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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: EdCan on Wednesday 16 May 18 19:06 BST (UK)
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I have a number of people who I am assuming are very distant relatives that I can not find in the register. Is there somewhere else that they would show up? I can not justify birth and marriage certs and was hoping to make family connections with the register.
Ed
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Some FAQ answers from FindMyPast:
Individuals’ records remain closed for 100 years from their date of birth (100 year rule). Records remain closed for people born less than 100 years ago until proof of death is verified. As more records become open as a result of the 100 year rule, more records will become available to search and view online at Findmypast. Of the 41 million records, approximately 13 million (around 32%) will be closed at publication. The 1939 Register will be updated regularly.
This record set only contains records of the civilian population for England and Wales, not the whole of the United Kingdom. Neither records for the Isle of Man nor the Channel Islands are included.
The 1939 Register was designed to capture the whereabouts of the civilian population on a specific date. Members of the armed services were not included in the register. The Register was not meant to record members of the armed forces and the records do not feature:
British Army barracks
Royal Navy stations
Royal Air Force stations
Members of the armed forces billeted in homes, including their own homes
However, the records do include members of the armed services on leave and civilians on military bases.
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Hi Ed...if they are still living then their records will be blacked or be in the military. Have you tried looking for their parents.
Carol
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I have a number of people who I am assuming are very distant relatives that I can not find in the register. Is there somewhere else that they would show up? I can not justify birth and marriage certs and was hoping to make family connections with the register.
Ed
Can I just add to the previous answers that any living people will NOT show up in a search. Therefore, as previously suggested trying to search for the generation above is usually worth a try. For example, my mother is blacked out and will not appear in a search - her parents however do turn up in a search and can be found.
Also, if you know any addresses of the people you are looking for it is worth doing a address search and seeing who you find.
Good luck
CD
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The husband/father born 1891. I found him in 1939 but he claims to be a widower however no death shows up for wife. She was born 1893. Children who I assume are theirs born 1917-1932 so there is a possibility that a couple of youngest may still be living. Wife and children I can not find.
Ed
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Living people SHOULD NOT show up but there are numerous reports of living people being visible.
FindMyPast will close erroneously open records if informed about them.
Many people moved in preparation for the war, mothers and children evacuated large cities even before the official start of relocation. Many went to relatives in the countryside or areas of less perceived danger, so it pays to widen the location search criteria. sometimes it pays to omit the location alltogether.
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Have you tried leaving out the DOB as some of mine were wrong on the 1939 register...also middle names are sometimes used.
Carol
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I will post what I have and let someone have ago at it.
Glady Ross born 1893 Bradford. Charles Edward Grant born 1891 Bradford. They married 1916 Bradford. Possible children surname Grant and mmn Ross all born Bradford - Douglas 1917, Margery 1918, Vera 1922, G-- 1925 and N--- 1932. I realize Douglas and Margery may have been in military. In 1939 Charles Edward was living in Baildon. He died 1971 Claro RD.
Possible marriages are Margery 1943 Bradford, V--1942 Bradford and N-- either 1947 Claro or 1953 Bradford.
Ed
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There are four redacted entries in the household of Charles Edward Grant. Some or all of these are likely to be the children you can’t find.
Isobel
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I am ashamed to admit that I never noticed that
Ed
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Death -
Gladys Grant age 46, Sept quarter of 1939
Knaresborough district
Volume 9a Page 148
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Death -
Gladys Grant age 46, Sept quarter of 1939
Knaresborough district
Volume 9a Page 148
I saw that but ruled it out because of a common name and in a different County
Ed
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I saw that but ruled it out because of a common name and in a different County
Ed
Knaresborough and Bradford are both in Yorkshire ;D
Albeit 22 miles apart.
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Gladys Grant age 46 buried at Shipley, Hirst Wood Burial Ground on 1st August 1939
Address - 'Westholme', 30 West Lane, Baildon
(same address as husband Charles on 1939 register)
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Death of Douglas Grant aged 15 days buried at Shipley, Hirst Wood Burial Ground on 27th April 1917
Birth of Douglas Grant - Bradford June quarter 1917 Vol 9b Page 208
Death of Douglas Grant - Bradford June quarter 1917 Vol 9b Page 227 (age 0)
Address - 250 Kensington Street, Bradford
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I saw that but ruled it out because of a common name and in a different County
Ed
Knaresborough and Bradford are both in Yorkshire ;D
Albeit 22 miles apart.
I thought Knaresborough was North and Bradford was West
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Thanks redtonyt. Much appreciated
Ed
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I saw that but ruled it out because of a common name and in a different County
Ed
Knaresborough and Bradford are both in Yorkshire ;D
Albeit 22 miles apart.
I thought Knaresborough was North and Bradford was West
Yorkshire is one county - but is divided into 3 divisions.
These divisions are called Ridings,
Knaresborough is in the North Riding of the County of Yorkshire.
Bradford is in the West Riding.
But both are in the county of Yorkshire ;D
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I never knew that. Obvious that I do not have a degree in English geography.
Thanks
Ed
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I have a missing great grandfather on 1939 register. He’s in the 1901 and 1911 census and have a death in 1961
There’s no record of military service in WW2 (he would be 54).
In 1939 his wife is shown as being married, and at an address, but he’s not there. There *is* a redacted line above her but as he died in 1961, surely this can’t be him or it would be un-redacted.
Any ideas on what’s going on?
Trying to find records for Walter James Huckin born 1885 Enstone. His wife was Minnie Matilda.
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Where did he die?
The 1939 National Register was renamed the NHS Register, and updated by them until the early 1990's.
But they could only update once they had the facts! ;D
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He died in the same area, Preston
On all the websites it’s still called the 1939 register, and Minnie is in it.
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Are you checking on Ancestry (updated annually) or FindMyPast (updated monthly, I believe)?
You can report an error by sending a copy of the Death Certificate?
It's free for FindMyPast subscribers.
Otherwise send to The National Archives, with a fee.
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Yes I am. I’m working daily on this. Ordered copy of death certificate so will try that. I don’t even know if he’s the redacted entry...
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Trying to find records for Walter James Huckin born 1885 Enstone. His wife was Minnie Matilda.
He may have been Walter James in between, but in the birth and death indexes he appears to be Walter John
GRO birth index
HUCKIN, WALTER JOHN
Mother's Maiden Surname: WAKEFIELD
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in CHIPPING NORTON Volume 03A Page 888
Death from Lancashire BMD
1961
HUCKIN, Walter John
Age 77
Sub-District Fulwood
Registers at Preston
Reference FUL/10B/61
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Burial at Preston Cemetery
18 Sep 1961
Walter John Huckin
age 77
residence 11 Whittingham Street Preston
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-M99M-F?i=186&cat=987517
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Graves Register
C of E Division
FF / 697
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-L7K1?i=133&cat=987517
Gives the register number of one other occupant. Seems to be Thomas Atkinson, buried a couple of months later.
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Thank you all for your help. I have no idea how I got Walter James...
However, unless that redacted entry is him, there isn't an entry for him in 1939.
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There *is* a redacted line above her but as he died in 1961, surely this can’t be him or it would be un-redacted.
In this case the year he died has nothing to do with being redacted as he was born well over 100 years ago. If that is him then it is just a mistake and you can report an error without a death cert. However I noticed awhile ago that FindMyPast have removed all the reporting links so they may not be able to do anything at the moment until they are back to working at full capacity.
Debra :)
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In this case the year he died has nothing to do with being redacted as he was born well over 100 years ago. If that is him then it is just a mistake and you can report an error without a death cert. However I noticed awhile ago that FindMyPast have removed all the reporting links so they may not be able to do anything at the moment until they are back to working at full capacity.
Debra :)
Reporting links are now working on FindMyPast they are on the transcript page, I only noticed them the other day so possibly a recent addition though I may just have missed them before.
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I would like to add that it is worth noting when searching for children on the 1939 Register that they may have been evacuated and may not be at the address you thought they should be at.
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Thanks all. Will look to report the redaction.
Thanks for the note Crumblie; he was 54 at the time... 😉
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In this case the year he died has nothing to do with being redacted as he was born well over 100 years ago. If that is him then it is just a mistake and you can report an error without a death cert. However I noticed awhile ago that FindMyPast have removed all the reporting links so they may not be able to do anything at the moment until they are back to working at full capacity.
Debra :)
THe links on FindMyPast only seem to be for correcting existing entries with alternate data. Can't see anyting that says "this should not be closed"... I've sent them an email...
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If you think a record should be open and you have proof that the person has died,you can click on the button to the right of the page which says "open this record"
Carol
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If you think a record should be open and you have proof that the person has died,you can click on the button to the right of the page which says "open this record"
Carol
Thanks Carol
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If you think a record should be open and you have proof that the person has died,you can click on the button to the right of the page which says "open this record"
Carol
Thanks Carol
It is quite easy to miss this if you are looking at the household transcript and have not selected the closed record as the equivalent button alongside an open record is giving the option to close it.
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It is quite easy to miss this if you are looking at the household transcript and have not selected the closed record as the equivalent button alongside an open record is giving the option to close it.
It appears that the closed record in the 1939 register is *not* him. They replied and said he wasn't in that property so the record I though was him has to remain closed.
Forces War Records haven't got him, and say "It would seem that the Full Service Record, is not available because it is held only by the Ministry of Defence (MoD), the remaining record is held by the MoD as it is still protected under the UK Data Protection Act and the MOD's own Policies."
So, where on earth was he in 1939? Is there a way to find out (that doesn't cost a lot of money!)?
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Forces War Records don't have any records of any significance!
You need to apply to the MOD, along with proof of death, and a £30 fee.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records
Incidentally, servicemen and women don't appear on the 1939 National Register.
Quoting from The National Archives:
3.2 Exceptions and anomalies among armed forces personnel
Registration of members of the armed forces was dealt with by the military authorities, so the 1939 Register does not include service personnel in military, naval and air force establishments. Nor does it include members of the armed forces billeted in private homes, including their own homes. However, since conscription did not begin in earnest until January 1940, most people who subsequently served in the armed forces during the Second World War were still civilians in September 1939.
The records do include
members of the armed forces on leave
civilians on military bases
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Incidentally, servicemen and women don't appear on the 1939 National Register
That's where my train of thought was going... I was trying to do it without it costing any more! I am a Yorkshireman after all!
Thanks for the link, looks like I might have to go down that route.
We'll get there in the end!
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Have you any record of him being in the services in WW1.
What was his occupation when he died.
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Have you any record of him being in the services in WW1.
What was his occupation when he died.
There are several Walter Huckin records showing up as "medal records" in WWI so I can't nail down the right one. Without the full service record from MOD I'm unlikely to know everything.
In 1922, according to the absentee voters' list, he was in the RASC.
I'm awaiting the death certificate in the post so not sure on occupation at the moment.
The *very* strange thing is he died in September 1961, and his wife remarried on 21 October 1961, *and* the marriage certificate shows that she was living at the same address as the chap she married. She was 80, he was 70... It's a small private house, so it's not a care home or some such. It's actually 10 minutes walk from where I live now!
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What address was the 1922 absent voter entry for.
I did wonder if that marriage was your Minnie :) Perhaps she had already split up from Walter and could not marry her new husband without a divorce from Walter. I see she died 3 years later.
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What address was the 1922 absent voter entry for.
I did wonder if that marriage was your Minnie :) Perhaps she had already split up from Walter and could not marry her new husband without a divorce from Walter. I see she died 3 years later.
Yes, It's my Minnie - I have the certificate here. :-)
I looked for divorce but couldn't find one. 1922 address is 108 Moor Lane Preston, and they are both registered as living there.
She was still there in 1924 - but this is a record of "trades" and she's a midwife.
UK, City and County Directories, 1766 - 1946 she is recorded as Huckin Mrs. Minnie Matilda L.O.S. 108 Moor Lane, Preston
The L.O.S. is her qualification.
In 1920/21 they are shown on the England & Wales, Electoral Registers 1920-1932 as both living at 108 Moor Lane.
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Minnie was showing in the Kelly's Trades directory as a Midwife, not an electoral register.
I wonder if LOS is her diploma :)
https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/library-services/heritage/rcm-genealogy.pdf
'In the meantime, the London Obstetrical Society opened up its diploma to midwives'
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Minnie was showing in the Kelly's Trades directory as a Midwife, not an electoral register.
I wonder if LOS is her diploma :)
https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/library-services/heritage/rcm-genealogy.pdf
'In the meantime, the London Obstetrical Society opened up its diploma to midwives'
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL%2FER%2F2017-12-12_12_02%2F00347&parentid=BL%2FER%2F2017-12-12_12_02%2F01414451
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Midwives roll 1934
19202 Huckin, Minnie Matilda -34 Brackenbury Road, Preston, Lancs
Date of enrolment 27 April 1905
Qualification L.O.S November 25th 1904
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Midwives roll 1934
19202 Huckin, Minnie Matilda -34 Brackenbury Road, Preston, Lancs
Date of enrolment 27 April 1905
Qualification L.O.S November 25th 1904
Thanks Rosie - I have most of that... its Walter John Huckin I can't find after 1922 until he dies in 1961
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I just posted it as you asked what LOS was. :).
LOS is not mentioned on the electoral register link that you posted.
Sometimes looking for others in the household helps us to locate who people are looking for. :)
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I'm starting to think in 1939 he's still in the RASC, hence not being listed in the register.
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As he was serving in the forces after 1920 his records will still be with the MOD
ADDED for anyone trying to help
1919 absent voters
7847 HUCKIN, Walter John
108 Moor Lane
R4/106799 L/Cpl., A.S.C., Remounts
Park / Q
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Burial at Preston Cemetery
18 Sep 1961
Walter John Huckin
age 77
residence 11 Whittingham Street Preston
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-M99M-F?i=186&cat=987517
Marriage
Dec 1961 Garstang 10c 509
Huckin, Minnie - spouse Wareing
Wareing, James - spouse Huckin
Death
June 1964 Garstang 10c 288
Wareing, Minnie M.
age 82
Probate for Minnie Matilda Wareing of 2 Park Hill Road Garstang, married woman, died 12 June 1964.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=wareing&yearOfDeath=1964&page=2#calendar
Was Minnie's surname amended on the '39 Register?
Seems to have married again at age 80, and so soon after Walter died.
Walter buried with a stranger.
These things happen, but could Walter and Minnie have been separated? :-\
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Marriage
Dec 1961 Garstang 10c 509
Huckin, Minnie - spouse Wareing
Wareing, James - spouse Huckin
Death
June 1964 Garstang 10c 288
Wareing, Minnie M.
age 82
Probate for Minnie Matilda Wareing of 2 Park Hill Road Garstang, married woman, died 12 June 1964.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=wareing&yearOfDeath=1964&page=2#calendar
Was Minnie's surname amended on the '39 Register?
Seems to have married again at age 80, and so soon after Walter died.
Walter buried with a stranger.
These things happen, but could Walter and Minnie have been separated? :-\
I've got all the details for Minnie. I have her marriage certificate to James Wareing, and in 1939 she was still Minnie Huckin. On the certificate it correctly shows William Heather as her father, so I'm confident this is correct.
Walter John buried with a stranger? Could you give me a link to that please?
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Hi
If you can use FamilySearch - free, but you need to be registered nowadays, then I have given a link to the burial of Walter.
And the graves register...
Graves Register
C of E Division
FF / 697
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-L7K1?i=133&cat=987517
Gives the register number of one other occupant. Seems to be Thomas Atkinson, buried a couple of months later.
Burial of Minnie Matilda Wareing, housewife, 16 June 1964, at Preston Cemetery
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-M9QV-9?i=254
She is in a private grave, Y / 84
The owner was Walter Huckin!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-MPX5?i=919&cat=987517
First one in was Lily Ruth Huckin, 16 September 1911. Age 11 months
Oh well, my separation idea may not be holding up!
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Hi
If you can use FamilySearch - free, but you need to be registered nowadays, then I have given a link to the burial of Walter.
And the graves register...
Graves Register
C of E Division
FF / 697
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-L7K1?i=133&cat=987517
Gives the register number of one other occupant. Seems to be Thomas Atkinson, buried a couple of months later.
Burial of Minnie Matilda Wareing, housewife, 16 June 1964, at Preston Cemetery
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-M9QV-9?i=254
She is in a private grave, Y / 84
The owner was Walter Huckin!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-V3D4-MPX5?i=919&cat=987517
First one in was Lily Ruth Huckin, 16 September 1911. Age 11 months
Oh well, my separation idea may not be holding up!
Lily was their first child, born Q4 1910
Intersting that he bought the plots...
I am registered on FamilySearch but haven't come across those records before.
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ADDED for anyone trying to help
1919 absent voters
7847 HUCKIN, Walter John
108 Moor Lane
From the free index to the electoral registers I can see
Minnie Matilda Huckin in P B of Preston, 1920-1930
but
Walter John Huckin in P B of Preston, 1920-1922
Why is that? :-\
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Lancashire Evening Post, 12.8.25
Minnie Huckin fined at Preston for keeping dog without a licence.
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Have you any record of him being in the services in WW1.
What was his occupation when he died.
There are several Walter Huckin records showing up as "medal records" in WWI so I can't nail down the right one.
In 1922, according to the absentee voters' list, he was in the RASC.
In case you hadn’t seen this on 1921/1922 Absentee voters list also gives his Regt. Number, Rank
Huckin Walter John
R/9442 L/cpl., R.A.S.C
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Have you any record of him being in the services in WW1.
What was his occupation when he died.
There are several Walter Huckin records showing up as "medal records" in WWI so I can't nail down the right one.
In 1922, according to the absentee voters' list, he was in the RASC.
In case you hadn’t seen this on 1921/1922 Absentee voters list also gives his Regt. Number, Rank
Huckin Walter John
R/9442 L/cpl., R.A.S.C
Yes, I'd seen that and Forces War Records can't find anything with the R/9442. In other years his number is ER/52799... which *does* result in a record:
https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/records/19468002/private-walter-huckin-army-service-corps/
Still doesn't tell me where he is in 1939!
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Lancashire Evening Post, 12.8.25
Minnie Huckin fined at Preston for keeping dog without a licence.
What?? Where did you find that? :-)
Edit: Found it!
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/Search/Results?BasicSearch="minnie%20huckin"&PhraseSearch=minnie%20huckin&ExactSearch=False&RetrieveCountryCounts=False&SortOrder=score
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OK... so... update...
Firstly though, thank you to all those who've contributed to this! :-)
Walter John Huckin died on 13 September 1961 at 32 Watling Street Road, Preston (which I can't find! 32a exists...)
He was a retired cemetery gardener. Cause of death was a) Congenital cardiac failure, b) myocardial deneration, c)arteriosclerosis
Minnie registered the death on 14 September (not letting the grass grow [no pun intended]) and was living with James Wareing at 2 Park Hill Road, Garstang at the time...
I'll be trying to get his records from the MoD soon, but until then I think that's about all we can gather about Walter John.
Thanks again - especially for the new source of the newspaper archives! :-)
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Is there any chance that No 32 could be the hospital or the barracks. Sorry I have no knowledge of the area :)
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Is there any chance that No 32 could be the hospital or the barracks. Sorry I have no knowledge of the area :)
The Barracks is right at the end, so no. Google Maps puts it next door to the Workhouse, which is still there (grade 2 listed).
I found this:
Rainbow Nursery
Category: Childrens Play Groups & Play Schools
Address: 32a Watling Street Road, Fulwood, Preston, Lancashire, PR2 8DY
... and on the map show it next door to the workhouse. might have to have a drive over and see!
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I have just 'walked' down the road from the barracks on google earth - when you get to the hospital there is an accountants on the other corner of that junction which is Number 34 Watling Street Road.
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I have just 'walked' down the road from the barracks on google earth - when you get to the hospital there is an accountants on the other corner of that junction which is Number 34 Watling Street Road.
I think I may give to physically walk it!!
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Let me know if you do, it would be interesting to know. OH's 2xgt grandfather was at the barracks before joining Lancashire police :)
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Let me know if you do, it would be interesting to know. OH's 2xgt grandfather was at the barracks before joining Lancashire police :)
In the meantime, I'm on Google Earth.... Mansard House, 28 Watling Street Road is there, and Fairmont care home next door is No. 30. Which means 32 is between Vicarage Lane and Sharoe Green Lane. That covers the stretch of road where the old work house was... which is now a business centre.
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Following your message I have just looked at Mansard House and Fairmont Care home, I was thinking it was the barracks next to the care home when I did my walk, sorry I now see it is not. We are however talking about the same place, so it was a hospital where he died then.
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I've just rung the care home to ask! :-) They said "Specilist Mobilty" is No 32, which is now in the old workhouse building. Their phone lines are closed now so need to call them tomorrow... :)
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https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2012/03/ghostly-memories-of-the-former-preston-workhouse-hospital/
Presumably this was the hospital
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=1392&page=54
It was common to have an address as opposed to the name of a hospital/workhouse on birth/death certificates. See Stans post, reply4
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=833966.msg6988399#msg6988399
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https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2012/03/ghostly-memories-of-the-former-preston-workhouse-hospital/
Presumably this was the hospital
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=1392&page=54
It was common to have an address as opposed to the name of a hospital/workhouse on birth/death certificates. See Stans post, reply4
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=833966.msg6988399#msg6988399
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/addresses/p.shtml
It was the poor house...
West Sussex Council appear to keep all the records (according to the National Archive) so I've sent an email asking about the admission records.
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I think you may be looking at the wrong workhouse - East Preston Workhouse in Sussex would be West Sussex Record Office.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/5ba25c84-d980-4ffe-8140-a8a3954961e4
Preston workhouse would be Lancashire RO.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Preston/