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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: nyteowl on Sunday 13 May 18 10:36 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am searching for information on a John Copeman who was partnered / married (no dates) with Ann Nickles Breaton, they had a child Sophia Copeman born 25 Jan 1803. Norwich, Norfolk
I have had no luck in finding any birth / death / wedding dates for this John Copeman, we think he was born around 1768.
Thankyou
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Possible marriage?
27 July 1788, St Michael Coslany, Norwich
John Copeman, of St Stephen, single man
+
Ann Breaton, of this parish, single woman
by banns
One of the witnesses may be a Mary Copeman
Image here (need to be logged in)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D133-WCB?i=1331&cc=1416598&cat=236427
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There's a burial at St Stephen Norwich, 7 Feb 1809
John Copeman, widower, 85 years
son of Philip Copeman and Mary Wright
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6PZH-1TC?i=121&cc=1416598&cat=618574
Wonderful info there!
Looks like this is the chap who left a will proved in the Archdeaconry of Norwich later that year, he was a staymaker.
You can see it here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN6-QNCN?i=96&cat=504379
Names sons including Philip and John.
Mention it just in case that son John might be your man who married Ann Breaton!
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One of the witnesses to that 1788 marriage was a Clabburn. Was it Ann? Not sure!
The possible baptisms to John and Ann following it are in various parishes in Norwich, including this one, name indexed as An Clabburn
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB9B-QR6
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Big Thanks Jonw65, I will check those links out I'm sure it will help heaps
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Got one more for you!
Norwich Consistory Court will of Ann Clabburn of Norwich, spinster, proved 1804
One of the beneficiaries is Ann, wife of John Copeman.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6PWZ-H7M?i=1528&cat=410095
Good luck with that!
John
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Your links helped me search even more, just found this one, which tells me a I was pretty correct with one daughter,
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRZF-G4N
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It's that Nickless name that I'm wondering about.
It's not on the BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939X-DTDR-X?i=156&wc=M62R-YWT%3A160239801%2C160815701%2C160876001%2C160239804&cc=1824688
It seems to be on the PR, but the image is very poor!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNF-WTBB?i=489&cat=306666
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FreeREG has Baptisms of children of JOHN/ANN;
ANN 13 Sep 1789, buried 18 Oct 1789
JOHN 07 Nov 1790
WILLIAM 05 Aug 1792
ANN CLABBORN 4 May 1794
MARIA 12 Jan 1800
SOPHIA 27 Feb 1803
Marriage of Ann Clabburn Copeman is on there also 1837, Father John, occp Carpenter
Ann CLABBURN, Spinster, buried 2 Nov 1804 age 81
May fit in somewhere;
John NICHLESS married Elizabeth CLABBURN 22 Nov 1761
Trish :)
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Just noticed the 1809 Will has John as a Staymaker, 1837 Marriage of Ann Clabburn Copeman has her Father as a Carpenter. ???
Also he was born c 1724 so very old to have Fathered Children up to 1803.
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Ann Clabburn Gedge who died 1870 has a 1871 Will, Sarah Fenn Copeman, Spinster, Neice is the Executrix.
She is easy to find 1861 Census.
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Baptism;
25 Jun 1765, St Clement, Norwich
ANN NICKLES Brereton, Parents THOMAS/JUDITH
(FreeREG)
Marriage,
Familysearch.Org;
21 April 1765, Staint Saviours, Norwich, Norfolk, England (Church Records)
Thomas BRERETON to Judith BERTEL
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Just noticed the 1809 Will has John as a Staymaker, 1837 Marriage of Ann Clabburn Copeman has her Father as a Carpenter. ???
Also he was born c 1724 so very old to have Fathered Children up to 1803.
Hi
I didn't suggest that he was the father of Ann Clabburn Copeman!
I just pointed out that there was a will of a John Copeman of St Stephen, who had a son John.
The father of Ann Clabburn Coleman was another John - hopefully he is the one who married Ann Breaton in 1788, and was said to be of the parish of St Stephen.
In other words, there might be a connection between the two Johns. Of course, there might not. It remains to be seen.
John
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So from that will we know that John Copeman who died in 1809 had a son Philip.
Who presumably is the Philip Copeman baptized at St Stephen, 6 May 1751.
Parents John and Mary
Then there was John, bap 16 August 1752 at St Stephen.
So the question is, is he the John who married Ann Breaton? Don't know. He would have been about 36.
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The marriage of John + Mary must be
John Copeman + Mary Frankland, 3 July 1750, St Stephen
by licence it seems. There should be an image of the bond and/or allegation here, but it's not working at the moment
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFPM-NJN
What we need is the death/burial of our original John. Because nyteowl estimates him born around 1768, which is obviously way different to the son of John the staymaker.
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The only likely burial of a John Copeman in Norwich, indexed from the parish registers, is 7 March 1830, at St Helen
Age 77, abode Great Hospital
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DR84-S?i=444&cc=1416598&cat=537037
An Ann Copeman buried at St Helen, 7 May 1846
Age 79, abode Great Hospital
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRZH-2Q8?i=476&cc=1416598&cat=537037
Compared to Ann Nickles Brereton, whose baptism trish found in 1765. It's close.
On age, John buried 1830 could well be the son of John the staymaker.
Here is that Ann in 1841, residing at The Great Hospital, Norwich St Helen
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M79L-2KC
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Indexes of BT's have burials for John Copemans in Norwich in 1816 and 1824, with rough birth years of 1772 and 1773, which seem too young for that marriage in 1788.
John
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Marriage of Ann Clabburn Copeman is on there also 1837, Father John, occp Carpenter
It could be worth looking at the apprenticeship records, 1710 to 1811, which are online.
There aren't vast numbers of John Copemans, which could be good because I can see indexed
Jno Copeman, apprenticed in 1770 to a carpenter in East Dereham, Norfolk
and there's also a record of the apprenticeship of Henry Watson to Jno Copeman, Carpenter, in Norwich in 1793.
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Many Thanks for the answers everyone, I will sort though and see if I can solve the riddle , as they say.
Cheers
Joann
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Sorry jonw65 I didnt mean to offend you and of course you never said that that John was the Father of Ann Clabburn Copeman.
Please excuse the way I phrased that.
There its lots of extra info that has come in that I will read now.
Trish :)
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I'm not offended, honestly Trish!
Yes, there's lots of stuff now, it's still very speculative with John though. But more certain about Ann, now that you have found her baptism - plenty for nyteowl to be getting on with on her side.
John
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Thanks John I felt bad, so happy now ;)