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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: nikitah on Sunday 20 May 18 18:43 BST (UK)
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Hi , not sure this is the right place if not some kind person might help point me in the right direction. Kate Kent married John Huddart at Carlisle 1883, on the marriage certificate it says her farther was Joseph Kent, deceased, , master mariner. I have never found Kates birth and can't find her before 1881 although from the other census she is born c 1860 at first, she says born Liverpool in the 1911 census she says born at sea, I have looked on line to see if there's a way of tracing her father but everything I come across seems to need more information than I have. I did find a visitor Kate Kent with a Butcher family in the 1861 census that fitted her birth but nothing else, also a death for Joseph Henry Kent in 1869 at Nantwich only he was 81 so then found him in the 1861 census birth year 1788, with his wife Anne age 43, this would fit only he was a retired farmer . Any help will be much appreciated , thanking you in advance, Nikitah.
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Hi Nikitah,
Looking at the census is John Huddart the same person as Robert Huthart?
On the 1891 and 1901 Kate is recorded as being born in Manchester.
Who were the witnesses on the marriage cert as sometimes they can hold a clue?
Have you tried looking for a Catherine Kent?
JJ
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thank you JJ, yes that's Robert aka Huthart it gets very complicated, they move around in the hotel industry, Kate is in Manchester in 1881, I have a few possibilities for John/ Robert, his father was also Joseph, labourer, witness 1, William Allen Ure witness 2 Agnes Barrett , both Kate and John reside at Great Central Hotel Carlisle both 22 years, there are more mysteries for this family but I'll tell you about them later, :o I have the family in all the census after their marriage living at Grange Over Sands and Lancaster, and maybe J R Huddart's Death at Lancaster age 65 in 1925 and Katherine Huddart at Lancaster age 76 in 1935, but until I know for sure these are the ones I am looking for I don't want to waste money on death certificates, many thanks Nikitah.
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Ancestry has this set of records:
UK and Ireland, Masters and Mates Certificates, 1850-1927
which may help you. Beware because sometimes the search takes you not to the beginning of a man's record, but to the middle of it: worth scrolling backwards as well as forwards.
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thanks Graham for that, I am a member of Ancestry unfortunately no longer a paid up member only because I've been doing the Familytree for many years and I thought I had exhausted it, I wasn't aware of this Joseph Kent until I got the marriage certificate and as you can see this family don't make it easy , thank you for your help though its much appreciated. Nikitah
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might be a red herring
Liverpool baptisms
Joseph Henry Kent
son of Joseph Kent mariner and Elizabeth
of Sim Street I think 1st December 1861
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on an earlier baptism
for a William Henry Kent born November 1858 ,Liverpool his mothers name is Elizabeth Kent Rogers
father a mariner living Toxteth
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Lancs OPC has the surname for William Henry baptised 1858 as Kent-Rogers and father as Joseph Kent-Rogers.
Emeltom
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Also found a baptism for an John Alexander Kent Rogers 22 April 1860 Toxteth - parents Joseph Henry and Elizabeth Kent Rogers (Joseph a mariner) of 33 John St
GRO Ref John Alexander Kent Rogers - Mothers Maiden Name TILSTON W. Derby 8b 250
Kay
Added -Parents married 2 March 1857 Walton-On -The Hill - Joseph age 22 Elizabeth age 21
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Elizabeth, her children and her father are here in 1871 3796/16/24 living in Toxteth but there is no daughter, Kate.
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Thank you all so much , best I've had in along time, not sure about the Elizabeth, that doesn't seem to fit, their eldest daughter was Anne, and second daughter Edith Alice but a big definite for the Joseph Henry, they named their first son that. I'll note what you have all found and will be back, I have a update nattering at me. Many thanks Nikitah.
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Well I'm back, some update :o . Found this, www.theshipslist.com for anyone looking for marriages at sea, some captains names but no Kent. I thought I might be onto something in 1881 census with Frederick and Albert born Manchester nephews to John Kent, born Manchester , did a search and their parents where William and Elizabeth, another dead end, then a William Kent boarder age 20 a sailor born Ireland, living Liverpool, unfortunately that went nowhere back to the drawing board. If I knew for definite the J R Huddart and Katherine Huddart are mine I would be tempted to get there death certificates , at the moment there are too many ifs, Kate never uses Katherine and well what can I say about John or Robert or Huddart or Huthart ::) many thanks Nikitah.
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Thanks to Grahams suggestion , I now have from Ancestry, Joseph Kent's masters certificates, he was born in Swansea, 28 January 1831, that then leads me to his parents, William Edward Kent and Elizabeth, so far so good, now I can't find a marriage for the parents or anything on early census that fit, by my reckoning , he would only be 10 in 1841 so would expect him to be at home with William and Elizabeth, until I break down this wall I can't prove or disprove if this is my Joseph, forgot to say his number is 24923, any further help in breaking down this wall will be much appreciated. Nikitah
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1841 - Quay, Swansea. Parents not born in county, but children were
W Edwd Kent 38 - pawnbroker
Elizth Kent 38
Elizabeth Kent 1
W Edwd Kent 12
Josh Kent 10
Geo Kent 8
Jno Kent 6
Chas Kent 4
There's a newspaper report from 1847 noting that William Edward junior was washed overboard off Cape Horn the previous summer
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Haven't found any Kent births in Swansea yet to establish mother's maiden name
1851
William E Kent 48 - b Millbrook, Cornwall. Auctioneer
Elizabeth Kent 48 - b Bristol
George B Kent 18 - b Swansea, apprentice seaman
John S Kent 16 - b Swansea, writing clerk
Elizabeth Kent 10 - Brecon
George Dawkins 52 - lodger
HO107, 2466, 93, 11
This has helped find Elizabeth's birth. Mother's maiden name is Thomas
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some details of siblings' full names
Joseph Kent b 28 Mar 1831 baptised 1 Jan 1834 Saint Mary,Swansea
George Beale Kent b 13 Jan 1833 baptised 1 Jan 1834
John Joseph Stephens Kent baptised 14 Dec 1834
Charles Frederick Kent b 4 Dec 1836 baptised 15 Mar 1837
By 1861 William Edward is a schoolmaster in Bishopston, and daughter Elizabeth is a teacher
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Thanks Mabel,you are too fast for me , this looks like the Joseph Kent whose certificates I have and they too like messing about with names, i.e. William Edward is known as W Edward, Joseph, apparently was born John Joseph Stephens Kent, also known as Josh, so even if they are not mine they certainly have that in common, I may have found a death for William E Kent at Gower1866, so if this is him and he was a schoolmaster there maybe a report somewhere, I just hope this is all mine and not a red herring after all your hard work, many, many thanks,Nikitah
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Joseph Kent and John Joseph Stephens Kent are separate people - Joseph b 1831, John b 1834
They are both on 1841: Joseph is abbreviated as Josh, and John is abbreviated listed as Jno. John you will see is still at home in 1851 as a clerk
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Mabel thanks for the clarification ::) I think I have found William and Elizabeth's marriage 27 December 1827 at Temple Bristol, I need to link all these up to Kate, who if we are on the right track would be Joseph's daughter, the only time she mentions being born at sea is in the 1911 census, then from her marriage to John/ Robert Huthart/ Huddart when she tells us her father was Joseph Kent deceased, occupation, master mariner, they married at Carlisle June 8th 1883, both 22yrs old, John's father was also Joseph his occupation was labourer, so going by that she had no reason to make it up. Many thanks, Nikitah.
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Forget the Gower death. Looks like this Joseph Kent died at Dreadnought Seamen's Hospital, age 53 ?, 28 January 1882 of pneumonia, the death is on freebmd age 51, this would also fit with Kate's, Joseph being deceased at the time of her marriage in 1883, this Joseph Kent was on the "Mars" at the time of him being admitted to hospital, he was also recorded as being Master and his address was given as, Cross Head, Lower Hillgate, Does anyone know what will be recorded on a death certificate for 1882? in England?. Nikitah.