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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: coombs on Thursday 17 May 18 18:44 BST (UK)
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When doing genealogy do you ever become invested in one certain ancestor or one certain line, so much so that you totally leave other lines?
For instance I have become invested in my ancestor James Smith c1789-1849. Tin plate worker and brazier. (As said in my "Should I give up due to the common name thread")Lived in Oxford, Oxfordshire in 1841, not born in county, and was dead by 1851. And with a name like James Smith it is no easy task. In the past week or so I have made a few leads which could help so I feel a bit more relaxed but if I find the trail goes cold again, it may make me even more determined, or totally give up on him. He may be connected to Marsh Gibbon, Buckinghamshire. When he married in Oxford in 1819, one of the witnesses was Hannah Hawkes. More sleuthing found that her aunty Elizabeth born 1767 married a Joseph Smith in 1786. A good possible lead, but with a name like Smith, you must use caution. I since found a Thomas Smith aged 70, not born in county, a tin plate worker living in Marsh Gibbon in 1841.
FindMyPast has some Bucks records but unfortunately the Marsh Gibbon post 1754 marriages are from bishops transcripts instead of the original register. Often I have found that BT's just listed the name, date of wedding and parish for post 1754 marriages whereas the original register has witnesses, what parish, and often marital status. Witnesses to marriages in our ancestors are very vital.
James Smith is an example of an ancestor who I have virtually been channelling all my energy into in regards to my ancestry lately. It can be overwhelming.
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I think the thing to do is just follow your heart when researching. If your heart is telling you to just focus on one ancestor then I would just follow that course.
I once read a line on here .. sorry I can't remember now who penned it .. along the lines of 'they will be found when they want to be found'.
In my case, there is one ancestor in particular who maddenlngly, apparently doesn't want to be found. ;D This is my Great x 2 Grandmother, Elizabeth Conroy wife of James Conroy last seen in Durham living with daughter Mary Watson in 1881. I am starting to think she may have gone to Scotland. Over the census, different people in the census keep nipping of to Scotland, Lanarkshire in particular. Perhaps she may be hiding there! ::)
Coombs don't give up with an ancestor with a common name. I have been able to find common name ancestors several times. You just never know when a lucky break may be around the corner! :)
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Oh yes and lulled me into a false sense of security about my research abilities ::)
One line stayed in the same village for at least 800 yrs and it was only when I had exhausted all and any records from PRs to manorial and started to find nothing did I go to another line and it was like I knew nothing at all about how to research as they moved around, changed their names and married people with surnames like 'Smith'... ;D
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Definitely YES! My mission was to identify my great grandmother, who, it became evident, was my adoptive GGM. Her own heritage was misidentified in the documents at hand. Thinking them true, I stubbornly sought her out, for far too long. Moving on to other relatives as proxy, I found the biological side of things (maybe: no DNA) to finish my book Double Genealogy: the Adoption Witness.
Adoptive GGM's past actually emerged late in the research, but there are many who will remain hidden in the past, who can be well hinted by the study of those around them.
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Oh yes and lulled me into a false sense of security about my research abilities ::)
One line stayed in the same village for at least 800 yrs and it was only when I had exhausted all and any records from PRs to manorial and started to find nothing did I go to another line and it was like I knew nothing at all about how to research as they moved around, changed their names and married people with surnames like 'Smith'... ;D
I remember you saying in my Smith thread that you had a John Smith who died before 1851 and alive in 1841, and he said he was not born in county of residence in 1841, and how in the end you managed to find the right John Smith? Was he born in a neighbouring county or even further afield?
We are both in the same boat with a common name ancestor not born in county in 1841 census but dead by 1851 census.
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John Smith lied or maybe he didn't, he was 'baptised' in the county of Huntingdon but as far as I researched his mothers family were from there. He was in Rutland and that is where he lived in 1841 and I have his parents as witnesses to peoples marriages in Rutland, I have 'work invoices' showing his father worked in Rutland so maybe his mother returned home to mum for the birth and baptism in the 'family' church ( all this found afterwards, it took me a long time and the research was completely illogically found)
I found him by researching his children and then their extended lines and went off on lines completely unrelated to me finding one of his childrens' husband as a visitor on later census in Huntingdon...........and an off the wall AhAh moment of 'could Huntingdon be a potential place? Looked at the PRs ( just in case)...and found his baptism and his parents marriage.
Lots of piecing bits and pieces together, checking and double checking, cross referencing etc
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John Smith lied or maybe he didn't, he was 'baptised' in the county of Huntingdon but as far as I researched his mothers family were from there. He was in Rutland and that is where he lived in 1841 and I have his parents as witnesses to peoples marriages in Rutland, I have 'work invoices' showing his father worked in Rutland so maybe his mother returned home to mum for the birth and baptism in the 'family' church ( all this found afterwards, it took me a long time and the research was completely illogically found)
I found him by researching his children and then their extended lines and went off on lines completely unrelated to me finding one of his childrens' husband as a visitor on later census in Huntingdon...........and an off the wall AhAh moment of 'could Huntingdon be a potential place? Looked at the PRs ( just in case)...and found his baptism and his parents marriage.
Lots of piecing bits and pieces together, checking and double checking, cross referencing etc
Similar to what I am doing with my James Smith. The witnesses on his wedding are the 2 leads I have been following. I think the London born witness Andrew Carney may have just been a friend who worked in the same trade as I have done lots of research into James Carney's (Andrew's father, as Andrew said on his 3rd wedding in 1842) in London. The most likely is a James Carney who wed Mary Mattison in 1777 in St Martin In The Fields as I think Andrew came from that area as he wed in Soho in 1809. Andrew was born c1788. Not yet found his baptism or any siblings. I cannot find any Mattison marriages to a Smith or Carney marriages to a Smith that would fit.
But as said, the 1st witness to James Smith's marriage:- Hannah Hawkes had an aunty who wed a Joseph Smith in Marsh Gibbon, Bucks. Food for thought but nothing concrete. Hannah may have been a friend of the bride or groom and her aunt wed a Smith, and Smith is a popular name.
I am following my heart and doing lots of digging into James Smith, he is my ancestor of interest.
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I did 95% of my John Smith research pre internet so it was very difficult and took years of visiting records offices, grave yards etc however have found other records online since.
I often find trying to prove someone isn't an ancestor easier (reverse psychology maybe) and I tend to go off on a tangent with non related extended family especially if I find the family interesting or they open up other records I have not researched before ( as my lot are normal hard working, non criminals) however this has helped me.
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I did 95% of my John Smith research pre internet so it was very difficult and took years of visiting records offices, grave yards etc however have found other records online since.
I often find trying to prove someone isn't an ancestor easier (reverse psychology maybe) and I tend to go off on a tangent with non related extended family especially if I find the family interesting or they open up other records I have not researched before ( as my lot are normal hard working, non criminals) however this has helped me.
I bet you were over the moon when you got your breakthrough.
I am lucky to have a lot of resources online. I have been to plenty of record offices, and Oxford twice but at the time, James was not an ancestor of interest. I wish I had checked to see if there was Oxford city rate books etc, to see if they survived and left a clue.
He may have been from Berkshire, Bucks, Gloucestershire or further afield. He may have come from Devon or Cumberland for all I know. Oxford in the mid 1800s had people from all over Britain living there. In the 1851 census, people from as far away as Cornwall, Norfolk and Cumberland were living in Oxford.
But I think if James Smith's birth was handed to me on a silver platter and he lived to the 1851 census, it would not be as enthralling. The Marsh Gibbon link is good but it may be another red herring. I did find a 70 year old Thomas Smith in Marsh Gibbon in 1841, same occupation as James Smith. If he was a relation, he may have been his uncle as I think he first married in 1794 and had no children called James. Unless the marriage says he was a widower. Seems the Hawkes family moved from Buckinghamshire to Oxford city as well.
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Oxford Journal, Sat 30 January 1847
Died.—
On Wednesday last, aged 79, Thomas Smith, brazier, Marsh Gibbon
If that is your James who is buried at St Peter le Bailey, Oxford, in March 1849, then there's a ten year difference in his age compared with the likely death reg in the new index? Seems to be an announcement for him in a couple of papers on 3 March.
I do sympathize as I too have a Smith family who have driven me potty down the years.
John
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Oxford Journal, Sat 30 January 1847
Died.—
On Wednesday last, aged 79, Thomas Smith, brazier, Marsh Gibbon
If that is your James who is buried at St Peter le Bailey, Oxford, in March 1849, then there's a ten year difference in his age compared with the likely death reg in the new index? Seems to be an announcement for him in a couple of papers on 3 March.
I do sympathize as I too have a Smith family who have driven me potty down the years.
John
Thanks. The 1849 death on his burial was a mistake on their part I think. I have the death cert which says he was 59 but the burial says 49. He was 45-49 in the 1841 census - 8 years earlier. The vicar must have made a mistake when he heard James' age at burial. (Should have been given some cotton buds lolol). Info only as accurate as what is being told. James death cert says he died of phthisis, 3 years. Tin plate worker. Wife Sarah Smith registered the death. She died in 1858 and was born in Oxford in 1796.
Thanks also for the obituary of the Thomas Smith in 1847.
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... And I have a couple who, possibly to evade justice or spouses, ADOPTED the names .... John and Mary Smith.... and lived under those names for 30 or so years until he died, and was then buried under his correct surname! They really do do it to annoy, and haven't the excuse yours all have of being "real" Smiths.
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I am sure if his name was Bracegirdle or Marmaduke he'd be much easier. I have not found any James Smith baptised to a Joseph and Eliz Smith c1788-c1795 yet but the Marsh Gibbon link is something to go on as said. Keep plugging away and I will probably hit the jackpot. He could still be a relative of Andrew Carney though. Andrew was a metal turner and James a tin plate worker so they may have been friends who worked in the same/similar trade in Oxford.
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I tend to go through phases. I'll plug away at one person or line for a while then I'll get exasperated and move onto another.
Shona
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- Isn't that what we all do? Bash away until we're sure we've squeezed one line dry, then hang them on a hook, and potter off to annoy another bunch of ancestors?
Ty
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Well I have eased off a bit on James Smith in the last day or 2. Plenty of other ancestors to research. As said they will be found when they will be found. The common name will not put me off.
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I do have a couple of ancestors that I've spent more time researching than I'm be prepared to admit (and I wouldn't know anyway). I still have a couple of ancestors who just seemed to pop out of the ether in the mid 1800s.
I don't really have a research plan, so I potter away on one branch for a while. Then I might be distracted by a new DNA lead, or some new information that a cousin has found. At the moment I'm concentrating on the task of finding all the burials for one surname at a cemetery in Fife but I can only do it for an hour or two when the FHC is open and I'm also available so it may take me a couple of months to complete.
At the moment several things are coming together, particularly for one Scottish branch of the family, due to DNA and finding new records. It's very exciting.
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More Norfolk records came onto Ancestry last week and I found another child of Dennis and Elizabeth Helsdon (Nee Harbord) who wed in 1752. Their first known child Dennis was born in 1756. I then found on the 7th June 1754 a Sarah Helsdon baptised at St Michael At Thorn, Norwich thanks to the Bishop's Transcripts and Archdeacons transcripts. It opened up a whole new branch and she died in London in 1848. All her other siblings had moved to London, but one or 2 returned to Norwich.
Sarah Helsdon married John Langley in West Ham in 1782. Her brother Henry had a son called Langley Helsdon.
Dennis Helsdon married Susan Fradine in 1784 in Stepney. Susan is mentioned in the will of John Langley in 1820 as being of Northampton. Dennis died in 1798 and Susan remarried to Samuel Hollowell in 1814 in Burton Latimer, Northants. Not yet found her death but she was still alive in 1820 and of Northampton. Shows how new records coming online can give us missing rellies we never knew about.
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Every month or so I review my direct ancestors and check the folk furthest back on each line. Occasionally I come across a fresh nugget which has appeared online, and another half a day is needed to follow it up.
So not invested in one ancestor these days, but I did spend a LOT of time searching for my direct paternal gggg gf's origin. Found a lot about my ggg gf on the way, including nine different spellings of his surname - none of which matches mine!
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"They will be found when they want to be found..............."
My particular brickwall related to OH Gt grandmother Lucy Nurse (nee Greaves/Grieves/Greeves) who disappeared from view in South Shields in about 1878 after the birth of her fourth daughter.
Family myth and rumour had it that she had run off with a butcher from Jarrow.
I searched for 10 years looking for traces of her and followed many blind alleys in my search.
It was only by chance, surfing the net for someone else that I eventually got a positive lead and found her.
In the process of leaving her husband and taking up with another man she was know by a number of aliases and when she eventually married her new man (declaring herself a widow in the process) they continued the subterfuge and changed their surnames.
Not only changing names but also successive entries in the Census records from 1881 to 1911 their places of origin/birth also changed each time. They obviousyt did not want to be traced and their secret was safe for over 100 years.
Likewise her 5th daughter (the first of the second round) has also disappeared from the the radar but we live in hope for a breakthrough on that score at some time.......
"They will be found when they want to be found....................."