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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: gliderf5j on Sunday 20 May 18 13:52 BST (UK)
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hi does anyone know what happened to my grandparents James b1869 and Sarah b1873 Lewis nee Eaglestone? Last known about in Brighton 1913-1914,hoping someone can help, glider f5j
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
Have you checked the 1939 National Register? Available on Ancestry and FindMyPast.
Or checked the Death Indexes at FreeBMD.org.uk?
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Welcome to rootschat
Just to place this couple prior to 1913 for anyone trying to help
They married in Dover reg dist 1892
Eaglestone Sarah
Lewis James Samuel (he also appears on the index as just Samuel)
This is the family in 1901 without father James
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X982-TKN
Added
Birth - LEWIS, MARY ANN mmn EAGLESTONE
1913 June Quarter in BRIGHTON
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Children of James and Sarah:
Emily Maria Sept.qtr.1892 Dover
Elizabeth Ann Sept.qtr.1898 Dover
Annie Mar.qtr.1901 Greenwich
Catherine June qtr.1903 Greenwich
James Samuel Sept.qtr.1905 Greenwich
Stephen Sept.qtr.1907 Greenwich
Sarah June qtr.1909 Brighton )
George June.qtr.1909 Brighton ) twins
Alice June.qtr.1911 Brighton
Mary Ann June qtr.1913 Brighton
Can only see - I think - from free 1911 index 4 of the above children. No obvious entries for the other children or the parents which you would expect to have been in Brighton as last child born there 2 years later.
Which one of their children is your mother/father? Where did they marry/live?
Annette
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1901 census. Sarah with the first 3 children are at Deptford St Paul
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/7814/LNDRG13_526_527-0454/3998933?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1901%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3delizabeth%2520ann%26gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dlewis%26gsln_x%3d0%26msbdy%3d1898%26msydy%3d1901%26msypn__ftp%3dgreenwich%26msfng%3djames%26msfns%3dlewis%26msmng%3dsarah%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dbf5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
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Link for 1901 given in last post only works if you have an ancestry account. ;)
I previously gave this link to it on familysearch
This is the family in 1901 without father James
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X982-TKN
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sorry Rosie :-)
POSSIBLY James and Stephen in 1911 (although ages a bit out) aged 4 & 3 respectively and says both born Greenwich with the Sisters of Charity at Mottingham House, Mottingham
15/19/3719
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Is James recorded as still alive on your parents' marriage certificate?
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To Annette7 Thanks for the info about the Lewis children, i allready know this, there was also a Rosie who was living with her grandparents,my mother was Sarah who married and lived in Gloucestershire Glider5fj
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rosie99 thanks for the info i allready new it glider5fj
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And a warm welcome to Rootschat from me.
Is James recorded as still alive on your parents' marriage certificate?
That is a great point.
It could also be worth asking around any cousins who might remember seeing them at family events, have parents' marriage certs, or have photos which can be dated.
Another possibility is to check electoral rolls https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/libraries/reference/electoral-registers/ has them, but I don't know if they have been put online.
Philip
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Have you got the exact dates of birth of either of them - so that you can search the 1939 register to see if they are still alive then?
Did your Mother ever talk about them, or was she brought up elsewhere?
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rosie99 thanks for the info i allready new it glider5fj
The information that was given was to help others who are trying to help you. ;) The births given by Annette can also help us. It is always a good idea to post additional information like this when requesting help as it can sometimes lead to what you are after
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To chempat,Phillipsearching,Rosie99 and others who have been in touch sorry have delated some of your messages,I have found my mothers elder siblings since doing family history,so dont know if my mother knew about them as they were all bought up in childrens homes. on my mothers wedding cert,she names her father as George John no James though she had a birth cert. I have looked on 1939 census no success, my mother was Sarah Lewis,hope that answers eveyone,Gliderf5j
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Is this James Samuel's birth registration :-\
LEWIS, JAMES SAMUEL - mmn BALLARD
1869 Dec Quarter in DOVER reg dist
Volume 02A Page 868
Living in Dover in 1871 with parents John & Maria
RG10 /1011 f63 p42
Parents marriage
Sep qtr 1853
BALLARD Maria Elizabeth
LEWIS John Williams
Dover 2a 962
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As the youngest child was born in Brighton in 1913, I looked on FreeBMD for deaths in Brighton after that date.
There is a possible death for James aged 65 Dec qtr 1934 (vol 2b p317), but no sign of Sarah. My instinct is that this may be a red herring, but it is worth checking further.
As (at least some of) the children were placed in children's homes I am wondering if records are searchable - this is not an area of research I am familiar with. Would records give years of admission, addresses and reasons? Would they be sealed for 100 years? Perhaps another Rootschatter can help with .
This could be a long, slow search because there are so many LEWIS names to check and eliminate.
Philip
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Do you have James and Sarah's dates of birth
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rosie99 you had james dob 22 oct 1869 and his parents marriage aug 1853, mmn ballard phillip searching i know the dates the children wnt into but not why, ithink they were a poor family and i think james was a petty criminal glider5fj
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phillipsearching you know i meant when the children went into homes gliderf5j
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rosie99 you had james dob 22 oct 1869 and his parents marriage aug 1853, mmn ballard
Thank you for James date of birth ;D
I only had the quarter the birth was registered in and you had not confirmed that I had the right family so I have not been looking further. I will see what I can find tomorrow unless anyone else can help
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phillip searching i know the dates the children wnt into but not why, ithink they were a poor family and i think james was a petty criminal glider5fj
phillipsearching you know i meant when the children went into homes gliderf5j
Thank you for the clarification.
I was hoping that if we could establish dates for when the children went into homes, and if either or both parents were living at the time (and where), it could move the search later than 1913.
If you could let us know when and where the children went into homes it could help track the family's movements and narrow down the search.
All the best
Philip
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There seem to be a number of admissions to and discharges from Greenwich Union. However, any that mention a husband/father give his name as John? Family seems to match otherwise?
Here is one...
Admitted to Greenwich Union 13 Apr 1908
Sarah Lewis 34 R.C. Married 11 Roan St Husband John in prison.
Annie 6
Kate 4
James 2
Stephen 9/12 Children of above.
Other records have various combos of mother and children.
Anyway, food for thought.
PB
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rosie99 good luck with your seaching gliderf5j phillip searching dont think James lewis d in 1934 dont think its the right one Sarah and George admitted to Warren school farm august 1914 from 40 hendon st Brighton.Alice deserted admitted november 1914 no address ,Mary admitted march1916 address unknown the. the older children went in homes in London in 1908 glider f5j polarbear i know about Sarahs workhouse admissions so sad, she went in several times with the children, the last time was august 1908 sarah was on her own then she ran away,John is on Alice and Marys birth certs as their father,glider5fj
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Do you have Sarah's birth date :-\
Birth June qtr 1873
EAGLESTONE Sarah
Croydon 2a 208
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rosie99 Sarahs dob is may 12 1873 gliderf5j
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Thank you
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I'm getting a little confused, so I want to summarise (for my own benefit).
MARRIAGE - Dover 1892 - James LEWIS (b 22 Oct 1869 Dover) to Sarah EAGLESTONE (b 12 May 1873 Croydon reg dist)
Children of James and Sarah:
Emily Maria - Sep qtr 1892 Dover
Elizabeth Ann - Sep qtr 1898 Dover
Annie Mar qtr - 1901 Greenwich
Catherine Jun - qtr 1903 Greenwich
James Samuel - Sep qtr 1905 Greenwich
Stephen - Sep qtr 1907 Greenwich
Sarah and George - Jun qtr 1909 Brighton
Alice - Jun qtr 1911 Brighton
Mary Ann - Jun qtr 1913 Brighton
At least one spell of imprisonment of James (1908) and admission of children to homes in Greenwich Union in 1900s (father named as John, but other details match).
Last sighting of James and Sarah LEWIS - birth of daughter Mary Ann 1913 Brighton.
Sarah & George admitted to Warren School Farm (aged 5) in 1914 - home address 40 Hendon Street, Brighton. Alice admitted (aged 5) in 1916 - no home address given.
The unresolved question: What became of James and Sarah?
Possible death for James (1934 age 65) in Brighton, but may be unlikely.
No death found for Sarah in Brighton.
Were James and Sarah still together after 1913?
Did they appear on electoral rolls in Brighton after 1913?
Did James go back to prison after 1913 - if so, where?
What happened to Mary Ann, and is a living parent named on her record?
If they moved on from Brighton, where did they go? (back to Dover or Croydon?)
The search goes on!
Philip
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Phillipsearching Mary Ann was admitted to Warren street farm March 1916 mother Sarah, there was another daughter Rose Agnes b Dec qtr 1896 she was living with grandparents on 1901 census gliderf5j good luck
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These two are a struggle, I am Mary's youngest grandchild. I didn't realise that there were more children until a few months ago. It's hard work it's like they just disappeared. How ever I did find a death record for Sarah Lewis in Lewisham in 1938 she was 65, same birth date. I always believed that the last four children were placed into st Ann's orphanage and st Josephs orphanage in orpington Kent. My Grandmother Mary would have been around 18 months old, she talked about being looked after by nuns?
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These two are a struggle, I am Mary's youngest grandchild. I didn't realise that there were more children until a few months ago. It's hard work it's like they just disappeared. How ever I did find a death record for Sarah Lewis in Lewisham in 1938 she was 65, same birth date. I always believed that the last four children were placed into st Ann's orphanage and st Josephs orphanage in orpington Kent. My Grandmother Mary would have been around 18 months old, she talked about being looked after by nuns?
Greetings, and a warm welcome to Rootschat (a wonderful site to help with research and find new cousins).
This is a tricky search, but we'll get there in the end!
Philip
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Hi Thanks for the welcome, i wrote to Diagrama (until recently known as Cabrini), in 2015 about the records they may hold about Mary Ann Lewis born 1913 (my grandmother). They hold the records for St Ann's Orphanage in Orpington Kent. Even though I provided all the information they required, lineage, birth cert,death certs and permissions etc they would not allow me access to the records. I think that those records hold the information that explains what happened to Sarah and James Lewis. However I will say they did not either confirm or deny they had any record, just that I could not have any access.
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This is a message sent to me in error from flider for lolprob. To reply to topics on RootsChat you need to log in and then click on the blue reply button at the end of the topic ;) Regards Sarah
To Lolprob
I am Sarah's [Mary's sister] daughter, i started the family search about 15 yrs ago had a researcher helping me,
He found Mary and her siblings were firstly admitted into a home called Warren Street Farm in Brighton in the
years 1914-1916, they then went into the convents in July 1919..He tried to find thier records but was told they
could have been destroyed.The death of Sarah A Lewis you found, i don't think is the right one.she is Sarah A
Sarah was just Sarah,the age is 65 on death in early 1938 our Sarah would have been 65 in the May, Did you
know that Mary and Alice have John Lewis as thier father on thier birth certificates, all the other children have
James Samual as thier father. from fliderf5j
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Hi, yes I remember Aunty Sarah and Uncle Percy I am your cousin Anne's daughter. Thanks for the information its so complicated and with my nanny Mary being so young at the time she couldn't really remember much. I also never realised that Sarah's family (eaglestone) were pratically all Irish. I always assumed its was just my Grandad Bill ( your uncle) that was Irish. You might have better luck contacting Cabrini directly being a direct descendent. I never applied for information about your mum, george and alice because I knew they wouldn't give it to me. I applied just for Mary, I just a got a flat No. But they didn't say they didn't have it or the records have been destroyed. I kind of think the catholic church doesn't destroy records unless it happens by accident.it might be worth a try. Cabrini took over the records from the children's catholic society who ran the convent. Let me know if you decide to contact them. :)
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The access to records can be restricted because if there is information on the same page or record about someone who may still be alive, then access for you to see it will be denied. Some archives allow one of their own staff to transcribe or copy just the part relevant to your enquiry. The Catholic Church records can particularly hard to access.
The death of Sarah A Lewis you found, i don't think is the right one.she is Sarah A
Sarah was just Sarah,the age is 65 on death in early 1938 our Sarah would have been 65 in the May,
flider - the age on a death registration is only as good as the knowledge of the informant. A month or two out is nothing!! And the informant may have added the middle initial...
Deaths Mar 1938
LEWIS Sarah A 65 Lewisham 1d 1101
Perhaps a burial record can be found which may give actual date of birth & address at time of death. Do you have the death certificate, Lolprob? Perhaps this Lewisham Sarah can be traced back...