from an uncle, long dead, who was a stickler for precision and accuracy. He states that William junior was 20 years old and at sea when his father, William Snr, went missing at sea. That was during a violent storm off the south coast UK, the night of 24th Nov 1824. To my mind this puts Junior's birth late 1804 to early 1805. I cannot place the mother Martha in England until the birth/ bap of Martha junior in 1815. I am beginning to suspect that William/ Martha stayed in America/ Canada for a while and then left William junior behind when they came to Poole. This would answer why no BMD for William junior in English records. That they were married under licence, in the premier protestant church in Quebec whilst in a sea of catholic French, indicates that Martha was not a congregation member/ Quebec resident. The treaty of Hubertusburg was signed not too long previously so English people, in Quebec, might have been keeping a low profile. I think some research into Martha's parents and a William as a late family addition, might be in order.
Just kicking ideas around.
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The information I have comes from an uncle, long dead, who was a stickler for precision and accuracy.
Did he back up his research with documentation :-\ There is a lot more information available now than when he would have done any research
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Hi Rosie. William the father was from Poole but married Martha his wife on 31st Dec 1803 in Quebec, Canada. It might be that William junior left England and so was out of English record. Family history has him "at sea" by twenty when he was orphaned along with his siblings
William sr's will is on Ancestry mentions younger children baptised in Poole and William jnr as between 20 and 21
added
sorry not will, it's an administration bond
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There's a second document where Martha Summers age 10 chooses her grandmother Mary Summers (widow) to be Curatix and apply for letters of administration.
Martha Summers signed it, good writing for a 10 year old
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In case anyone is looking for it Ancestry has put Dorset, England, Wills and Probates, 1565-1858 in "Court, Governmental & Criminal Records" section not the usual wills section
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Looks like Mary Summers the grandmother was buried in Poole on 9 Nov 1836 age 83
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Probably connected because Robert Ash master mariner was one of the people named on admin bond.
and Robert Ash Summers probably named after him.
Mary Summers sp full age married Robert Ash wid full age on 08 Jan 1814 at Poole, St James botp, by lic.
Witnesses: Geo. Hancock, Sarah Summers, Maria Summers, E. Summers, S. Simper.
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There's a marriage for a Martha Summers age 22 in Poole on 21 Nov 1837 by lic to John Hooper. No father's name given, but maybe they thought they didn't need to include it he was already dead. One witness is Mary Summers. Could be her age would be right
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A few other Summers marriages in the 1830/40s but none has a William Summers as a witness. Hoped we'd get a sighting or a mention in Poole after the admin bond. I can't see anything later applied for by one of the children when they came of age.
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Probably connected because Robert Ash master mariner was one of the people named on admin bond.
and Robert Ash Summers probably named after him.
Mary Summers sp full age married Robert Ash wid full age on 08 Jan 1814 at Poole, St James botp, by lic.
Witnesses: Geo. Hancock, Sarah Summers, Maria Summers, E. Summers, S. Simper.
As an aside. William Summers Snr and Robert Ash must have been close friends and shipmates. He and his wife had twins 26th July 1820. A boy Robert Ash and a daughter Mary Lambert Ash. Lambert was the maiden name of the curatrix/ guardian of the orphaned Summers children.
There's a marriage for a Martha Summers age 22 in Poole on 21 Nov 1837 by lic to John Hooper. No father's name given, but maybe they thought they didn't need to include it he was already dead. One witness is Mary Summers. Could be her age would be right
Hi Lizzie. This Martha would be the 10 years old who took out the admin bond/ guardianship docs and is my 2x G'Grandmother. The Mary would be her sister Mary Brouster Summers.
Back to the elusive William Summers. The admin bond is proof positive that he did exist (it was family hearsay previously) and gives a window of birth date. His parents were married in Quebec City 31st dec 1803 and assuming mother was not pregnant at marriage, William's birth date can be narrowed down to, from October 1804 to September 1805. That would also satisfy the over 20 and under 21 stated in the bond of 22nd June 1825.
I have tried all I know to get some traction on this data but found nothing. Could I ask you to look into your crystal ball once more?