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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: lucymags on Monday 21 May 18 09:39 BST (UK)
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I received this as a PDF and created a jpeg via screenshot in order to lighten it up a bit, but that's not very clear either, so have attached both.
It's a (presumably civil) registration of the birth of a child of English parents in Heidelberg, whilst her father was head of an English college (Neuenheim) there. (Of some incidental interest, Oscar Wilde's sons boarded there for a while, after scandal broke in England!)
I can glean most of what it says, including the names (Henry Clapcott Girdlestone, wife Evelyn Sophia, of Pennington, Lymington, Hants, daughter Dorothy Mary Evelyn), but a bit confused by the dates and what the note on the side is all about. The earliest date I think I can see is 17th September - is this her birth date?
If there's anything else useful, I'd appreciate anything anyone can tell me.
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Hi,
I'm a bit confused, because for the day of brth it looks like "Viehrenzehnten". Whether it is vierzehnten (14th) with some extra squiggles or I'm seeing it completely wrong, I don't know...
Maybe davecapps can help - he is a true Meister at things like this. :)
In the cert itself, the little girl has not yet been named. As you have worked out, her name is shown in the note on the left, which I need to take a better look at on a bigger screen.
Karen
Edit: The note on the left is, as far as I can make out, an official addition (including Henry's occupation and full address) stating that the baby had been given the first names Dorothy Mary Evelyne.
It does look as though it says that the baby was born on the 17th September, but there is a weird line under the numbers which doesn't really belong there, and I still can't see "Siebzehnten" in the actual certificate.
Let's see what Dave makes of it!
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Hi Karen
Thanks for this. I know her name was Dorothy Mary Evelyn from other documents (and her mother's family had several Evelyns - the "e" at the end was perhaps a German version?!), and her parents' names, but the rest is pretty obscure to me. I need help with the transcription as well as translation on this one!
No rush - I won't be getting back to this record until tomorrow at least.
(Beautiful dog, btw - have I said that before? :) )
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The cert reads, "Siebenzehten September des Jahres tausend acht hundert neunzig und fünf Mittags um zwölf Uhr", i.e. 17th September 1895 at midday at 12:00.
Compare the "S" in "Siebenzehnten" to the "S" in "Seiner" in the line above.
Karen has correctly translated the note in the left margin.
Justin
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Thanks, Justin.
:)
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Slightly off-topic, but in case it comes up again:
siebzehnten / siebenzehnten ??
That was a surprise for me (even after years in Germany) so I looked it up, and it doesn*t come often, but it does (or did) come up now and then !
e.g. Christian Ludvig Ernst Stemann: Schleswigs Recht und Gerichtsverfassung im siebenzehnten Jahrhundert. T. van der Smissen, 1855, Seite 1 (zitiert nach Google Books).
It was probably shortened by common-usage" ... sechs-zehn, sieben-zehn, acht-zehn, ...".
There is something similar in english with "thir-teen (instead of three-teen, four-teen, fif-teen (instead of five-teen), six-teen, ...".
Although in english and german eleven and twelve (elf, zwölf) don't 'fit' in the "add -teen (-zehn) to 1-9 to get the "teenagers". Maybe from the french origins ?
Bob
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I totally agree with Justin and Karen´s translation is also correct.
Karen, the line under the 17 is the top stroke of the "K" in Kind
Dave
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@lucymags
Thanks - we think Alasdair is beautiful, too! :)
@Justin & Dave
Thanks for clearing things up.
I was thrown by the fact that the "S" in "Siebenzehnten" is absolutely nothing like the "S" in September at the top of the certificate!
@Bob
Good question!
This website is interesting:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/76007/why-it-eleven-twelve-instead-oneteen-twoteen
Karen
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Thank you all - much appreciated. :)
Just one more thing, please - am I correct in assuming that the bit after his name, ending in "No. 28" is their home address, which is the college? It's also on the main part of the form - Heidelberg, [...] Neuenheim, [...hofstrasse?] No. 28?
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Thank you all - much appreciated. :)
Just one more thing, please - am I correct in assuming that the bit after his name, ending in "No. 28" is their home address, which is the college? It's also on the main part of the form - Heidelberg, [...] Neuenheim, [...hofstrasse?] No. 28?
Yes it was their home address.
It says: wohnhaft (resident) in Heidelberg, Stadttheil (town district) Neuenheim, Mönchhofstrasse 28
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Thanks very much, davecapps!
(And thanks to the wonders of the interwebz, I can see it here: https://goo.gl/maps/ARXiHKDLpj52.)
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I suspect it may have been changed or even completely rebuilt since then. At least bits of it are much newer. But it's nice to get an idea!
Here is a potted history of the College:
http://www.heidelberg-college.de/history
(Henry doesn't get a mention, for some reason.)
and here is a website which contains scans of the College "magazines":
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/neuenheimer1895/0001/image
In November 1895, H. C. Girdlestone is mentioned on P.29 in the cricket results:
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/neuenheimer1895/0085/image
He is probably mentioned elsewhere, if you have the time to trawl through the pages... :-)
Karen
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Yes, actually when I googled the address, saw it was a nursing home now, and it does look extensively rebuilt (although possibly kept the same structure? - the roof looks older in style, at least).
Thanks for that - I had found that history and found that it had merged with Heidelberg College (which is now a German institution, but still with an English "rowing club"!), and all of the mentions in the magazine:
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/neuenheimer?navmode=fulltextsearch&action=fulltextsearch&ft_query=girdlestone
I've managed to find quite a bit now about the wandering Henry (or Harry as he was apparently called) - but he died quite suddenly of pneumonia at only 50, in Cape Town.