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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Sunnyhill on Monday 14 May 18 14:31 BST (UK)
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This is my grandfather's brother, b 7 March 1878 Tannaghmore North, son of William Cassells and Elizabeth McBride
He married an Elizabeth [surname unkown] and died in 1953, she in 1950. Both are buried in Belfast City Cemetery, last address 52 Braemar Street, Belfast.
They had children Cassie [m Jim Montgomery and d 1994 Belfast], Elizabeth b 1904 Motherwell, Scotland, and Samuel
Elizabeth m John McDowell and died 1989 in Belfast
Would like to know any details of the family if anyone can help.
Thanks
David
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Hi David, Scotland's People have the family on the 1911 census, living in Hamilton. I can also see what appear to be the children's births ,Elizabeth Laird Cassels 1905 Holytown, Samuel Cassels 1907 Hamilton, Catherine Cassels 1910 Hamilton. I only looked at the index which is free to view,if you want further details such as the mother MS you would need to view one of the children's BC, this would also give date and place of the parents marriage as further confirmation.
Scotland's People - free to join and view index,you have to buy credits to view/ download certificates but prices are very reasonable.
Hope this helps Val
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if you want further details such as the mother MS you would need to view one of the children's BC, this would also give date and place of the parents marriage as further confirmation.
If they were married in Scotland their marriage certificate will tell you the full names of both sets of parents including the couple's mothers' maiden surnames.
If they were married in Ireland you can look for the marriage certificate at https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/, though the certificate won't tell you the names of their mothers.
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Oh great, I didn't think to look at the census on there :-\
Thanks very much!
Hi David, Scotland's People have the family on the 1911 census, living in Hamilton. I can also see what appear to be the children's births ,Elizabeth Laird Cassels 1905 Holytown, Samuel Cassels 1907 Hamilton, Catherine Cassels 1910 Hamilton. I only looked at the index which is free to view,if you want further details such as the mother MS you would need to view one of the children's BC, this would also give date and place of the parents marriage as further confirmation.
Scotland's People - free to join and view index,you have to buy credits to view/ download certificates but prices are very reasonable.
Hope this helps Val
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What exactly are you looking to find out?
~The family of the your grandfathers nieces and nephews (Cassie, Elizabeth and Samuel?)
Northern Ireland records aren't available online for births unless over 100 years old.
You would need to visit PRONI (Public Records office in Northern Ireland)
There is a forum I have found useful a few times
http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?board=20.0
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if you want further details such as the mother MS you would need to view one of the children's BC, this would also give date and place of the parents marriage as further confirmation.
If they were married in Scotland their marriage certificate will tell you the full names of both sets of parents including the couple's mothers' maiden surnames.
If they were married in Ireland you can look for the marriage certificate at https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/, though the certificate won't tell you the names of their mothers.
Thanks, I paid for the census record and birth records of Samuel and Catherine on Scotland's people. The birth record stated that they were married in Belfast on 3rd Sept 1901and her maiden name was Dickson but can't see a record for that on NI Direct or Irishgenealogy sites
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What exactly are you looking to find out?
~The family of the your grandfathers nieces and nephews (Cassie, Elizabeth and Samuel?)
Northern Ireland records aren't available online for births unless over 100 years old.
You would need to visit PRONI (Public Records office in Northern Ireland)
There is a forum I have found useful a few times
http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?board=20.0
Thanks, I have used the Belfast forum, will try that. Yes, any BDMs or other info about the family would be good but I am in Australia so can't visit PRONI. Have found out [through a relative] about the family of daughter Elizabeth and Cassie had no children. Don't know what became of Samuel jnr.
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... Don't know what became of Samuel jnr ...
52 Braemar Street in Belfast was the address recorded for a 24 year old Samuel Cassells who married 28 year old Margaret Emily Forster/Foster in St. Patrick's Church of Ireland, Jordanstown, on Christmas Eve 1931. Bachelor Samuel was recorded as a stereotype operator, father given as Samuel Cassells, a farmer. Spinster Margaret Emily was recorded as a domestic servant living at Rosemount Cottage, Greenisland, the daughter of William Forster/Foster, a farmer. The couple are buried in Belfast City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension, last residence stated as 68 Glenmachan Street, Samuel's death record gives his occupation as stereotyper:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4d/
Belfast street directories on the 'Lennon Wylie' website corroborate the addresses for Samuel senior and junior:
Braemar Street
1932: 52. Cassells, S., watchman
1943: 52. Cassells, S., watchman
1951: 52. Cassells, S.
Glenmachan Street
1943: 68. Cassells, Samuel, printer
1951: 68. Cassells, Samuel, printer
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/index.htm
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That's him! Thanks a mill. :)
... Don't know what became of Samuel jnr ...
52 Braemar Street in Belfast was the address recorded for a 24 year old Samuel Cassells who married 28 year old Margaret Emily Forster/Foster in St. Patrick's Church of Ireland, Jordanstown, on Christmas Eve 1931. Bachelor Samuel was recorded as a stereotype operator, father given as Samuel Cassells, a farmer. Spinster Margaret Emily was recorded as a domestic servant living at Rosemount Cottage, Greenisland, the daughter of William Forster/Foster, a farmer. The couple are buried in Belfast City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension, last residence stated as 68 Glenmachan Street, Samuel's death record gives his occupation as stereotyper:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4d/
Belfast street directories on the 'Lennon Wylie' website corroborate the addresses for Samuel senior and junior:
Braemar Street
1932: 52. Cassells, S., watchman
1943: 52. Cassells, S., watchman
1951: 52. Cassells, S.
Glenmachan Street
1943: 68. Cassells, Samuel, printer
1951: 68. Cassells, Samuel, printer
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/index.htm
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The Rootschat link won't open??
... Don't know what became of Samuel jnr ...
52 Braemar Street in Belfast was the address recorded for a 24 year old Samuel Cassells who married 28 year old Margaret Emily Forster/Foster in St. Patrick's Church of Ireland, Jordanstown, on Christmas Eve 1931. Bachelor Samuel was recorded as a stereotype operator, father given as Samuel Cassells, a farmer. Spinster Margaret Emily was recorded as a domestic servant living at Rosemount Cottage, Greenisland, the daughter of William Forster/Foster, a farmer. The couple are buried in Belfast City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension, last residence stated as 68 Glenmachan Street, Samuel's death record gives his occupation as stereotyper:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4d/
Belfast street directories on the 'Lennon Wylie' website corroborate the addresses for Samuel senior and junior:
Braemar Street
1932: 52. Cassells, S., watchman
1943: 52. Cassells, S., watchman
1951: 52. Cassells, S.
Glenmachan Street
1943: 68. Cassells, Samuel, printer
1951: 68. Cassells, Samuel, printer
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/index.htm
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The Rootschat link won't open?? ...
Odd, the RootsChat link (to their burial records) is working for me. ???
Alternatively, try these separate links to their burial records:
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7189.455
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7131.34
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Thanks very much Gaffy, opened it up in the end. I have had a bit of trouble getting into the Belfast burial site lately. Where did you find the information about his marriage?
The Rootschat link won't open?? ...
Odd, the RootsChat link (to their burial records) is working for me. ???
Alternatively, try these separate links to their burial records:
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7189.455
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7131.34
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... Where did you find the information about his marriage? ...
The information is in the civil record of marriage.
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Thank you again Gaffy and all for help with this.
Samuel Cassells - spelled Cassels on his birth cert, which I found on Scotland's People - was born 28 Oct 1907 in Hamilton, Scotland. It shows his parents as Samuel Cassels and Elizabeth Dickson and states they were married 3rd Sept 1901 in Belfast, but I can't find a record of this marriage. Also looking for a record of the marriage of his sister Elizabeth b 1904 Motherwell, Scotland to John McDowell. [I looked in Scotland's People]. Their first child was b Belfast 1921. Thanks for any suggestions.
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John McDowell m.1919 Lily Castles- her father listed as John not Samuel-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09680/5511072.pdf
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John McDowell m.1919 Lily Castles- her father listed as John not Samuel-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09680/5511072.pdf
aah great, good on you!
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I think you've gotten a bit muddled?
Lily Castles gives age as 22 on marriage certificate and father as John.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09680/5511072.pdf
Another Castles family-
Note: one of the children has Laird as middle name-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Cromac/Auburn_Street/158323
Same family in 1901- parents Hames & Isabella-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Pottinger/Finvoy_Street/1220462
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I think you've gotten a bit muddled?
Lily Castles gives age as 22 on marriage certificate and father as John.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09680/5511072.pdf
Another Castles family-
Note: one of the children has Laird as middle name-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Cromac/Auburn_Street/158323
Same family in 1901- parents Hames & Isabella-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Pottinger/Finvoy_Street/1220462
Hmm yes, not sure what is going on there. Pretty sure about Elizabeth who m John McDowell being daughter of Samuel.
The family from Auburn Street are my cousins too thanks :)
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I don't see how the Elizabeth Laird Cassells born 1904 in Scotland (daughter of Samuel) can be the 22 year old Lily Castles married in 1919 to John McDowell. Your ELC would only have been 15 in 1919. As well as the age problem, the 1919 marriage certificate lists Lily's father as John not Samuel.
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I don't see how the Elizabeth Laird Cassells born 1904 in Scotland (daughter of Samuel) can be the 22 year old Lily Castles married in 1919 to John McDowell. Your ELC would only have been 15 in 1919. As well as the age problem, the 1919 marriage certificate lists Lily's father as John not Samuel.
No, hard to say what has happened there. The Elizabeth Laird Cassells I don't think is the same person? I have been in touch with the grand daughter of this Elizabeth and she says she was b 10 Feb 1904 Motherwell. I couldn't find a record of her birth on Scotland's People though.
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If she was born in 1904 you should be able to find her in 1911 census- what age was she and what's listed for her place of birth?
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The Elizabeth Laird Cassells I don't think is the same person? I have been in touch with the grand daughter of this Elizabeth and she says she was b 10 Feb 1904 Motherwell. I couldn't find a record of her birth on Scotland's People though.
Her birth was registered in 1905 not 1904 and was posted in reply #1- which means that she would only have been 14 in 1919 (not age 22 Lily Castles).
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A daughter Elizabeth Castles was born at 20 Bishop Street, Glasgow on 10 February 1903 to parents Samuel Castles, a colliery labourer and Elizabeth Dickson. The birth registration was consistent in identifying the parent's marriage as having taken place on 3 September 1901 in Belfast. And also consistent with the 8 year old daughter Elizabeth shown for this couple in the 1911 Scotland census.
On a separate tack, my reply #7 showed the 1943 street directory entry for Samuel Cassells junior (68 Glenmachan Street), note the following possibility from that same directory for next door:
70. McDowell, J., painter
And the following subsequent entries:
1951: 70. McDowell, Elizabeth
1960: 70. McDowell, Mrs. Elizabeth
Which is in line with this burial record:
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7057.16430
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Great, thank you Gaffy and Aghadowey .
That would make her 16 when she married. I think it is pretty certain she married John McDowell. And the John and Elizabeth McDowell living next door to Elizabeth's brother are further conformation of that.
So unless there were two marriages around the same time for people of the same names, the 1919 marriage is the right one, with mistakes for her age and father's name?????
A daughter Elizabeth Castles was born at 20 Bishop Street, Glasgow on 10 February 1903 to parents Samuel Castles, a colliery labourer and Elizabeth Dickson. The birth registration was consistent in identifying the parent's marriage as having taken place on 3 September 1901 in Belfast. And also consistent with the 8 year old daughter Elizabeth shown for this couple in the 1911 Scotland census.
On a separate tack, my reply #7 showed the 1943 street directory entry for Samuel Cassells junior (68 Glenmachan Street), note the following possibility from that same directory for next door:
70. McDowell, J., painter
And the following subsequent entries:
1951: 70. McDowell, Elizabeth
1960: 70. McDowell, Mrs. Elizabeth
Which is in line with this burial record:
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7057.16430