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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: mlmcholm on Monday 14 May 18 16:37 BST (UK)
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Hi I hope some kind person can help me solve this mystery. I have recently obtained a birth cert for my 2x great grandfather, Thomas Green born 1851 Chorlton on Medlock, Manchester. His parents are listed as John Green and Catherine Mack from Ireland. So far I have been unable to find a marriage for them in the U.K. Which has led me to believe that they may have been married in Ireland. Their first son John was born in 1845, again Chorlton. So I was wondering if the marriage took place before 1845. Any help would be terrific. Many thanks
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You could try
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
put in name
and year ranges
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Hello,
Do you have a reference for them in 1851? There are a few John and Catherine Greens :)
Heywood
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Yes, they are listed as being visitors at Taylor's court, Chorlton on Medlock. Thomas is down as being 2 months old.
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Yes, they are listed as being visitors at Taylor's court, Chorlton on Medlock. Thomas is down as being 2 months old.
It helps if you give the census reference
1851 2220/635/34
It is difficult because it is one of the damaged pages
On ancestry your Thomas is shown as son to another couple and there is no sight of John snr as the name cannot be seen.
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Hello,
Do you have a reference for them in 1851? There are a few John and Catherine Greens :)
Heywood
>
Thomas Green was born 1851 Chorlton on Medlock so Marriage was probably before that.
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Thanks hallmark.
I realise that but I was trying to find the family to get an idea of age etc.
You see I can see the birth of Thomas with mother Mack but not John as yet.
Now I have found 1851, there is also a child Mary but I can only see a mmn of Mahon.
I was just trying to clarify the information.
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There is this possible marriage
September 1844 Chorlton
John Green and Catharine Mahon are on the same page.
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Just in case
Manchester Collegiate Church (Cathedral)
29th July 1844
John Green minor Weaver 10 Marsden Street father John Green, Hawker
Catherine Mahon minor 1 Bk Anvil Street Father MIchael Mahon labourer
Witnesses Samuel Rhodes and Catherine Newman
All made their mark
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Did your family move to Spotland and wider area?
Have you got the other children’s mother's names? I have seen some possibilities.
There is a John Green in 1881 4147/155/26
With birthplace transcribed as longfoot but reads more like Longfort so probably Longford.
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Thanks. Yes that's been the dilemma. The other children I have found on the Gro site have mmn as Mahon/Mahoney. The 1851 census I have is only a transcription from Manchester and Lancashire fhs. I can't find any other births with mmn Mack. John jnr was 6 on the census (1845?). John is down as being 24, Catherine 25
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Yes they did move to Spotland in 1861 census, 1871 Newchurch Bacup
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John is a widower in 1881 with a son Matthew 13yrs if It is the same person.
In 1871 4133/17/28
The children are all shown as born Manchester including daughter Martha.
There is a Rochdale birth for a Matthew Green in 1868 with mmn Mann :-\
What is the address for Thomas’ birth registration?
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I can see that it is difficult.
I am posting this in case you want to make note.
1841 580/ 31/ 12
John and Catherine Green with several children including young John, 15 yrs living in C o M.
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Thomas' address is 7 Taylor St Chorlton on Medlock
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Thomas' address is 7 Taylor St Chorlton on Medlock
Of course - as 1851 census.
I can’t see a birth for John can you?
Mary - 1848 mmn Mahon
Thomas 1850 mmn Mack
Michael abt 1852 - can’t find birth
James abt 1856 - can’t find
Ann abt 1858 - possibly mmn Mahoney, Chorlton
Catherine abt 1861 can’t find
Martha abt 1868 can’t find but Matthew already detailed.
Not much help, is it? Do you have any of them?
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Thanks everyone for your time on this. On the Gro site it gives
John (jnr) birth 1845 mmn Mack
Mary birth 1848 mmn Mahon
Michael birth 1857 mmn Muleaghy
James birth 1856 mmn Mahony
Ann birth 1858 mmn Mahoney
All listed under Chorlton
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There's a Matthew Green born 1868 Rochdale mmn Mann on Gro. Can't find Martha. On the 1871 census, Martha is listed and female. I'm well and truly confused!
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Yes that is the one I mentioned.
It is confusing.
John and Catherine were likely to be illiterate and then you have accent too. It also probably didn’t matter. :-\
Baptisms might help with sponsors names perhaps if they were relatives.
It is difficult too to look for deaths with such a common name.
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That's another problem. There's a possibility that the children were baptised at St Augustine RC church, but for the years in question, only an index with dates and name of child survive.
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John is a widower in 1881 with a son Matthew 13yrs if It is the same person.
In 1871 4133/17/28
The children are all shown as born Manchester including daughter Martha.
There is a Rochdale birth for a Matthew Green in 1868 with mmn Mann :-\
What is the address for Thomas’ birth registration?
I have since found a baptism for one of Thomas' sons, John William Green 1883 St Mary's of the Assumption Burnley. It lists one of the godparents as Mathias. Could this be the Matthew born 1868? I hope so!
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Matthias who?
If it is Green, it looks very good.
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Sorry heywood. Yes Mathias Green
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I have just seen the records - in Latin- so Mathias will be Matthew.
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heywood, there is a baptism for Catharine Mahon, Westmeath 1830, father Michael mother Mary (can't read mn) on Ancestry. Considering first daughter was Mary. There's also a death for Catherine in 1874 Newchurch age 44. The family were at Newchurch in 1871. I'm feeling hopeful.
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Looks like Quinn.
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Thanks heywood. I have ordered the birth cert for John mmn Mack born 1845 and Mary mmn Mahon born 1846 in the hope the address is the same, and if so could be the answer to my problem. Fingers crosssed
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Good luck :)
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Hi heywood. Well not the result I was hoping for. John 1845 address is 9 Cayley St Manchester. Where would that have been? Registration district is Deansgate. Mary 1846 is 1 Marsden St Chorlton on Medlock. The only similarity is that both John Green (father) occupation is weaver and that Catherine (mother) has signed with an x. John Green listed 10 Marsden street as his address on the marriage in 1844. Did they just move or is it indeed two families?
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Oh my!!! heywood, found Cayley st, it ran parallel to James Leigh st. Another coincidence then?
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I have been ‘wandering’ around the area and all the various addresses are in fairly close proximity.
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Catherine Mahon is on 1841 census living in James Leigh St. I just wish I could find something concrete, not just speculation.
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You have probably read much about Little Ireland. Here is one mention with a small map.
http://manchesterhistory.net/manchester/pubs/salisbury.html
I am not sure how you could move from speculation to concrete unless you could find an alternative family.
The various addresses are quite close and people did move around.
I think you said you can’t access any Baptisms with Godparents names which might help. Who are the marriage witnesses? Do they help at all?
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Thanks again heywood. I've since looked again at the birth cert for Mary, must have misread the address, it says Marsland St, not marsden st. Marsland st was even closer to the other locations. So I'm going with Mack and Mahon being the same person, until as you say, I can find another family.
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Have they anything to do with Ireland??
Manchester is in England!
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They have hallmark. I was originally trying to find the marriage between John Green and Catherine Mack, nothing showed up for uk. Birth Certs list Catherine Mack as mother. Sorry for the confusion.