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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Clelly on Sunday 13 May 18 07:50 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Would very much like to know what the following entry says. It is a birth record from Scotland in 1579. The surname of birth is SANDS.
Thanks so much.
Claire
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Here is what is visible:
18 October 1579
...day gatherit unto ye [pw?]___________________________________________xxx d [= 30 pence]
...sandes In ye brigend of barnehyll said Ane bairne baptisit callit
...uitnesses [Ritchart?] [Jak?] henry [Enyt?] In ye [fferr?]
My limited knowledge of Scotland says that Ane = one, not the name An(n)e. I may be wrong, but callit suggests otherwise.
There is more information in the dark area at the left. I think the child's forename is in there. The father's forename may also be there, before sandes.
There may be more information on the next line below the image. Does the part sentence relate to this or the next entry?
ADDED:
It's possible the word I have transcribed as said might be haid = had.
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Hi,
Wow, thanks so much.
No the next line relates to the following record and states the next date, 25th October 1579.
Thank you. I will work on finding the meaning of those words now.
All latin to me.
Thank you.
Claire
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The guts of it is:
[forename] sandes in the bridgend of barnhill [either: aforesaid or had] one bairn [= baby] baptised called
[forename] Witnesses etc
If you post a closeup on the dark area, we may be able to get the forenames.
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Hoping this is a better copy. Whole entry with the end and beginning of entries either side.
I tried to adjust lighting and clarity but can send original.
Claire
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It's a good image, Claire, but I can't make out any more.
Others may be able to do better.
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Thanks for what you have already read HorsleyDown.
We can now know what it says.
Thank you.
Claire
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Which parish is this?
The child's name is indeed hidden in the dark part of the page and "ane" is = "a". The word after "gatherit unto ye" is probably "puir" or a version of it - i.e. the poor who would eventually receive the collection.
The witnesses seem to be "in ye Ferry". If we knew the parish, it might suggest a possible location.
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Just wondering if this was Bridgend (Perth) by any chance?
Annie
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Just wondering if this was Bridgend (Perth) by any chance?
Annie
Yes, we believe it to be Perth.
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Which parish is this?
The child's name is indeed hidden in the dark part of the page and "ane" is = "a". The word after "gatherit unto ye" is probably "puir" or a version of it - i.e. the poor who would eventually receive the collection.
The witnesses seem to be "in ye Ferry". If we knew the parish, it might suggest a possible location.
Hi there,
Thank you for the further translation/reading.
We believe the record to be from Perth.
Claire
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This is like drawing teeth, try telling folk everything known/suspected, when posting!
Skoosh.
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Agree Skoosh!
There's a Barnhill (Dundee) i.e. Ferry could relate to Broughty Ferry?
Annie
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I'm unable to find a place near Bridgend in Perth named Ferry although it may have existed but now named something else.
Where was the Baptismal doc. from, which church?
I couldn't see an entry on SP hence my question.
Annie
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This is like drawing teeth, try telling folk everything known/suspected, when posting!
Skoosh.
Pardon Skoosh? I'm posting all information I have. More information is coming out by the hour so add it. Apologies if this isn't enough for you. Thanks for your worthwhile contribution anyway.
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I'm unable to find a place near Bridgend in Perth named Ferry although it may have existed but now named something else.
Where was the Baptismal doc. from, which church?
I couldn't see an entry on SP hence my question.
Annie
Hi Annie,
My cousin found the record in The National Records Office so I don't know a lot about it. We tried reading it ourselves and were having no luck and a Facebook group suggested posting it here.
I only know from the first translator that it said Barnhill Bridgend and I found a Barnhill in Perth. The family we are looking for is SANDS and by the time we know them (in the 1700s) they have land at the Port of Menteith.
Attached is the top of the record which is the only other information I have.
Hope that helps.
Claire
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The record you posted is not from Perth...
It's one I found earlier for Monifieth which is in Angus
SANDS PATRE... SANDS/
U
18/10/1579
310/10 87
Monifieth
Which I was discounting as I was looking for a Perth entry.
The 'U' above signifies the child was of unknown sex, strangely?
Annie
Add...I forgot to mention the reference to 'Ferry' is now likely to have been Broughty Ferry as I suggested earlier?
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Distance from Monifieth to Broughty Ferry is less than 3 miles.
Annie
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This is an old map, it actually shows 2 areas to the right named Barnhill with Monyfuith (Monifieth) in the middle of both.
The one nearest the bottom is closest to the water & looks to be near a bridge i.e. may have been named Barnhill, Bridgend to distinguish them apart & E. Ferry is directly to the left.
https://maps.nls.uk/pont/view/?id=pont26#zoom=5&lat=384&lon=3884&layers=BT
I also found this which I haven't read but if you do a google search using the quotes it will bring it up...
"The Synode, considering how profitable the Bridge of Monyfuith is, and necessar to the countrey, hes concludit, that the brethren of this"
This may be of interest too?
http://www.ancestor.abel.co.uk/Angus/Monifieth.html
Annie
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That looks to be this in modern times.
Yesterday I found a Burnhill/Barnhill in Perth as well.
It was a tall hill with a ruined tower on it. But now I can't find it. :(
Thanks for the map it is amazing.
Claire
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Here's an old map of the Barnhill (Perth)
https://maps.nls.uk/pont/view/?id=pont26#zoom=5&lat=2104&lon=521&layers=BT
There are better up-to-date maps I've looked at in the past.
I was born & bred Perth ;D
Annie
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Directly right from where it says Perth, Bridgend is in the middle, Barnhill just below but if you look above Bridgend you will see Scone Palace.
Annie
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That looks to be this in modern times.
Yesterday I found a Burnhill/Barnhill in Perth as well.
It was a tall hill with a ruined tower on it.
Thanks for the map it is amazing.
Claire
The hill with the tower was probably Kinnoull Hill?
Annie
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Yes, it was Kinnoull Hill but I am sure yesterday I saw a Barnhill nearby. There is a creek/river tributary downstream called Deuchny Burn. Don't know if that is linked.
Thanks again Annie. You're really good at this.
Claire
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I had a read over what's been covered so far.
Barnhill, Monyfuith/Monifieth (County of Angus)
https://maps.nls.uk/pont/view/?id=pont26#zoom=5&lat=384&lon=3884&layers=BT
Barnhill & Bridgend, Perth (County of Perth)
https://maps.nls.uk/pont/view/?id=pont26#zoom=5&lat=2104&lon=521&layers=BT
The wee map you posted is Bridgend, Perth heading to Moncrieff which is an area of Perth City, not to be confused with Monifieth, County of Angus nor Port of Mentieth, County of Stirling
Your Baptism took place in Monifieth, Angus
Annie
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Bridgend, Perth to Monifieth, Angus approx. 29 miles
Broughty Ferry, Angus to Monifieth approx. 2.2 miles
Annie
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Bridgend, Perth to Broughty Ferry, Angus approx. 26 miles
Annie