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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: stevengenresearch on Wednesday 16 May 18 08:25 BST (UK)
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First time asking for help to find a ancestor, my brick wall is David John Frewin who died 20 April 1883 in Vic Aust, l have his death & marriage certificate, both state his parents are Thomas Frewin (Customs Home Officer) & Elizabeth Henty/Hemby. his birth is about 1839 in Liverpool, Davids occupation was a Lighterman, l have also found a couple of ship lists with David as a crew member also saying he was from Liverpool, beside that i can find no record of David and his parents in Liverpool or even England, tried all the usual spelling variations, Fruin/Frewen/Ect
Any help Appreciated.
Steve.
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Hi
You have a brickwall and you cannot work it out.
Why not bring us up to the same level of what detail you have and give us the same chance?
Did he emigrate to Aus? Or was it one of his descendants?
He married/when/where/wife's name?
Children?
When/where did he die?
What census records are there?
What ships did he sail on?
Can/would you summarise?
Cheers
Ray
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sorry, new to asking for help on brickwalls,
David emigrated to Aust but unknown when, He married Helen Stewart 27 December 1866 Scots' Church, Melbourne, He Died 20 April 1883 Williamstown, Victoria,
l found him on the ship Traveler 7 May 1865 and 8 Aug 1864 and Ship Adcona 30 May 1864. all as a Crewman.
He Died age 44 And His wife remarried 2 years later,
All there children died young except 2.
Though the brickwall is Davids Birth and Parents.
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his parents are Thomas Frewin (Customs Home Officer) & Elizabeth Henty/Hemby.
The National Archives (Kew) have records of customs officers
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/customs-officers/
There is also mention of Thomas and Elizabeth Frewin (of Grafton St, Liverpool) in the records of Stanhope St Wesleyan Chapel, Liverpool in 1837. (Parents of Thomas William Frewin, who died aged 20) - RG4 Piece 3359
And another burial of a daughter Elizabeth Frewen (age 22) in 1843.
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Thank you Anthony
Checking the Customs officers now,
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You will need to visit Kew and go through them, or get someone to do it for you - not much (if any) has been indexed.
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BDM VIC marriage
1866 / 3926 FREUIN David John marr. STEWART Hellen
The death certificate should ask for "years in the colony"....what do you see?
What names do you see for witnesses on the marriage certificate, 1866?
"..All there children died young except 2"
Will for David John FREWEN d. 1883, Helen's statements -
" three children namely Annie FREWEN 15 years, Elizabeth FREWEN 12 years and David John 5 years and seven months all residing in Williamstown "
Can you scan the marriage certificate, 1866, and place here for us to see?
Can you scan the death certificate, 1883, and place here for us to see?
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Thanks wivenhoe.
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I wonder if this is David's mother Elizabeth's death?
Frewin Elizabeth 75 W. Derby 8b 209
certificate would state if widowed & husband's occupation.
Added: If son Thomas was born 1817 & daughter Elizabeth 1821, Thomas & Elizabeth may have married ca 1810 - 16. David 1839 would have been a late child....
They ought to be on 1841 census.
Added 2: Thomas' job may have taken him around the country so marriage not necessarily in Liverpool. They were in Dorset in 1816
William Thomas Frewin
Birth year 1816
Baptism date 20 Oct 1816 Wyke Regis
Parents' names Son of Thomas & Elizabeth
Excise Officer
Dorset Baptisms
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Checked FreeBMD for any David Frewin and variants births reg Sept 1837-Dec 1842 in England;
Them checked those on GRO site for Mothers maiden name.
This is the full list, Mothers maiden name to the right
FERNIE 1837/Gregory
FEARN 1839/ Bromley
FREWEN 1839/Snell
FERN 1840/Thomas
FARON (David Eccles) no Mothers mn (illeg)
FEARN 1842/Kingstone
FARAINE 1843 On FreeBMD, France on GRO/ Mother Lowden
So nothing that matches up.
Trish :)
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Could something else have been Elizabeth's maiden name, but she was a widow named Hen[m]by when she married Thomas?
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Thats was my thought exactly :)
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Could David have simply not been registered? I heard somewhere that it wasn't uncommon for births to be missing in the early years of registration as it wasn't rigidly enforced.
Also, Steve, the Traveller crew roster shows a David Frewin who was 30 in 1860. What makes you think it's the same person as your David? The Florence one looks accurate, age 32 in 1871, but I'd be suspicious of the former given he's apparently only aged 2 years in the space of 11. Granted I have a case of weird aging in one of my branches where he aged 7 years in 10, 4 years in the next 10 then 26 years in the last 10, but that sort of fact fudging is an isolated incident in my tree. Normally if I see an age gap of more than 5 years of what it should be, I discount it. If there's other evidence though which ties him in, fair enough.
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Added 2: Thomas' job may have taken him around the country so marriage not necessarily in Liverpool. They were in Dorset in 1816
William Thomas Frewin
Birth year 1816
Baptism date 20 Oct 1816 Wyke Regis
Parents' names Son of Thomas & Elizabeth
Excise Officer
Dorset Baptisms
Looking at the Elizabeth Frewin death in West Derby, this seems to be her:
1851 Oliver Street, West Derby – HO107/2192/524/43
John Williams 30 Rail Labourer born Holyhead, Anglesea
Mary Williams 28 Wife born London, Middx
John Williams 2 Son born Liverpool
Elizabeth Frewin 56 Visitor Married Nurse born Weymouth, Dorsetshire
1861 Cellar, 41 Robert Street, West Derby - RG9/2703/49/23
Elizabeth Frewen 70 Widow born Weymouth, Dorsetshire
William Williams 5 Grandson born Toxteth Park
Mary Jane Frewin married John Williams in Liverpool 1848
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Possible sibling:
St Luke, Liverpool - baptism 30 May 1838
Elizabeth Fruin, born 16 Jan 1822.
Parents: Thomas (officer in the Customs) and Elizabeth.
Abode: Ashton St.
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There is an 1845 Merchant Navy listing (Seaman's Ticket) for David Frewin born Edge Hill, which is Liverpool. Also some later ones (1853/4) which just say Liverpool but give his birth at around 1830/1831.
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Thank you everyone, given me a start on this branch of family. :)
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Added: If son Thomas was born 1817 & daughter Elizabeth 1821, Thomas & Elizabeth may have married ca 1810 - 16.
They were in Dorset in 1816
William Thomas Frewin
Birth year 1816
Baptism date 20 Oct 1816 Wyke Regis
Parents' names Son of Thomas & Elizabeth
Excise Officer
Dorset Baptisms
1851 Oliver Street, West Derby – HO107/2192/524/43
John Williams 30 Rail Labourer born Holyhead, Anglesea
Mary Williams 28 Wife born London, Middx
John Williams 2 Son born Liverpool
Elizabeth Frewin 56 Visitor Married Nurse born Weymouth, Dorsetshire
1861 Cellar, 41 Robert Street, West Derby - RG9/2703/49/23
Elizabeth Frewen 70 Widow born Weymouth, Dorsetshire
William Williams 5 Grandson born Toxteth Park
The only marriage that would seem to fit is 3 Oct 1815, Melcombe Regis, Dorset
Thomas Frewin Batchelor otp & Elizabeth Caddy spinster of Weymouth
Married by Licence, both signed
Wits: John & Ann Gentry
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Good finds, Jomot.
Could this be Thomas' death?
FREWIN, THOMAS 59
GRO Reference: 1851 S Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 02 Page 367
There is a burial of a Thomas Frewin
Thomas Frewin
Age 61 [born ca 1790]
Abode Ratcliff
Burial Date 21/09/1851
Burial Place St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney
Sadly no occupation given; age differs from GRO death reference.
Thomas was not with Elizabeth on the 1851 census, MAY have been in London....
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The death ties in with a census entry at Perrywinkle Street, Ratcliff, Stepney - HO107/1551/128/22
Thomas Frewen 59 Married Waterman born Hampshire
I'd looked at that yesterday but couldn't see the connection between a waterman & a customs man, but the fact that he was married but no wife with him did have me intrigued. :-\
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The only marriage that would seem to fit is 3 Oct 1815, Melcombe Regis, Dorset
Thomas Frewin Batchelor otp & Elizabeth Caddy spinster of Weymouth
Married by Licence, both signed
Wits: John & Ann Gentry
Just looked again at David's marriage certificate - does his mother's name say 'Hentry'? Not sure how that squares with Caddy ???
ADDED: An Elizabeth Cady baptised Piddlehinton 1795 parents John & Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N27N-BMR
this couple appears also to have had Thomas 1792, David 1797, John 1799 baptised in Piddlehinton & there is a George baptised in Pulham in 1784 to a John & Ann Cad[d]y.
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Hi....
Can I jump in with this....
Elizabeth Hendy Cady. Baptised 22nd December 1790
Wyke Regis Dorset David Cady & Mary Cady.
Tazzie
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Hi....
Can I jump in with this....
Elizabeth Hendy Cady. Baptised 22nd December 1790
Wyke Regis Dorset David Cady & Mary Cady.
Tazzie
Oh I'm liking the look of that - especially with her father being named David. Great find! :D
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Marriage of David & Mary...
David Cady to Mary Hendy. Wyke Regis 2nd Sept 1780.
Both of Weymouth bachelor and spinster
Tazzie
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Brilliant, well done; certainly looks right.
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found this entry for thomas frewin in Dorset
thomas occupation Excise Officer.
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Yes, that's the one Josey posted yesterday that led us to Dorset:
They were in Dorset in 1816
William Thomas Frewin
Birth year 1816
Baptism date 20 Oct 1816 Wyke Regis
Parents' names Son of Thomas & Elizabeth
Excise Officer
Dorset Baptisms
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think l need to go to specsavers for missing that, :o
the various crew lists and merchant seaman records l have found David in all state born either around 1830 or around 1839. and all born in liverpool,
also found a thomas frewin in London occupation Watermen & Lightermen. Lightermen was Davids Occupation when he died in Victoria, Aust.
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think i need to relearn genealogy research too.
just found what may be my Thomas Frewin In South Australia as a Weigher in the Customs Department, and also findagraves for thomas and his wife Sarah Elizabeth. ????.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100574067
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100574066/sarah-elizabeth-frewin
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BDM VIC marriage
1866 / 3926 FREUIN David John marr. STEWART Hellen
The death certificate should ask for "years in the colony"....what do you see?
What names do you see for witnesses on the marriage certificate, 1866?
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Marriage Witnesses are Mary & Henry Stewart (Helens Siblings)
25 years in Vic, From Liverpool England.
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That death is a puzzle, as the birth year of c1810 would obviously make him too young to be the Thomas who married Elizabeth Hendy Cady in 1815.
There's a photo of him available in the National Archives:
Descriptive note:
Thomas Frewin joined HM Customs in 1852, retired in 1886 and died in 1894
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m36/
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Looks like the Thomas in South Australia may just be a coincidence, or possibly more distantly related:
1851, Basing, Hampshire – HO107/1681/87/2
Thomas Frewen 41 Farmer of 200 acres. Born Blewbury Berkshire
Sarah Elizth 36 wife Shefford Berkshire
Sophia Matilda 13
Maria Louisa 11
Mary A 7
Harriet Ann 5
William Henry 5
FREWIN, MARIA LOUISA mmn FROOME GRO Ref: 1840 J Quarter in HENLEY Volume 16 Page 78
Marriage 22 Sep 1836, Great Shefford,Berkshire
Thomas Trewin [Frewin] & Sarah Elizabeth Froome
Baptism: Blewberry, Berkshire 05 Oct 1809 Thomas s/o John & Sophia Frewin
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Hi...
The above family arrive on the Mary Harrison from London. Arrived Aug 1852 at Adelaide and Port Philip Bay.
Thomas Frewin listed as farmer age 42 travelled as a family with all the children.
Tazzie