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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: agray1949 on Thursday 17 May 18 21:45 BST (UK)
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Is there a way to look at the 1939 register for Scotland in the same way that you can see the England & Wales version on Find My Past.
From what I can gather you have to purchase each record individually.
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This seems the only way:
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/nhs-central-register/about-the-register/1939-national-identity-register-and-how-to-order-an-official-extract
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The register taken in Scotland in 1939 was called the "National Identity Register" it contains details of Name, address, marital status, age and occupation.
It is not available to view online. You are correct that each record has to be purchased individually at a cost of £15 plus 89p postage. Quite expensive unless you absolutely need the record.
Hope this helps.
Dorrie
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That is what I suspected & it is such a shame that we cannot get better access. I have checked some of my wife's relations on find my past & it was really helpful, but I don't really want to be paying out nearly £16 for a transcript from Scotland.
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I know this is an old thread but hopefully someone can help me. I am wanting to order an extract from the 1939 Register for a relative who died in 1944. I know her name as spelled on her DC, but she also went by variant spellings over the years. Will they still be able to find her as long as the date of death is correct? And since she died in Scotland, I don't need to include proof of death, correct? Also, I am in the US so can I just include a US check for the equivalent in pounds sterling? I'd really rather not send all the CC info through the mails. And I need to include 3 pound .10p for return Air mail, correct? So a total of 18 pound 10 p? Sorry if I am saying these things wrong as I don't really know how to deal with UK currency being from the US! This is a lot of trouble to go through, but I have never found a BC or exact date for this relative so I am wanting to get that info from the Register. Thank you for any help!
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Hi Fogmoose,
Do you want the information from the 1939 Register which covered England etc or is it from the 1939 Scottish Identity Register?
If you can clarify that we may be able to help.
Dorrie
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can I just include a US check for the equivalent in pounds sterling?
Their web site says, "We accept payment by Debit/Credit card, Sterling cheque and British postal order".
So the answer is no to a check in US$. The cost of clearing cheques in currencies other than sterling is high enough make it an uneconomic option for both you and the NRS.
I'm surprised that there isn't an option to pay online with a card.
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I don't think you will be able to get an exact date of birth though.
"it is only possible to provide limited information on the named individual; namely their address in 1939, marital status, age and occupation."
flst
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Ohh, that is so infuriatingly stupid! So all they give you is the age of the person, which they calculate from the exact date of birth? Why not just give you the date of birth? Especially since it's well before 1910, it's not like the person could still be living and you are going to steal their identity! How stupid...that and the fact that they expect you to send all your credit card info in the post, all someone needs to do is steal the letter and they can run up my credit card to the maximum! And yet they say right ON the form...."We don't recommend sending your credit card information in the mail!" Well how is someone outside the UK supposed to pay then? Who makes this stuff up?!
The hell with it!
Thanks for the info everyone. GG-Grandma's Birth date is destined to remain unknown, it seems.
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I am with you there - monumentally stupid and exceedingly annoying.
Was great-great-grandma born before 1 January 1855?
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Hi Fogmoose,
If you have the death cert. which should give you an approximate age & her parents names. You should be able to check on Scotland's people for a birth certificate unless it was before 1855.
Even so you could still be lucky with the Old Parish registers.
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I agree it does seem exceedingly stupid and annoying for those who live outside the UK. From what I can gather the information is very limited anyway.
Have you tired posting your gg grandma's information here on rootschat and asking for help with finding her birth?
Dorrie
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It is even more annoying when you consider how good the 1939 register is in England.
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Fogmoose, it actually says it does not recommend sending your card details by email, not mail.
flst
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Fogmoose, it actually says it does not recommend sending your card details by email, not mail.
flst
Yes, I realized that when I re-read it just a bit earlier. Still a stupid way to do things, should just be able to order it online.
And in answer to others queries, yes she was born before Civil Registration and No, there is nothing in the OPR sadly. Found her 2 older brothers, but nothing for her. I am pretty certain she was born in 1851 sometime after the census since she does not appear in the 1851 census with her mother and 2 brothers.
And yes, I have posted about her before and gotten LOTS of help from the RC folks! Quite a good read for those interested! https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764025.msg6157534#msg6157534
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...that and the fact that they expect you to send all your credit card info in the post, all someone needs to do is steal the letter and they can run up my credit card to the maximum!
That is the bank's problem, not yours. Read your Federal Laws regarding credit card fraud.
I usually do my overseas transactions by phone as it is cheaper than paying the fees on foreign currency cheques, and I have purchased documents from the NRS in this way.
Debra :)
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...that and the fact that they expect you to send all your credit card info in the post, all someone needs to do is steal the letter and they can run up my credit card to the maximum!
That is the bank's problem, not yours. Read your Federal Laws regarding credit card fraud.
I usually do my overseas transactions by phone as it is cheaper than paying the fees on foreign currency cheques, and I have purchased documents from the NRS in this way.
Debra :)
I am well aware of the credit card fraud laws. And I believe that you cannot purchase 1939 Register extracts over the phone. And while it may indeed be mostly the banks problem, it certainly is still a problem for the card holder...one that could easily be avoided, it would seem, if someone at NRS used a bit of foresight.
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And yes, I have posted about her before and gotten LOTS of help from the RC folks!
Ah, yes, I remember reading that saga :)
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Just to further this a little bit, this is from another forum
I have my Father's entry for the 1939 Scotland Register. I bought it some years ago when the Register first became available. I don't remember where I bought it from or how much it cost but I do remember being underwhelmed by what it contained:
Address
Name
Gender
Date of Birth
Marital status
Occupation
So it does look like they provide a date of birth. In fact exactly what is on the England and Wales version.
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Just to further this a little bit, this is from another forum
I have my Father's entry for the 1939 Scotland Register. I bought it some years ago when the Register first became available. I don't remember where I bought it from or how much it cost but I do remember being underwhelmed by what it contained:
Address
Name
Gender
Date of Birth
Marital status
Occupation
So it does look like they provide a date of birth. In fact exactly what is on the England and Wales version.
Yes, I saw that post as well. But others on here have said that is NOT the case. I wish we could have some more confirmation. That poster may have been mistaken, as he said it was several years ago. Perhaps he is mis-remembering or they have changed the information they provide in the meantime.
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This discussion seems to be going round in circles.
See Reply No 7 in this thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=793650.msg6623877#msg6623877, which quotes directly from the National Records of Scotland's information leaflet https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//registration/leaflet-nr-2018.pdf
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I did read the whole thread, :) but thought I would include what was said on another forum about the d.o.b. I too want the d.o.b of someone but am not going to fork out £15 for the info if that is not included. However I have since come across this from Chris Paton in 2010 which includes a mocked up version of the register, which does include the d.o.b.
http://scottishancestry.blogspot.com/2010/01/1939-scottish-national-registration.html (http://scottishancestry.blogspot.com/2010/01/1939-scottish-national-registration.html)
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I have contacted him to confirm that this is the case :)
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Have heard from Chris, the 1939 Scottish register does include the Date Of Birth! :)
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Have heard from Chris, the 1939 Scottish register does include the Date Of Birth! :)
Yes, but WHEN did Chris order his extract? In his OP he claims it was "several years" ago. I would tend to believe what is posted currently on the NRS website rather than something from years ago. They may very well have changed the policy, and until I see proof from someone who ordered RECENTLY, they are not getting my money.
EDIT: I seem to be confusing Chris with the post you quoted form another forum, but either way, both of them are quite old information. Until someone posts the Extract they received recently, I am holding off. Come on RootsChatters, someone must be able to help us! Happy Holidays All!
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Have heard from Chris, the 1939 Scottish register does include the Date Of Birth!
Having read all the information on the NRS web site, my understanding is that the register shows the DoB, but the information being made available includes the age.
The thing to do is to drop an e-mail to NRS to ask them whether the exact DoB is included in the information you get when you buy an extract from the Register.
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Have heard from Chris, the 1939 Scottish register does include the Date Of Birth!
Having read all the information on the NRS web site, my understanding is that the register shows tha DoB, but the information being made available includes the age.
The thing to do is to drop an e-mail to NRS to ask them whether the exact DoB is included in the information you get when you buy an extract from the Register.
Yes, Agree that would be the best course of action barring anyone who recently ordered an extract chiming in to give us the current status.
EDIT: I sent an email to NRS. We will see what they say.
Received a reply, here it is:
Dear Rich,
Thank you for contacting Scotlandspeople.
Yes an extract from the 1939 Register does give the date of birth.
Kind Regards
Denise
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Good news :)
Still a bit steep though at £15, but if it helps with that brick wall........
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I know it is an old thread.
I have a relative born and raised in Wales but is not on the England/Wales version.
Is it possible to know if she is included on the Scotland version?
I know her date of birth and within the family, at that time there was someone from Scotland.
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The Scotland version is basically a waste of time. You have to tell them the information & all you will get is the information for that one person, unlike the England version which gives you the whole page. I am not aware of another method of searching but you could try Scottish indexes on face book & they may help you.
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Is the register in full without redacted entries? It is the only thing I can think of that justifies their attitude.
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I am not sure about the Scottish version because I have not used it but I should imagine there will be certain redactions.
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Please see my Reply #2 in 2018. Which explains what you get.
Dorrie
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I had read your reply and know what you receive; that was not my question.
I wanted to know if someone could search the register as i have name and date of birth.
It would seem not.
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I had read your reply and know what you receive; that was not my question.
I wanted to know if someone could search the register as i have name and date of birth.
It would seem not.
The 1939 Register and all available Census records were all sealed under the ironically titled Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act. The Act brought into legal force the previously unofficial but enforced 100 year rule (which is why in Scotland the 1921 census was not available at the same time as the English version).
However given the nature of the information in the #39 Register and its subsequent use through the years by the NHS who also added various pieces of information it is not clear just when the Register will be made available (if ever) but 2040 appears to be the earliest we will find out.
Added On the plus side the 1931 Scottish Census survived and will be released at the end of its 100yr sealing (roll on 2032 ::) )