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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: birdlucas on Wednesday 23 May 18 12:41 BST (UK)
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Hi. It's my first time on here so I'm hoping someone might be able to help. I have been researching my Husbands birth family and have found that his birth Mother was in Winterton hospital asylum from at least 1939 until she died in 1992. The hospital has no records of why she was there and I can only assume after researching her other family members that they disowned her and sent her there after the baby was born. I read on some old posts on here that in 1962 these elderly patients were eventually housed in their only little village where they could live peacefully until their death and then, like this lady had a paupers funeral and was buried with someone else in a grave in Butterwick cemetery. It's a very sad story of this lady and the judgments made 80 years ago but I would dearly love to know more about the life of these residents from anyone who worked there and of course if someone actually knew Agnes Far(r)ish personally. I have the name of the lady who signed the death certificate who must have been a staff member but obviously that was 25 years ago so that would be difficult depending on her age. I hope someone may be able to help as I would really like to know more about this lady who is obviously a blood Grandmother to my children. Than you for reading.
Angela
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There is a Facebook page for Winterton Hospital https://en-gb.facebook.com/groups/21161941584/
Also https://www.countyasylums.co.uk/winterton-sedgefield-durham/
Stan
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The hospital has no records of why she was there and I can only assume after researching her other family members that they disowned her and sent her there after the baby was born.
Have you checked for records elsewhere? According to the Hospital Records Database (at National Archives, but no longer kept up to date) they are now at Durham County Records Office. See http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=316&hospital=winterton&town=&searchdatabase.x=0&searchdatabase.y=0
The catalogue at the Durham County Records Office site has lots of items relating to Winterton Hospital - see http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/article/10924?SearchType=Param&Variations=N&AllWords=winterton%20hospital&ImagesOnly=N
From a quick glance through these, I think the records you'd be most interested in are likely to be in the 1st, 4th and 8th deposits. There are far too many to list here, but patient records might be found in things like medical records, admission records, day books, and discharge records. There are also numerous administrative records, though these are less likely to have details about individual patients.
There will almost certainly be a closure period on most or all of these records, though if you can prove the death and your relationship that should help you to negotiate access. It would be wise to consult the record office staff about this before making a long journey to look at them.
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Thank you Stan I will certainly try that link.
Arthurk, I had tried the hospital for records held there and as you advised, they keep all those records at the county record offices but I had contacted Durham council prior to this post and for a fee they searched all the records and found nothing so I assume the hospital records would have been researched at the time. I have come to a dead end which is a pity as there are no other family members alive to ask. Thank you for your reply anyway.
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... they keep all those records at the county record offices but I had contacted Durham council prior to this post and for a fee they searched all the records and found nothing so I assume the hospital records would have been researched at the time.
That's unfortunate - given the number of records they seem to have, it seems odd that she doesn't get a mention. But I'm not familiar with these records at all, I only looked at the catalogue.
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It does seem very odd that there are no records, especially as she is clearly an inmate in 1939 so at the very least I would expect to find her in the index of female admissions.
Although from an earlier period, I obtained 2-pages of records via Durham County Records Office for a family member who was only there for 2 years. I think I'd be sending them a copy of the 1939 & asking them to re-check.
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I tried the facebook page that Stanmapstone suggested but I was told by their moderator that it is a closed forum for staff only which is unfortunate.
Jomot. I was told by the Durham records office that only a random 2% of all records were retained so you would have to be very lucky to find what you are looking for in that small percentage and unfortunately for me, my relative wasn't amongst those. The 1939 register states that she was a domestic servant rather than an unpaid one which many women were and that is all I have. She would have been in the hospital just a few years then. I'm going to try and get a book which was suggested to me so that might give me an insight to her life maybe.
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I think I'd be inclined to query that with the Record Office. The description of the records includes this:
The records, both administrative, committee minutes and medical case records, are a well-kept and complete series [my emphasis]. Unfortunately the early signed minutes of the committee (c.1857 - 1883) are now missing. Some of the case books were damaged by flooding, but most are in reasonable condition.
This can be found at http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4i/ near the top of the page; there are also useful notes under Medical Records part way down the page. This page refers to the first deposit of records, and I couldn't see anything similar about the later deposits, but it would be strange if they hadn't been kept on a similar basis.
There are well over 500 items relating to the hospital under reference H/Wi, including large numbers of case records, admission and discharge books etc. On the face of it, it looks as though it could be a fairly complete set, and I didn't see any mention of it being only a 2% sample. Or, supposing say 200 of these references relate to medical-type record books, are they saying that there were originally 10,000 of them?
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I agree with arthurk. It's possible that her full case notes haven't survived for whatever reason, but at the very least she should be mentioned in the admissions index, register of admissions, admissions day book and/or the general register of patients.
I would definitely ask them to re-check, making it clear that if no case file survives you would still like anything relating to her admission & stay.
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Hi This is the reply from the county record office concerning my research request so I'm not sure if this is the answer to your question Jomot and Arthuk or whether I should push them some more.
I checked the index to admissions to Winterton Hospital and located the entry for Agnes Farish, which confirmed that she was admitted on 29 May 1931 from the Jarrow area, admission number 23295. From 1913 the hospital case papers are filed by date of discharge or death, since you established that she was resident at Winterton in 1939 I checked the female discharge files from 1939 to 1945. Unfortunately I could find no records relating to Agnes Farish. Although (virtually) all case notes survive from the period up to 1945, from 1946 only a 2% sample of papers was preserved, and Agnes’ papers are not among those I then checked a series of indexes listing female patients resident at various dates, and it would appear that Agnes was in the hospital until at least1961 (the date of the final index). In the index covering 1956-1958 there is a note against her entry ‘Regraded to Vol. 6-5-58’. I am afraid that we hold no later records for patients at Winterton
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Thanks for posting that. It seems a reasonably full, though disappointing, explanation of why there's nothing to be found.
The only thing I can think of at present that you might ask them is if they could confirm that the admissions register is simply an index to other documents, or whether it also contains a summary of the patient's condition or the circumstances in which they were admitted.
Beyond that, do you have Agnes' death certificate, and does that offer any clues as to her time in Winterton?
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Yes I'll try that tomorrow when they are back at work. I have the death certificate and it just says usual address as Sedgefield Community hospital and was signed by a lady with her own address who I guess was a member of staff at the home as under 7(b) qualification, it just says 'causing the body to be buried' rather than Doctor or similar.
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Causing the deceased body to be buried means she was not just registering the death, this is the person who is giving the instructions to the undertaker and was doing the funeral arrangements.
Stan
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Then I guess Stan that she may have been a member of staff at Sedgefield who felt close to Agnes, I hope so anyway, pity I can't get hold of her.
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Hi
Jomot, I asked the Durham record office to recheck their findings because of the paragraph that you pointed out to me and this is their reply.
From 1913 Winterton case notes were kept as a number of sheets relating to each patient, and when the patient was discharged or died all their case notes were then filed in a discharges or deaths file for that year. As I explained in the Research Report, we could find no record of Agnes Farish among the female discharge files from 1939 to 1945, and since you know that she died in 1992 she could not be among the deaths files for that period. We did find evidence that Agnes was in the hospital until at least 1961, when the indexes that we hold cease. From 1946 a decision was made by the NHS to destroy all case notes apart from a 2% sample, and Agnes’ papers are not among that sample. This would mean that they were destroyed in their entirety, not just those from 1946. I am sorry you feel that the information on our website misled you and I will amend it to explain the post-1945 situation.
So it is true that all case files were destroyed but I have noticed that at least the former paragraph on their Winterton site has been amended now.
My only hope of gaining any information I think is from the person who signed the death certificate but I have no idea how to find her.
Thank you for reading this
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The two fuller emails do seem to clarify the situation, although it would have been helpful if the records office catalogue had been clearer from the outset.
Such a shame the records were destroyed - it's as if the 'powers that be' from the time decided her life, and those of others like her, was of no consequence. So sad.
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Yes Jomot, I quite agree it is a very sad story of one particular lady who was 'punished' the whole of her life, I feel for her and the others who were sent to Winterton in circumstances that were deemed unacceptable at the time. :( :(