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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: MaCenzie on Friday 18 May 18 18:55 BST (UK)

Title: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: MaCenzie on Friday 18 May 18 18:55 BST (UK)
Does anyone know anything about a Benjamin Wright? dob 1871? in Staffordshire. He was married to Lottie Inette and lived in Walsden. They had 8 children  George, Benjamin, David, Frank, Joseph,  Fanny, Lottie, Jesse. Benjamin died in Walsden, Todmorden in 1935. He worked as a boatman on the canals. He had a brother/half brother Joseph who was born and lived in Runcorn Cheshire and was married to Alice Dyer and they had a daughter Jane. I believe his father was Benjamin Wright from his marriage cert. in Runcorn 1893. I am unable to find any record of his birth or early life.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Friday 18 May 18 19:22 BST (UK)
In the Cheshire Parish Baptisms there is a Joseph Wright baptised in Runcorn in 1878 -- whose father was named Benjamin - a Waterman. Mother Martha. I wonder if he is the brother/half brother.

On the marriage cert you have for Benjamin - was his father's occupation also 'Waterman' or the like?
If so - the family may have been on boats, here there and everywhere at census time (although if docked they should be enumerated).
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 18 May 18 19:27 BST (UK)
1881 for Benjamin Wright Snr

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q272-X4W6
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Friday 18 May 18 19:31 BST (UK)
Yes the 1881 census for Benjamin Wright aged 50 in Runcorn - Boatman, born Wolverhampton -- with wife Martha also 50 born Tipton, shows several children, but no Benjamin junior who would be old enough to have left the family.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 18 May 18 19:31 BST (UK)
1871  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5Y3-1K8

Edited Betsy is Dau. Bapt on familysearch mother Caroline
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 18 May 18 19:39 BST (UK)
WRIGHT, JESSE    Mmn   BERRESFORD     
GRO Reference: 1867  J Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 66   

WRIGHT, BETSY       BERRESFORD     
GRO Reference: 1857  S Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 33   
 
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 18 May 18 20:02 BST (UK)
There is a 1871 marriage to Martha Fisher.

Previous marriage 1854 to Caroline Beresford, some bapts for children on familysearch

Possible Death
WRIGHT, CAROLINE    Age   36     
GRO Reference: 1870  D Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 25   
 
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 18 May 18 20:29 BST (UK)
Benjamin is a widow in 1871. Think poss Martha is his mother?

Need to work out the maiden name of Martha. Could have been married previous, or Benjamin may have been born before the couple possibly married. Maybe Caroline died in childbirth  ???

Not much help, no time at mo, off to work.

Cas
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Friday 18 May 18 20:37 BST (UK)
I wonder if Martha had also been married previously and Benjamin was a son of that marriage? I can't see him on the GRO index registered in Staffordshire with a mother's maiden name of Fisher. Maybe that was her previous married name.

Can't find his birth under Fisher though.

There is a Martha Fisher, Widow living on a boat in Tipton (given as her birth place later) - occupation Cabin Boat Steerer? -- aged 28 -- with a 2 year old daughter Mary in 1871. That is probably Benjamin senior's soon to be wife.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Saturday 19 May 18 09:34 BST (UK)
Also on the same boat as Martha Fisher and daughter Mary in 1871 is a William Beresford (Mate) -- a surname which crops in Cas's message as a maiden name for children's births to Benjamin senior's possible previous wife - Caroline Beresford.

In 1851 there is both a Caroline Berresford aged 15, with a younger sister Martha, aged 8 - living in Tipton with presumably a stepfather named Hunt and a mother Ann.

Their stepfather is also a boatman. Looks like Caroline the first wife and Martha the second wife of Benjamin Wright -- were sisters.

If this is the case the maiden name of Benjamin junior's mother should be Beresford/Berresford. However I can't see a registered birth for him at the moment.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: MaCenzie on Saturday 19 May 18 17:42 BST (UK)
Many thanks for all the replies. I have come across the Beresfords and Fishers of Tipton but I am unable to verify anything.The only evidence I have is Benjamin and Lotties marriage in 1893 in Runcorn naming the father as Benjamin Wright.I have evidence of Lottie and children living in Walsden Todmorden and Lottie being present at Benjamins death in 1935 in Todmorden.
He was down on the death cert as Benjamin Wright age 64.I cannot find any records of a birth for a Benjamin Beresford,Benjamin Fisher or a Benjamin Wright born in Staffordshire around 1871.I am not sure what evidence was required in 1935 for a burial I would  have thought a birth cert would be required as evidence of who you were?
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Saturday 19 May 18 18:53 BST (UK)
I don't think evidence of identity was needed then, the Registrar simply took the details given to him by the informant as far as I know. hence such things as age at death depended on what the informant thought!

It may be a good idea to obtain the marriage certificate of Benjamin Wright senior to a Martha Fisher which occurred in 1871 --- Dudley Registration District. This should give her father's name, which will be evidence of her maiden name. (I suspect Fisher to be her first married name).

Also on the marriage cert you have for Benjamin junior -- does it give his father's occupation as Boatman or Waterman or the like please? If it does, that will be more evidence that the Benjamin Wright on the 1881 census in Runcorn, with wife Martha and several children - is the correct father (or who he thinks is his father.)

Like you I am struggling with this case -- if the family were travelling on the waterways, it may just be that a formal birth registration was not made -- but Martha's actual maiden name from her marriage cert to Benjamin senior in 1871 would be very useful.

(The person with Martha Fisher, widow in 1871 -- shown as 'Mate' was a William Beresford -- and there is a William Beresford, brother of both the Caroline and the Martha Beresford on the 1851 census -- but this MAY just be a coincidence.)

Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: MaCenzie on Saturday 19 May 18 19:08 BST (UK)
Ta, yes Benjamin senior and Junior were both watermen and I have a strong feeling they are connected somehow.The christian names of both  their children are the same. I will order a Marriage cert for Benjamin and Martha at Runcorn 1871.Will let you know, many thanks.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Saturday 19 May 18 19:18 BST (UK)
M. According to the GRO index, which now shows mother's maiden names in the majority of cases -- 2 of the daughters with Benjamin and Martha in 1881 have a mother's maiden name of Beresford - viz;

Jane Wright - registered Runcorn in 1875 - mother's maiden name Beresford
Kate Wright - registered 1880 in Runcorn - mother's maiden name Beresford

However I am really struggling to find the other childrens' births with that maiden name at the moment. I just feel like I'm missing something! I am hoping someone else will pop up having found them -- especially the missing Benjamin junior! (I don't mind looking like an idiot if I'm missing something obvious -- I'm used to it!!)

Also where is Benjamin in 1881 -- I am assuming he is a Boat Boy at the moment, but we should never assume.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Saturday 19 May 18 19:37 BST (UK)
Just found Joseph Wright registered in Runcorn in 1878 - mother's maiden name Beresford.

Either ages are wrong in 1881 or some births were registered late.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Saturday 19 May 18 20:20 BST (UK)
I don't know if this helps or not - but in 1901 Benjamin senior and Martha are in Stretford, Lancs and a 'son' aged 15, William has appeared - born Runcorn. Benjamin is 73 and Martha 56. Benjamin's birthplace has changed.

In 1911 Benjamin and Martha are back in Runcorn - he is a pensioner boatman. They state they have been married for 40 years, had 7 children born alive, but 1 of these has died.

Benjamin shown as 78 and Martha 68. Clearly attention to detail re ages is not important to them. However his birth place has reverted back to Wolverhampton.
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 20 May 18 19:39 BST (UK)
1861 Captain of a boat https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7DS-RX6
RG09 Piece number   2031 Folio   111 Page   1

Benjamin Snr wife Caroline have 4 children with them also a Martha Beddesfoot/ford ??? Age 13 or 15, boat girl. entry has been crossed through as did not sleep on boat on night of census. First born child was Jane, Betsey, twins George & Thomas.

Like Pennines am struggling to locate a birth reg for Benjamin Jnr.

Who were the witness and address of Benjamin & Lottie on marriage cert? All clues can sometimes help.

Cas
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Sunday 20 May 18 20:24 BST (UK)
Great find Cas,

This is a real mystery isn't it. Funnily enough I had wondered if Benjamin had been registered under a completely different name - or had simply been taken on by the family and given the name Benjamin.

In addition the number of children Benjamin senior and Martha have stated they have had --- (on 1911 census) -- is 7.

According to 1881 census they have;
Jessie 14 b Tipton
David 12 b Tipton
Sarah 10 b Tipton
Jane 8 b Runcorn
Joseph 6 b Runcorn
Kate 2 b Runcorn

Can't find them in 1891
In 1901 there is a William aged 15 b Runcorn.

Hence the number of children THEY have had doesn't correspond -- but maybe the couple were confused by the question.

Jessie must have been Caroline's child -- so were David and maybe Sarah (if ages are correct on the census) also Caroline's children? In addition what happened to the 2 year old Mary Fisher, with Martha Fisher in 1871?

My head is aching!!
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 20 May 18 21:15 BST (UK)
1891 at 55 Nelson St, Runcorn, no Benjamin present 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:49CS-6W2

Martha age 46, Jane 15, Kate 11 and 2 extra children Alice 9 William 6

Cas
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 20 May 18 21:59 BST (UK)
Both marriages for Benjamin are on freereg

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/59db97ecf493fd9402486724?search_id=5b01e108f493fd61e77731c1&ucf=false Martha

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/59f712c2f493fd194fa59799?search_id=5b01e23bf493fd61e7773819&ucf=false Caroline

Info suggests they were sisters.

Cas
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 20 May 18 22:13 BST (UK)
Found his bapt. Looks like Ben Jnr was Martha's

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817df83e93790eca30c1c91?search_id=5b01e4a2f493fd61e77747ec&ucf=false Benjamin bapt 1872 s/o Benjamin/Martha, Boatman, Toll Bridge

Other bapts for Benjamin Snr children on freereg, not checked all.

Cas
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: Pennines on Monday 21 May 18 11:25 BST (UK)
Cas ---- you absolute star!

I always forget about FreeReg -- interesting that it was at a Non-conformist chapel. You have solved the quandary - Benjamin Wright was the son of Benjamin Wright, Boatman and Martha Beresford.

Both had been married previously and Martha - together with Benjamin's first wife, Caroline - had a father named George Beresford. Almost definitely they were sisters.

It looks like Benjamin junior spent his early life working on boats from a very young age -- likely missing the censuses - or not declared on them.

Very well done Cas. (My headache has gone!!)
Title: Re: wright family todmorden abt 1920
Post by: MaCenzie on Monday 21 May 18 14:06 BST (UK)
Cas and Pennines what brilliant news. Looks like old Benjamin was a busy man. Many thanks.