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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Silverhawk on Monday 14 May 18 23:16 BST (UK)

Title: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: Silverhawk on Monday 14 May 18 23:16 BST (UK)
I've got a box of old military badges and medals that belonged to my grandparents, but I'm having trouble identifying some of them. Was wondering if anyone on this board could give me some pointers, it would be much appreciated.

First one is quite small, gold in colour, looks like a very stylised bird of some kind holding a horn.

Second one is made of silver and is another bird in flight, very glittery. I can make out the letters RAF in the body, but can't find Royal Air Force insignia on Google which matches this.

Third is a wheel connected to a single wing. I've got gold and silver coloured versions of this, the silver one is in better nick.

Fourth is a medal clearly marked "Coronation" with King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra on. George and Mary, the Prince and Princess of Wales is on the reverse in a similar pose. I've looked at the Edward VII coronation medal on Wikipedia though and it looks very different to this.
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: cati on Tuesday 15 May 18 00:11 BST (UK)
The second one is a "sweetheart brooch": made as a gift for wives, female relatives or girlfriends, and showing the insignia of the branch of the armed services in which the loved one served.  A nice little example.

The third one may also be a sweetheart brooch.

Cati
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 15 May 18 00:32 BST (UK)
The wheel and wing pin may relate to motorcycles. Does that fit in with your family?
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 15 May 18 00:42 BST (UK)
The last one is obviously a Coronation Medal. Looking on google images there appear to be a large number of different styles produced, though my quick search has not found one exactly the same as this one.

Yours is particularly nice as it has the original ribbon and is in good condiiton. (don't be tempted to overclean it though - it looks lovely just as it is). :)

I don't know what the top pin is.

Very nice items - you are lucky to have them.
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: Silverhawk on Tuesday 15 May 18 03:08 BST (UK)
The second one is a "sweetheart brooch": made as a gift for wives, female relatives or girlfriends, and showing the insignia of the branch of the armed services in which the loved one served.  A nice little example.
Curious. I know my nana served in the WAAF during WW2, but I don't know of anyone else in that branch of the service. That doesn't mean much though as my nana could have gotten it from someone else in her family (she had seven siblings) or it could even have been handed down. Do you know what era it's from? WW2 or sometime else?

The wheel and wing pin may relate to motorcycles. Does that fit in with your family?
Not that I know of, but again it doesn't mean there isn't. Just that I don't know a great deal about what most of my grandparents' siblings did.

The last one is obviously a Coronation Medal. Looking on google images there appear to be a large number of different styles produced, though my quick search has not found one exactly the same as this one.
Yes, I Googled all sorts of descriptions for it, but nothing was coming back that looked like it.

Yours is particularly nice as it has the original ribbon and is in good condiiton. (don't be tempted to overclean it though - it looks lovely just as it is). :)
Oh, cool. Thanks :)

Very nice items - you are lucky to have them.
Very lucky considered what happened to a lot of my grandparents' belongings. A lot of it was stored in the shed in the backyard, which we were assured by the workmen who put it up was waterproof. We went in the shed a couple of weeks ago (haven't really been in since my dad died several years ago) and had to throw 80% of the contents out as there was mould and rust covering everything. A large stack of black and white photographs that looked pre-war were all stuck together with mould and damp and the top one (what looked to be the crew of a navy ship) disintegrated when I tried to peel it off. Also had to hoy out my nana's box brownie camera, some old looking pocket tools, biscuit tins and a few books (one of them a 1930s edition of Warlord of Mars) :'( We did manage to save a small ornamental barrel which says it's made from the teak of the HMS Birmingham, it was full of pennies dating from the 1860s to 1950s, so obviously something handed down and added to over the decades. And there was a bunch of maps of France and Belgium that felt like they were made of cloth and covered in netting. One of them had Ordnance Survey 1918 printed on it and came with a photo pinpointing tactical positions. That must have been my great-grandfather's. He was a corporal in WW1 (had enlisted back in 1888). They were inside several layers of bags which seems to have mostly protected it. I just had to brush off minor mould.

This particular box with the insignias and medals in was in a covered box in the loft which I'd retrieved a few years ago but hadn't investigated properly until now. I'm thanking heavens they're okay. There's a lot in there. A Northumberland Fusiliers shoulder badge, RAF cap badge, some brass buttons, a 12th Royal Lancers collar badge, Comrades of the Great War pinbadge, Lusitania medallion and weirdly a German police officer's cap badge and 1942 Police Day donation pin (the swastika has been scratched off the former though). A few medals too, Defence medal and a few Stars (39-45, France & Germany and Africa with 8th Army clasp). They all look fairly decent.
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 15 May 18 03:32 BST (UK)
Wow, what a treasure trove!  :D

A crying shame about the items in the shed getting damaged. How awful. It is probably too late now, and this is not something I have ever tried so I can't vouch for the technique, but apparently if you submerge photos in water you can carefully prise them apart if they have stuck together. Google might give you proper instructions.

Yes, I would say the sweetheart brooch is from WW2.

Your maps may have been silk (rayon) maps - printed on fabric so they are quiet (as paper can be crinkly and noisy and heard by the enemy in war time), and also if they get wet they can be dried out unlike paper. Do you still have them?  :(

If it were me I think I still would have kept everything despite the mould, rust etc.
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: q98 on Tuesday 15 May 18 03:39 BST (UK)
Polish or a Imperial German eagle grasping a hunting horn?
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: tonepad on Tuesday 15 May 18 06:45 BST (UK)
Polish or a Imperial German eagle grasping a hunting horn?

Probably not a Polish Eagle, a Polish Eagle usually has a Crown on the head.

http://www.polandbymail.com/i/2234/lapel-pin-spirited-polish-eagle.htm#.WvpzvYgvzIU
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: q98 on Tuesday 15 May 18 08:44 BST (UK)
Agreed. Same would probably apply to German Imperial eagle.

I would suggest searching for websites similar to this http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/index.php

and submitting the jpg 's. You never know your luck!

"Half-wing" brevets were/are worn on the left breast above any medal ribbons. When viewed from the front, the "half-wing" extends to the right of the designator (in this case "wheel"). Further, lacking the crown, it is unlikely to be of British or Commonwealth origin.
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: tonepad on Tuesday 15 May 18 13:06 BST (UK)
Silverhawk,

Are there any stamped markings on the underside of the two (eagle & winged wheel) pin badges?

e.g.   J. R. GAUNT LONDON



Tony
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 15 May 18 13:13 BST (UK)
A German Imperial Eagle (Reichsadler) or Federal Eagle (Bundesadler) is always depicted with 2 heads.

So, unlikley to be German?

A similar badge here:
http://heritage-militaire.com/en/buckles-ornaments/983-badge-hunting-horn-with-eagle-first-empire.html
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: philipsearching on Tuesday 15 May 18 13:50 BST (UK)
The Edward/Alexandra coronation medal is probably an unofficial medal given to a schoolchild, Boy Scout or similar.  Some of my relatives have coronation and jubilee medals for George V which they were given as children.  There were many different designs and different ribbons.

http://www.aberdeenquest.com/Artwork/KingEdwardVIIandQueenAlexandraCoronationMedal.aspx?timeline=1900_1930_People&artworkid=1276

Philip
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: philipsearching on Tuesday 15 May 18 14:02 BST (UK)
Polish or a Imperial German eagle grasping a hunting horn?

I don't think it's Polish - the eagle usually wore a crown.

My thought was light infantry (chasseurs) from Germany or Eastern Europe, but I haven't found a match yet.
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: Silverhawk on Tuesday 15 May 18 15:40 BST (UK)
A crying shame about the items in the shed getting damaged. How awful. It is probably too late now, and this is not something I have ever tried so I can't vouch for the technique, but apparently if you submerge photos in water you can carefully prise them apart if they have stuck together. Google might give you proper instructions.
They already felt pretty saturated with moisture and the top photo was just flaking away in my hands when I tried to peel it off. I've put the rest of them on top of my wardrobe hoping a few weeks of spring/summer heat might dry them out to a point I can salvage them. My bedroom is a suntrap during summer.

Yes, I would say the sweetheart brooch is from WW2.
Okie-doke. Guess I'm looking for someone else who was in the RAF back then. Will have to do some digging of what nana's siblings did.

Your maps may have been silk (rayon) maps - printed on fabric so they are quiet (as paper can be crinkly and noisy and heard by the enemy in war time), and also if they get wet they can be dried out unlike paper. Do you still have them?  :(

If it were me I think I still would have kept everything despite the mould, rust etc.
Yes, I still have the maps, they weren't too bad, mostly protected in layers of bags. Everything else was just too damaged to keep though. The books in particular looked as though they'd turn to confetti if anyone tried to touch them. :( One of the biscuit tins, I could make out the faint writing of "Coronation Casket" on the side but the images on top were too faded to work out who was being depicted.

Polish or a Imperial German eagle grasping a hunting horn?
Probably not a Polish Eagle, a Polish Eagle usually has a Crown on the head.
That's a shame. If you'd said Poland, I might have had a lead on the origin. I remember at one of my great-uncle's funerals it being mentioned that he served alongside a unit of Polish soldiers during the war. Never had a bad word to say about them.

"Half-wing" brevets were/are worn on the left breast above any medal ribbons. When viewed from the front, the "half-wing" extends to the right of the designator (in this case "wheel"). Further, lacking the crown, it is unlikely to be of British or Commonwealth origin.
Interesting. Looks like I've uncovered quite a varied collection then :)

Are there any stamped markings on the underside of the two (eagle & winged wheel) pin badges?

e.g.   J. R. GAUNT LONDON
Nothing on either of them. Funny you should mention J. R. Gaunt though. The Comrades of the Great War pin is stamped with that name. It also has the number 361662 etched on the back. Could that be a service number? I was a bit confused by that pin as I didn't know of any Gaunts in the family, but from your mention it sounds like it's a manufacturer's name?
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: philipsearching on Wednesday 16 May 18 00:18 BST (UK)
Yes, I would say the sweetheart brooch is from WW2.
Okie-doke. Guess I'm looking for someone else who was in the RAF back then. Will have to do some digging of what nana's siblings did.

Not necessarily - you would be looking for a lady who had a RAF boyfriend or husband.  Maybe your WAAF nana was given it.

Philip
Title: Re: Unidentified badges and medal
Post by: Silverhawk on Wednesday 16 May 18 01:29 BST (UK)
Not necessarily - you would be looking for a lady who had a RAF boyfriend or husband.  Maybe your WAAF nana was given it.
I hadn't thought of that. My grandparents didn't marry until '45 and nana was in the WAAF from '41, so I guess she could have been going with someone she met in the service before him. Actually as the story goes, my grandda was supposed to marry nana's sister, but she died of TB in '44.