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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: dowsie on Wednesday 16 May 18 03:55 BST (UK)
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I am a new member to RootsChat. I am looking for any info on Rosa Davis born in the 1830's to father William and mother Sarah in Somersetshire.
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Rosa Anna Davis. baptised 28 Oct 1834, St Andrew, Holcombe, Somerset. To William and Sarah.
Father occupation Cooper.
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thanks for that
if this is the correct sarah she married a man by the surname Burnell and had a child William, any further info would be much appreciated
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I can't find any thing for Rosa Anna after her baptism, the only Davis / Burnell marriage I can find is 1853 George Burnell to possibly Louisa Davis E London 1c 21.
Have you any siblings for her?
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Thanks again
she had a child, William, and immigrated to Australia in mid 1860's
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When was William born?
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I can't find any record of that either but I believe it was early 1860's. I have his death cert from Aust
stating that he was 35 in 1898 and born in Hackney Wick.
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Was he Burnell or Davis. Have you found an immigration record for them?
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Apparently Rosa was a widow and remarried in Australia. Her name on the certificate was Rosa Burnell. I am assuming that the Burnell she had married died and she left England to start new with William in Australia. William's death cert has his name as Dowswell, Rosa's second husband.
Thanks for the assistance
hope this helps as I'm finding more in Australia as I go.
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Your doing better than I am then. I can't find a marriage for William and Sarah or find them in 1841/1851 with Rosa. You said in your subject line "looking for records on sarah davis b:1830-1840", I am assuming you meant Rosa.
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Your'e correct, the title should have been Rosa. I can't find any immigration records to Australia or marriage records in England.
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This could be Rosa in 1841, Spring Gardens, New Windsor, Berkshire. But it does'nt help much.
William Davis M 30-34
Sarah Davis F 30-34
Rosa Davis F 7 Berkshire
William Davis M 4 Berkshire
Emanuel Davis M 2 Berkshire
James Davis M 20-24
Still can't find a marriage for Rosa or birth for William Burnell.
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Thanks again for looking at my brickwall.
I'm running out of places to look.
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BDM NSW marriage
896/1866 BURNELL Rosa marr. DOWSWELL George W @ Sydney
BDM NSW death
3126 / 1898 DODSWELL William parents George / Rosannah @ Redfern
Can you please list all the information on these certificates.
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A son Thomas?
Evening News 13 May 1892 p4
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/112947050?
DOWSWELL. — In sad and loving remembrance of our dear mother, who departed this life May 12, 1890. Inserted by her loving son and daughter, Thomas and Annie Dowswell.
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BDM NSW death
3126 / 1898 DODSWELL William parents George / Rosannah @ Redfern
So the death in 1898 was'nt William Burnell unless he change his name when Rosa married George.
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The info on Rosa's marriage cert to George Dowswell states that her name is Rosa Burnell, a widow and she was born in Somersetshire, England and aged 28 in 1866. Her father is William Davis (occupation Brewer) and her mother is Sarah Hartnell.
The info on William's death cert states he was 35 in 1898, his father is George Dowswell and mother is Rosannah Davis. He was 31 yrs in the colony, 3yrs in Victoria and 28 yrs in NSW and her was born in London, England. He was 24 when he married Elizabeth Ada McKnight and had 3 surviving children.
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20 January 1834, Walcot St Swithin
William Davis
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Sarah Hartnoll
Bachelor and Spinster, both of the parish. He signed, she marked.
By Banns.
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Could this be a brother? New GRO birth index
March 1838 Shepton Mallet 10 415
Davis, William Hartwell
mother Hartwell
He is William Harkwell on the old GRO index
Anyway, regardless, a marriage
14 January 1866, St Peter Stepney
William Hartnoll Davis, 29, Bachelor, Master Mariner, father William Davis, Deceased
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Margaret Henderson
residence for both 14 Alderney Road
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Masters and Mates Certificates, 1850-1927
Certificate of Competency as Master
William Hartnoll Davis
Date and Place of Birth - 1836 Shepton Mallet, Somerset
Ordinary Examination passed at Liverpool, 11 October 1864
Issued at the port of Liverpool 15 October 1864
So he could be the 4 year old in New Windsor with William the journeyman cooper, Sarah, Rosa, etc, found by solidrock.
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In Clewer in 1851
piece 1695 folio 587 page 17
William Davis Head 40 Cooper, born Somerset Shepton Mallet
Sarah Davis Wife 39 Somerset Bristol
William Davis Son 13 Somerset Shepton Mallet
Emily Davis Daur 10 Berks Windsor
Sarah Davis Daur 8 Berks Windsor
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Possibility for Rosa nearby in 1851
piece 1695 folio 386 page 7
New Windsor with Dedworth
10 York Place
Rosa A Davies Servt 16 House ser?, born Okeham? Somerset(shire?)
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More birth registrations
March 1841 Windsor 6 285
Davis, Emily
mother Hartnoll
Dec 1842 Windsor 6 270
Davis, Sarah
mother Hartnoll
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Thanks to all for the info supplied.
There is a lot to take in. Still looking for Rosa's marriage ( I believe to Burnell), the birth of her son William ( 1862?) and how they travelled to Australia before she married George Dowswell in 1866.
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At your reply #16 -
Can you please complete the information from the marriage certificate, 1866 -
all details about George DOWSWELL....age. birth details, occupation, any addresses, names of witnesses, name of church. Is this document a transcription (all typed) or the image of a handwritten documents ie handwritten signatures?
From the death certificate......any addresses, cause of death, place of death, name of informant, burial place.
Using the NSW BDM index, I am not seeing the marriage to Elizabeth Ada McKnight. Can you identify it please.
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George Henry Dowswell married Rosa Burnell 3/11/1866 at Scots Church, Sydney
age:23 occupation: miller father: Thomas Dowswell mother: Mary Brinkworth
lived: Surry Hills born: Sydney, NSW witnesses: George D Lang, Isabella Lang
minister: John Dunmore Lang
William Dowswell died 13/3/1898 at 8 George St Redfern from Colic aged 35
informant was William McKnight, brother in law living at 45 Young St Redfern
buried in CofE cemetery Rookwood.
William married Elizabeth Ada in Victoria in 1989, record no 9133
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Marriage certificate 1866, NSW -
".... Is this document a transcription (all typed) or the image of a handwritten documents ie handwritten signatures?"
Does Rosa make her signature...is Rosa literate.
You have one chance at the family name that Rosa uses at marriage, and by extension the name of her husband (?), and possibly the father of William. So it would be useful to know if the document you are using is a hand written document. Are you reading the handwritten name to be BURNELL, or is that name typed.
The death certificate for William is informed by his wife's husband. William's marriage certificate would be useful to you. William would be naming his parents, and giving father's occupation. William would be giving his age and birthplace. For all that he uses the family name of Rosa's husband, DOWSWELL, William might give something else on the certificate.
What is William doing in Victoria.....what is his occupation.......who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate?
Where a widow remarries, her younger daughters sometimes take the family name of mother's new husband. Older daughters might. Sons usually retain the name of their birth father.
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The marriage cert is a transcription, all typed.
The death cert for William is informed by the wife's brother, also a William.
I do have William's marriage cert to Elizabeth Ada McKnight (handwritten). His parents are listed as George Dowswell and Ann Dowswell maiden name Davies. His father's occupation is Engineer. William is 27 yrs 6 mths at Dec 1889 and born in Hackney Wick, Victoria Park, London. His occupation is Master Bricklayer and Elizabeth comes from Surry Hills Sydney so I have no idea of why they married in Victoria. Their first born, Rosa Constance was born in Vic in 1890.
It does seem like William has taken the Dowswell surname.
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Found this, looks about right..
BERNELL, WILLIAM DAVIS
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 356
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Looks good, i'll have to order the certificate to verify.
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Found this, looks about right..
BERNELL, WILLIAM DAVIS
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 356
Great find!
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Still can't find a marriage, maybe Rosa was previously married.
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Theory.
Rosa never married a Burnell but was a mistress to William Burnell. William was married to Emma Burnell. In 1861 they were living at Brook Street, Hackney with 4 children, the last to be born was William age 0. As far as I can see there are no other Williams born in Hackney at that time and no apparent deaths and William is not in the 1871 census's as far as I can see.
1861 Hackney Piece/Folio 153 / 70 Registration Number RG09 Page Number 42
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Good theory. I have ordered the birth cert and will post the result went it arrives.
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I think that - unfortunately - the Burnell family in Hackney in 1861 are actually called Benwell.
In 1861 daughter Louisa was 10 born Surrey Mitcham
They seem to be in Streatham in 1851
piece 1579 folio 448 page 20
William Benwell 24 Gardener, born Hants Andover (I think that was what was meant for his birthplace in 61!)
Emma Benwell 23 Sussex Arundel (Ireland in 61)
Louisa Benwell 5 mo Surrey Mitcham
Birth reg, Dec 1850 Croydon
Benwell, Eliza Louisa
mother Duke
Baptism for her in Streatham, 18 January 1851 as Louisa Eliza, parents William and Emma Benwell. Father a Gardener. Her birth date was 17 Oct 1850
Jessea (or something like it) Burnell was 3 in 1861, born Middlesex London
Sep 1857 St Luke
Benwell, Jessey Emma
mother Duke
William Burnell, also born Middlesex London in 61, could say 8 months old?
Sep 1860 Bethnal Green
Benwell, William Frederick
mother Duke
Marriage at Kennington St Mark, 10 Dec 1849
William Benwell + Emma Duke
Sorry about that. Maybe Mr Benwell has something to do with it, and the name was slightly corrupted (as on the census). We shall see!
John
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Thanks John for that :-\
Been looking for Rosa in 1861 but nothing found with the name Davis,Burnell,Bernell,Benwell. Could we assume that she legged it to Australia just after William was born but with who and under what name. Can't see a 30 year old woman with a baby going all that way on a whim and alone. Yet to find an immigration record that fits.
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There is an inquest for a James Burnell who drowned, it says he had a wife and child but no names.
James Burnell.
18 Feb 1864.
Victoria, British Colonial Australia.
Entaa, Victoria, Australia.
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Rosa Bernell
Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923 on Ancestry
Also on PROV - Public Record Office Victoria
24 183 NOV ENG 1 B RESULT 1860 BERNELL, ROSA
I have'nt got a sub so can't view, perhaps someone can look.
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Rosa Bernell
Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923 on Ancestry
Also on PROV - Public Record Office Victoria
24 183 NOV ENG 1 B RESULT 1860 BERNELL, ROSA
Brilliant stuff, solidrock. It certainly explains why we couldn't find Rosa in 1861!
John
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Looking better all the time. Great work.
Doesn't list William with her unless he is one of the unknown children.
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Hi dowsie, Have you seen the record on Ancestry, what does it say? I don't think they list children of that age but I could be wrong. Also not sure if it's a list of arrivals or departures, if it's arrivals then Rosa's husband could have died on the voyage and been buried at sea. Will be interesting to see what his given name is on Williams birth cert, if he is on there, it may help to find a marriage if there was one.
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(First time posting so please forgive me if I miss anything)
From Ancestry's Passenger List
Bernell, Rosa
Age 24; English; Married - listed as wife but no other family members listed with her
Passenger in Second cabin
Port of Embarkation - London approximately August 13, 1860
Arrival in Melbourne on November 3, 1860
I hope that helps :)
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Every little bit helps. The birth cert should answer a lot of questions.
Thanks to all.
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(First time posting so please forgive me if I miss anything)
From Ancestry's Passenger List
Bernell, Rosa
Age 24; English; Married - listed as wife but no other family members listed with her
Passenger in Second cabin
Port of Embarkation - London approximately August 13, 1860
Arrival in Melbourne on November 3, 1860
Welcome to Rootschat,
Thanks for posting that, did it give the name of the ship as I can not find any record of a ship named Result. Obviously her husband was still alive then as she's not listed as a widow but I still find it difficult to believe that she would travel all that way alone with a baby to a strange country. Perhaps her husband went ahead and she is following him.
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It looks as though Rosa arrived in Victoria 1860. It is interesting to see William DOWSWELL marrying in Victoria, 1889....might mean something...might mean nothing.
Can you list all the information on the 1889 DOWSWELL - McKNIGHT marriage certificate please.
addresses...names of witnesses...church...McKnight details...witnesses......everything please.
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Rosa was an un-assisted passenger therefor she paid her own fare or someone paid it for her. She was a servant in 1851 in York Place, Windsor, if someone could view the census to see who her employer was as they may have paid her fare.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGV1-CXM
"Unassisted immigrants came out to Australia on their own passage, paying their own cabin class or steerage fare.
Some of the young men and young women on the ships were domestic servants accompanying their employers."
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(First time posting so please forgive me if I miss anything)
From Ancestry's Passenger List
Bernell, Rosa
Age 24; English; Married - listed as wife but no other family members listed with her
Passenger in Second cabin
Port of Embarkation - London approximately August 13, 1860
Arrival in Melbourne on November 3, 1860
Welcome to Rootschat,
Thanks for posting that, did it give the name of the ship as I can not find any record of a ship named Result. Obviously her husband was still alive then as she's not listed as a widow but I still find it difficult to believe that she would travel all that way alone with a baby to a strange country. Perhaps her husband went ahead and she is following him.
Yes, the ship is listed as "Result"
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William's marriage cert to Elizabeth Ada McKnight (handwritten). His parents are listed as George Dowswell and Ann Dowswell maiden name Davies. His father's occupation is Engineer. William is 27 yrs 6 mths at Dec 1889 and born in Hackney Wick, Victoria Park, London. His occupation is Master Bricklayer and his present address is Rathdown St Carlton and his usual address is 38 Palmer St Balmain.
Elizabeth's usual address is 44 Holt St Surry Hills. Her father is listed as William John McKnight and mother Alice McKnight maiden name Wallace.
Registrar of Marriages, Edward Mallock/Shallock/Mattock, in his office at Ascot Vale.
Witnessed by John Swanie and Ellen Pauline Swanie.
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The head of the household where Rosa was a servant in 1851 is Maria Wilsenden but can't find her on any passenger lists. I'll try to find other household members.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGV1-C61
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Other household members were Elizabeth A Garlich and Edward Garlich. Non of them were on the passenger list. Who paid Rosa's fare??? Back to the drawing board. ???
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"BERNELL, WILLIAM DAVIS
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 356"
I have just received this certificate back and it clearly states:-
When Born: 4th May 1860 Name: William Sex: Boy Father: William Bernell
Mother: Rosa Ann Bernell formally Davis
Father Profession: Bailiff Informant: R.A.Bernell mother of 1 Wick Rd.
Thanks to ALL who helped to get me this far BUT how and when did William get to Aust. He is still listed in the 1861 census after Rosa came to Aust. It is stated on his death cert in 1898 that he was 31 yrs in the colony so looking around 1867. That means he travelled to Aust as a 6 yr old and with whom?
Solid Rock's theory about being a mistress looks very close to the mark as the informant being Rosa could have said anything, suggesting that they were married (same surname).
Back to the passenger lists.
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Maybe we've got the wrong William :-\
The birth cert says fathers profession Bailiff but in 1861 he was Coachman / Gentleman. Also the address is different, birth 1 Wick Rd, census Brook Street.
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It sought of goes with your theory about Rosa being a mistress. How about this.
She may have lived in Wick Rd when she gave birth in May 1860. She may have taken the fathers surname of Bernell to seem legitimate. She may have given the baby to the father when she travelled to Aust Nov 1860. This allowed William to show up on 1861 census. William may have travelled to Aust as a child later in the 60's ( 31 yrs in colony).
A bit of a stretch but we do have the right birth, just have to link the correct father and immigration details.
Thanks again for your help.
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I think you right but there is still the question of who paid Rosa's fare, could of been William the father and why would she go alone leaving William Jnr. Then if William Jnr. traveled later then who with, I don't think you will find him on a passenger list because as far as I can tell children were not named only listed as child.
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It doesn't make sense to me either. I'll keep on looking and hope something falls into place.
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But do remember that the little William in Hackney in 1861 was actually a Benwell, and was still around in England in 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB6N-4XB
Maybe the mysterious Mr Burnell/Bernell had gone on ahead to Australia. Or left behind somewhere before Rosa turned up in Hackney!
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But do remember that the little William in Hackney in 1861 was actually a Benwell, and was still around in England in 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB6N-4XB
Maybe the mysterious Mr Burnell/Bernell had gone on ahead to Australia. Or left behind somewhere before Rosa turned up in Hackney!
In 1861 William Jnr. was a Burnell, on his birth cert he was Bernell. Every thing changes in 1871 when they all become Benwell, and Emma is born in Littlehampton not Ireland all of which is not unusual as far as census's go. The birth cert is right, the problem now is how and when William went to Aus, children are'nt listed by name on passenger lists. maybe interesting to find the other occupants of 1, Wick Road in 51/61.
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Not sure on how to do that.